Help! Tuning Sharp and Flat?

[OU812]

I need some help/advice here from the tech gurus on the forum. I've noticed this problem (not sure if its a problem but lets just call it that) on several guitars I've owned (all with a flush mount FR) including my one and only guitar I own now, my Axis. Here's what happens....

I'll string up my guitar with any type of string be it EB or another brand makes no difference. I stretch them out and tune them up to E flat. Everything is fine and the strings are settled. I won't play my guitar for a few days, pick it up and all strings flat by lets 5 cents. All of them exactly the same pretty much. I'll retune with fine tuners and rock out. Not play for 3-4 days, come back and they are now sharp by for example 7 cents, again all equally sharp more or less.

Is this a string issue? A neck issue? I've owned several guitars and its always been the same. Doesn't matter if its in a case, sitting on my bed, where ever. I've noticed this with a 1983 USA Kramer Pacer I used to have, my Axis and others. All were not cheap guitars and none had buzz issues. All i did was retune and done.

Is this normal? is it the strings moving cause of weather changes? or the neck moving?

 

[ScreaminFloyd]

That is odd. I detune to E flat with 10's and float the trem on my Silo and dont have any problems at all. How many springs are you using? If only 3, I would add another spring. This still sounds odd though.

 

[Norrin Radd]

Probably some weather changes and other things.

I used to have that issue too. Then I heard about what Bill Lawrence recommends. Put on new strings. Don't lock your Floyd. Tune up 1/2 step from where you play. Like you, I play a half step down so I tune new strings to standard tuning at A440. Then, and this is the important part, LEAVE IT ALONE for 24 hours. Yup. A full day. After that, tune to playing pitch. At no point during this process should you stretch and pull the strings like crazy - bad idea. I read about the physics of why, but I don't have a degree in metallurgy to explain it well. Just trust in the process.

SO, after that day, tune to where you play and go on from there. There will be slight tweaks needed as you play and with weather changes, but the severe swings should disappear. I've been doing this for about two years, and it works!

Remember too, during seasonal changes, the neck will move. Some more, some less. I've found that a simple tweak at the truss wheel can save a lot of tuning headaches. If I notice more than one string is out of tune, my first action is check the bow in the neck. Especially this time of year. Give it a try and good luck!

 

[ScoobySteve]

Where do you live? This can absolutely be a climate issue. When I had my 25th in Cali, which is consistently dry and warm all year, my hard tail, locking tuner 25th was a champion of tuning stability.

When I moved to Busan, Korea, which can range from 100 degree weather at 85% humidity to 15 degrees and dry as a desert wreaked havoc on my tuning stability.

 

[OU812]

I used to live close to Toronto Ontario, which can get very humid in the summers and cold as hell in the winter. 90% humidity to freezing temps and dry cold. I live in Prague, Czech Republic now. I bought my Axis while still in Canada in Dec 2010 and took it with me when I moved here in March. Unbolted it, neck in the carry on luggage, body in checked luggage Left the case behind, had to but have a really good gig bag.

I just tightened the truss rod about 1/4 turn about an hour ago after making this thread and seems to be playing better now as well. I haven't touched the truss rod since the spring.

Norrin, thanks for the info I will try that next string change. I think if the neck was moving on me I'd not only feel it but hear it with fret buzz however action and everything else is the same, just tuning goes out. I think its the way I'm installing and stretching the strings. I pull up off the fret board gently at the 12th fret each string individually, retune, pull up, retune etc 3x and can see the strings settling. Nut is unlocked of course. I'll try your method and see how it goes.

I monitor the neck bow and action each time I pick up my guitar and like I said its the same. I've had finished and unfinished necks, and none moved I never have had a problem with buzzing on any of my guitars...just this.

 

[DrKev]

I won't play my guitar for a few days, pick it up and all strings flat by lets 5 cents. All of them exactly the same pretty much. I'll retune with fine tuners and rock out. Not play for 3-4 days, come back and they are now sharp by for example 7 cents, again all equally sharp more or less.

Is this normal? is it the strings moving cause of weather changes? or the neck moving?

This sounds totally normal to me. Mostly temperature changes. If there is no noticeable change in string buzz or action, just re-tune and rock!

Remember the strings and the woods react to a temperature change at different speeds and amounts. No instrument on the planet will ever stay perfectly in tune over a period of days unless the room they are in is kept at fairly constant conditions.

 

[ScoobySteve]

Probably some weather changes and other things.

I used to have that issue too. Then I heard about what Bill Lawrence recommends. Put on new strings. Don't lock your Floyd. Tune up 1/2 step from where you play. Like you, I play a half step down so I tune new strings to standard tuning at A440. Then, and this is the important part, LEAVE IT ALONE for 24 hours. Yup. A full day. After that, tune to playing pitch. At no point during this process should you stretch and pull the strings like crazy - bad idea. I read about the physics of why, but I don't have a degree in metallurgy to explain it well. Just trust in the process.

This is awesome advice. I used to smack around my strings to relieve the elasticity as soon as possible, but once I started playing classical, I learned the importance of allowing the elasticity of your strings expand gradually, especially on nylon strings.

Cheers Norrin

 

[BrickGlass]

This is awesome advice. I used to smack around my strings to relieve the elasticity as soon as possible, but once I started playing classical, I learned the importance of allowing the elasticity of your strings expand gradually, especially on nylon strings.

Cheers Norrin

Yeah, well I've heard the opposite. From more than one source I've heard it is a bad idea to tune sharper than normal and then drop it down after some time passes. I've heard both sides of that story and I have no clue which one is better than the other, if one even is better than the other.

 

[OU812]

I put on a fresh set of string, tuned to E standard and let it sit for about 8hrs or so with no stretching. Couldn't wait any longer as I wanted to play the guitar. Tuned down the guitar to Eb, set up the D-Tuna and locked the nut. Its been stable with only a slight drop (couple cents) since. I noticed the older the strings get the more it changes tuning like what I talked about. I'll keep an eye on it and see if this method helps.

 

[Jack FFR1846]

Both the neck and the guitar changes with temperature. This includes the change from your 98.6 degree fingers touching the strings. When I tune up, the first thing I do is rub the strings. I find that my Axis does what you're describing more than any of my other guitars. It also stays in tune better than any of my other guitars, once it's tuned, played for a bit and retuned.

 

[ScoobySteve]

Yeah, well I've heard the opposite. From more than one source I've heard it is a bad idea to tune sharper than normal and then drop it down after some time passes. I've heard both sides of that story and I have no clue which one is better than the other, if one even is better than the other.

That's interesting. I guess the best way to go is just simply stick with what has been working for you. YMMV sort of deal. I think tuning too sharp may be counter productive. But as Norrin and I have said going up a semitone is not so bad. I tune up 35 cents and let it sit for a day. I think the goal in theory is to set your strings to a level of elasticity that is a place where you will go when playing via bending and trem usage. Then tune down a day later.

The idea behind tuning up is that letting your guitar sit a bit sharp above your standard set up allows your strings to expand at a consistent rate. The idea is that wailing on a fresh set can cause unevening warping and cause stability issues in the long run.

The guitar is an interesting thing. I don't think there is a single dogmatic method to anyone thing. But its nice to have alternative perspectives out there.

 

[DrKev]

I noticed the older the strings get the more it changes tuning like what I talked about. I'll keep an eye on it and see if this method helps.

Absolutely! Old strings can't stay in tune as well as new strings. They lose their ability to accurately return to pitch. I suspect that a LOT of people could changing their strings more frequently. For me, I change after roughly 20 hours playing time, I can feel and hear when it's time to take them off.

When I put strings on I tune them to standard pitch or a little below and then I grab the string in my right hand and stretch it. Not too hard but enough. Naturally the tuning drops when you stretch a brand-new string so I tune it back up and stretch again. I repeat the process until the string doesn't go out of tune any more (or very little). Usually three to five stretches does the job. And it's fast too.

Tune-stretch-tune-stretch-tune-stretch- *DONE*!

Then I lubricate the nut slots and where the strings contact the saddles and I'm ready to go. 25 years I've been doing that and it works for me. I really don't see any reason to have a guitar our of action for 24 hours just because I changed the strings!