Hardtail vs. Trem tone differences?

[SlappyTappy]

I've almost always played guitars with tremolos if I was given the option but I know many folks around these parts are real proponents of the hardtails. My question is what tonal difference do they offer? I have very little experience with them. Thanks.

 

[fbecir]

Good question. Steve Morse prefers hardtail bridges and he explains why here :
Ask Steve - Guitars, warming up, and Megadeth | Ask Steve Archive | Deep Purple

If the Master said so ...

 

[Smellybum]

The majority of my collection is hard tail - I find you get a little extra sustain - plus restringing is a no brainer - I do love trems, but the feel and sustain for me is higher up the want list.

I did an AB with a 25th Trem Vs Non Trem - both amazing, but couldn't beat a hard tail


Suppose some of it is 'where you've come from' - before I was a Les Paul guy, so maybe that's related, but find what's best for you I guess....

 

[Roubster]

I honestly dont think there is a drastic tone difference. They do sound different and I feel that hardtails do resonate more thereby giving you some more sustain (physics basically), but this does not mean that the trem models have a worse tone. I absolutely love my 2 Balls and they both have trems and I still get plenty of tone to die for and great sustain. It's really a matter of whether you will be using the trem or not I guess.

 

[D.K.]

As guys before me already said - the hardtails are twangier and more resonant (You notice that especially when playing unplugged), thus they feel more alive. However, it's nothing drastical, when plugged in the tone differences are subtle.

Besides that, I prefer hardtails for two reasons:

1) they are much more stable in tuning and less prone to string-breaking (obviously, because of the lack of the trem) - it's just so comfortale not to worry about going out of tune in the middle of a song...

2) The main reason, actually - when playing tremolo giutars, I find myself gripping the trem bar way too often to create some effects, hardtails make me use a much bigger vocabulary. I guess playing without trem, or learning licks that actually include trem effects on a hardtail (things by Vai, Satch ...) makes me develop finger tremolo and glide technics etc. So, in a way, a hardtail it is a handicap that, once you get around it, makes you think in different ways, resulting in a more musical playing.

 

[andynpeters]

As guys before me already said - the hardtails are twangier and more resonant (You notice that especially when playing unplugged), thus they feel more alive.

Personally I would say the exact opposite, though the only A/B test I can do is with my Strats.......not that I ever use a tremolo....some of my guitars just happen to have them. Maybe the trem springs add some kind of reverb effect....I guess Eric C could get hardtails if he wanted, but prefers blocked trem guitars.

Buy one of each!!

 

[D.K.]

Personally I would say the exact opposite, though the only A/B test I can do is with my Strats.......not that I ever use a tremolo....some of my guitars just happen to have them. Maybe the trem springs add some kind of reverb effect....I guess Eric C could get hardtails if he wanted, but prefers blocked trem guitars.

Buy one of each!!

What I said was just based on my experience with the Morse trem/non-trem, 20-th silo trem/non-trem, and silo trem/non-trem. But it's not that I wanted to compare myself to EC or AL (who also uses trem version without using a trem)

 

[andynpeters]

What I said was just based on my experience with the Morse trem/non-trem, 20-th silo trem/non-trem, and silo trem/non-trem. But it's not that I wanted to compare myself to EC or AL (who also uses trem version without using a trem)

Obviously the type of guitar will make a big difference....used to own a trem SS, but it had a maple neck so never sure where all the differences came from between that & my rosewood hardtail. Depends on the type of trem too I suppose. I've never tried a hardtail strat.....my ASS has a trem and seems very resonant & twangy to me....but again I've never A/Bd it with the hardtail version

 

[Hendog]

I learned on a hardtail and when I got my first trem I was let down. If you do a bend on a string, the others go out of tune. So I could no longer do multi string bends. Also, there is not the same stability with the notes.

Of course my main axe is a Petrucci and I have sense become comfortable with trems and floating trems.

 

[Spudmurphy]

Horses for courses.
I played a Les Paul since 73 - then went to a trem AL in 2005.
I can't really A/B my hardtail Al with my trem Al - they are different guitars in other ways.
and that's why I'm not 100% convinced that hardtails resonate more than trem guitars.
A/b'ing one guitar with another is not an exact science, since it's unlikely that 2 guitars would sound the same anyway.
As has already been said EC uses a trem Strat - does he feel they sustain more?

Albert also uses a floating trem guitar - he uses the trem and also has no problems when he bends.

I like both!!

 

[PaoloGilberto]

good point, than why almost everyone says that JP for ex stays perfectly in tune even after bends and stuff !?

I learned on a hardtail and when I got my first trem I was let down. If you do a bend on a string, the others go out of tune. So I could no longer do multi string bends. Also, there is not the same stability with the notes.

Of course my main axe is a Petrucci and I have sense become comfortable with trems and floating trems.

 

[metalmarty]

I can't say anything about tone-differences. There are too many variables in construction, woods used, type of trem, saddle material,pickup-heights, the way your tube-amp behaves on any given day, etc. Sustain-wise in general I would say hardtails are a bit better but also that isn't carved in stone. I've had excellent sustain even from Floyd-equipped guitars with excellent stability while bending strings. Hell, my floyded Silo does a very nice Brothers in Arms with all the long notes etc. I've had dark sounding trem-equipped guitars in comparison with the hardtail-versions and trem-equipped guitars with more high end then it's hardtail sibling. I've had a high-end neckthrough hardtail that didn't sustain noticably better then the great trem-equipped strat I had. It did have a nice dark character.

In a well constructed axe, I don't normally discern any significant negative impact on tone. For me, it's just one simple question: do I want or need a whammy-bar on this guitar? Usually, that's a yes.

 

[andynpeters]

Never quite sure why "sustain" is such a Holy Grail....especially when all the current superguitarists appear to play 100 notes to the bar. How often does the length of time a note sustains for really make a big difference?
I concur with the bending thing, but then I guess people use the strengths & weaknesses of their guitar to their own advantage....Hank Marvin wouldn't be able to do half his stuff on a hard tail ....

 

[kbaim]

Good question. Steve Morse prefers hardtail bridges and he explains why here :
Ask Steve - Guitars, warming up, and Megadeth | Ask Steve Archive | Deep Purple

If the Master said so ...

I clicked on this and i'm reminded again why i like steve so much. He's just thought things through so carefully and completely. Then explains things in such a sharing and informative way.

I can't remember reading anything he's ever said where theres even been a hint of ego.

Tommy is pretty lucky to be able to work and hang with him. Wouldnt mind hearing tommy's opinion on this topic too, as he's a remarkable player as well

 

[Roubster]

I was sort of inspired by this thread to set up my Silo Special to have the trem flush with the body instead of floating. I just wanted to hear how it would affect the tone. After a full set-up and a set of fresh strings, there was definitely a noticeable difference in the resonance. I do not attribute this to the strings, because the ones I replaced were not even that old. I think the vibration of the strings is transferred better throughout the body of the guitar by having the bridge directly making full contact. There are many aspects to what influences the tone, and Steve's analysis is really great. I've also changed saddles on a few EBMMs before from the vintage saddles to solid block saddles, and that has a pretty decent impact on the tone itself. I guess the bottom line is that everyone has to figure what works for their ears the best.

 

[Hendog]

good point, than why almost everyone says that JP for ex stays perfectly in tune even after bends and stuff !?

huh?

 

[Roubster]

Yea, I dont know what you are talking about with the JP getting out of tune. These guitars stay in tune real good if they are set up properly. The only thing that happens while bending a string is that the rest of the strings go slightly flat...thats the nature of having a floating trem, or a trem flush with the body that does not have such a large spring tension. This is what Hendog was talking about I believe.

 

[straycat113]

I cant really decipher any drastic difference in loss of tone with a guitar with a stop tail or one with a trem, especially when they are cranked up at a high volume. If you have a stoptail with single coils of course it is going to sound a bit twangy compared to one that has humbuckers, also a properly set trem should not cause strings that have been stretched to go out of tune.

 

[dg5150]

Horses for courses.
I played a Les Paul since 73 - then went to a trem AL in 2005.
I can't really A/B my hardtail Al with my trem Al - they are different guitars in other ways.
and that's why I'm not 100% convinced that hardtails resonate more than trem guitars.
A/b'ing one guitar with another is not an exact science, since it's unlikely that 2 guitars would sound the same anyway.
As has already been said EC uses a trem Strat - does he feel they sustain more?

Albert also uses a floating trem guitar - he uses the trem and also has no problems when he bends.

I like both!!

+1 !!

Doug

 

[Barny]

I think sometimes the tendancy is to think more wood = more tone/resonance so as the hardtail does not have a trem cavity it will sound better, like a lot of people have said im not 100% on that one. For me it is a matter of personal taste, almost every guitar I own and all the Musicman guitars I own are all hardtail as personally I never use a trem and prefer the feel of a hardtail guitar.

I did own a Silo with a Trem and I didnt notice any huge tonal difference between it and my hardtail model (which ultimately is why I sold the trem equipped one).

For a long time I would buy trem models and think "well its there if i need it" but I never did and ended up blocking them anyway, hence the move to hardtails.