Custom music man guitars?

[Past EBMM Owner]

This thread makes me laugh. The OP asked a direct question, and while some answered it directly, others took a different approach, saying things like "Aren't all Music Mans custom made?", "well they don't don't have a custom shop per say, but they are "Custom Made"....complete and utter B.S. The answer is simply NO. And, what's with this "custom made"? They're made like any other manufacturer, to exacting specifications for that model...unless they are doing a special run that demonstrate a change in features to the original model. In that sense, you might use that terminology, but even that would be a stretch, using the word "custom" for special runs.

For me, a "Custom Build" is just that. A customer being able to dictate what features they actually want in a particular model. This is the reason that I do not own an EBMM today. I've owned them in the past, but I always found something that I didn't like with the various models that I owned in the past which later led me to sell them. I'm sure a lot of you would just say, "Well, I don't think EBMM guitars need any changes.", as hinted above. That would be a dumb statement, as everyone has their own idea of what they like in features. I myself like the way they build their guitars, but take issue with specs on just about everyone of them.

 

[beej]

That would be a dumb statement, as everyone has their own idea of what they like in features.

I don't know about "dumb" ... some people like custom items but that doesn't mean it makes financial sense for manufacturers to offer one-offs and custom builds. The economics are different; you'd certainly have to charge quite a bit more (as many companies do).

But it's moot, since MM doesn't do custom builds.

For me, a "Custom Build" is just that. A customer being able to dictate what features they actually want in a particular model. This is the reason that I do not own an EBMM today.

Well it's a good thing there's more choice in the market than ever before. You should buy what you want. What most guys that argue about it don't get is that EBMM doesn't want to be all things to all people. They have a particular niche, and they're very good at what they do.

Btw, given all of the stuff you've said about Sterling and the forum on rig-talk, I'm pretty surprised to see you posting here.

 

[Big Poppa]

Beej...Cant win. Dont try. I dont understand why someone comes into a house that they bash ....Im just trying to make guitars and basses in the USA. I make guitars. IF you like them perfect ...if you like others great! To make a career bashing me and then hanging out on my forum is just a little funny

This is such a tough subject...first off no matter what some say I would love to make everything for everybody. It isn't possible to do everything at the price we do it at. On the surface straycat makes a great point..."why not just add 3 neck shapes?_ No big deal....except take the stingray.....I think there are a thousand ways you can buy one...now three thousand.
Adding one change o a line doubles the options...

I spent a wonderful day with John Suhr about ten days ago. we are doing a home and home...Two companies that compete but share and respect each other greatly. What John and Steve and all do there is just fabulous....seriously...the guitars the pedals the amps unreal. I can't do that. My model is different. John noted that what we deliver at the price was something he noticed....Very soon they will come to our factory and we will return the favor. Whats my point? There are many guys out there making guitars....for awhile. Companies like EBMM and Suhr have managed to find a model to keep the doors open. I can't offer all the choices that they do....and maybe there are a few things that they would find difficult....

The search button covers this pretty well....I could retype how one option across the line impacts us but my hands would hurt from it and I have already done it.....

BTW Past EB user...you can always call 18005432255 and talk to me directly.

 

[Big Poppa]

I wanted to add..Straycat...I dont know what the connection between R and D and a custom shop. The fact that we work on the new idea or the Stallion is separate from the production floor and product flow. The guitar Dargie and Dudley designed will be made because the dealers and distributors accepted it...it will have fewer options that any model as the cost and steps involved vs investment in new machines and vs projected sales has to balance out.

 

[PeteDuBaldo]

I wanted to add..Straycat...I dont know what the connection between R and D and a custom shop. The fact that we work on the new idea or the Stallion is separate from the production floor and product flow. The guitar Dargie and Dudley designed will be made because the dealers and distributors accepted it...it will have fewer options that any model as the cost and steps involved vs investment in new machines and vs projected sales has to balance out.

I'd like a few of those new guitars to showcase at our brand new store. Did I just say that?!?!

 

[Big Poppa]

Yeah Pete! good on ya!

 

[Warg Master]

Oh, Pete, I didn't realize you were opening a new store IN MY HOUSE!

 

[Tanax]

Beej...Cant win. Dont try. I dont understand why someone comes into a house that they bash ....Im just trying to make guitars and basses in the USA. I make guitars. IF you like them perfect ...if you like others great! To make a career bashing me and then hanging out on my forum is just a little funny

This is such a tough subject...first off no matter what some say I would love to make everything for everybody. It isn't possible to do everything at the price we do it at. On the surface straycat makes a great point..."why not just add 3 neck shapes?_ No big deal....except take the stingray.....I think there are a thousand ways you can buy one...now three thousand.
Adding one change o a line doubles the options...

I spent a wonderful day with John Suhr about ten days ago. we are doing a home and home...Two companies that compete but share and respect each other greatly. What John and Steve and all do there is just fabulous....seriously...the guitars the pedals the amps unreal. I can't do that. My model is different. John noted that what we deliver at the price was something he noticed....Very soon they will come to our factory and we will return the favor. Whats my point? There are many guys out there making guitars....for awhile. Companies like EBMM and Suhr have managed to find a model to keep the doors open. I can't offer all the choices that they do....and maybe there are a few things that they would find difficult....

The search button covers this pretty well....I could retype how one option across the line impacts us but my hands would hurt from it and I have already done it.....

BTW Past EB user...you can always call 18005432255 and talk to me directly.

A very good reply, IMO.

Out of curiousity, for someone like me who has no experience with running a business, would it really be *that* much difference in amount of options if you provided an option of Roasted Maple/Rosewood Neck/Regular Maple to, for instance, the JP-line?

To me, it sounds like a basic option, like the Piezo or Matched Headstock that already exists. Since the necks are screwed on the guitar AFTER the body is made it should be fairly simple to just choose another neck-wood. Sure, it would probably mean that there will be 3^3 new combinations but that isn't so much, relatively speaking.

But then again, I have no idea which is kinda the reason I'm asking Hopefully you won't take the question as being annoying or nosy, just wondering

 

[gregmusi]

If not having a custom shop means EBMM can continue to make very high quality products in the USA that cost much less than other "premium" made in USA guitars... than by all means please continue

 

[beej]

The search button covers this pretty well....I could retype how one option across the line impacts us but my hands would hurt from it and I have already done it.....

Tanax- this one comes up every so often ... BP's weighed in on it many times. In short, every guitar has options which you multiply every time you add a choice. Add that to the entire catalog of options for every instrument made, keep track of the codes for production, inventory, dealers, support ... it adds time and cost.

(Then we get upset when our local shop doesn't even know that an option exists!)

 

[fbecir]

Henry Ford said "Any customer can have a car painted any color that he wants so long as it is black".

Music Man gives us already a lot of options but you have to draw the line somewhere otherwise it's time consuming. Small companies can do more easily custom jobs but it's more expensive. It's an equilibrium between price / quality / options.
Besides Music Man offers some special series like the Dargie, the Roasted Necks, and so on ... So, we cannot complain !

 

[Warg Master]

So, we cannot complain !

That's not true. People will always find something to complain about.

 

[Tanax]

Tanax- this one comes up every so often ... BP's weighed in on it many times. In short, every guitar has options which you multiply every time you add a choice. Add that to the entire catalog of options for every instrument made, keep track of the codes for production, inventory, dealers, support ... it adds time and cost.

(Then we get upset when our local shop doesn't even know that an option exists!)

Oh well, alright. I get the hint. I'll drop it.
(I would just really want a RW Neck, haha )

 

[beej]

Haha ... I want a roasted one Every year there are a few goodies available, so I just keep my eyes peeled.

 

[ScoobySteve]

I may sound like a broken record but I guess I'll dime in my opinion

I don't understand the Custom Shop idea at all. I guess that makes me a dweeb but it really doesn't for several reasons.

First, I feel like it diminishes the company's vision and personal expression by tailoring every nuance to a specific player. It defeats the purpose of having a diverse set of makers in the market. Akin to forcing one vineyard to create all the varietals and BLends to his needs. Different makers, climates and berries make diffferent wines, if you follow the analogy. Think of all the famous iconic and coveted guitars. Very few are signature or customs. Most are production models.

Second and most importantly, and maybe it's just me, but tailoring an instrument to suit yourself seems bizarre largely because I spent years of my youth playing piano and trumpet. The player adapts to the instrument. Not the other way around. Having instructors literally hit proper posture, orientation and technique into me drilled that idea home quickly. Think of the variations a piano or trumpet or violin or cello have and compare them to the variety of what we have in modern electric guitars. The design of more traditional instruments had the single purpose of creating the best Possible sound. The uncomfortable sizes, grips, and postures were something to just get used to and get over.

So with that said it really makes me curious when people say things like," I loved EBMMS guitars but couldn't get used to the shape of the neck." as if the challenge was insurmountable. Had I said something similar to my trumpet instructors of my youth they'd just laugh at me and tell me to keep practicing. I dunno.

Anyways. Custom shops are silly and aren't necessary. If you like it cool, but if you really think about it, they only came around as the market began to get really saturated, which means.......

 

[Benji Peterson]

*
Second and most importantly, and maybe it's just me, but tailoring an instrument to suit yourself seems bizarre largely because I spent years of my youth playing piano and trumpet. The player adapts to the instrument. Not the other way around. Having instructors literally hit proper posture, orientation and technique into me drilled that idea home quickly. *Think of the variations a piano or trumpet or violin or cello have and compare them to the variety of what we have in modern electric guitars. The design of more traditional instruments had the single purpose of creating the best Possible sound. The uncomfortable sizes, grips, and postures were something to just get used to and get over.*

So with that said it really makes me curious when people say things like," I loved EBMMS guitars but couldn't get used to the shape of the neck." as if the challenge was insurmountable. Had I said something similar to my trumpet instructors of my youth they'd just laugh at me and tell me to keep practicing. I dunno.*

I think that's an excellent point. The pickiness can really be a distraction from the whole purpose of making great music. I would reinforce this point by saying even if we were all violinists of varying skill playing real Stradivarius violins some among us would manage to complain. Ha.*
Another point that I think is worth mentioning is that at the end of the day the EBMM guys literally put their name on the guitars. I think they are scrutinizing more than anyone the level of quality in every instrument. Not only this but each guitar and bass has to look and feel right. Some guitar companies with full-blown custom shops turn out some real 'dogs'. By giving someone that has no sense of taste free reign to design what they want the company runs the risk of a tarnished image. Mercedes and BMW will not put a yellow leather interior in a green car. They just wouldn't. It makes the company look tacky and cheap. I drool when I look at EBMM guitars and can honestly say I've never seen a 'dog'. They're beautiful and done with precise execution both in quality and style. I say A+ to you guys for doing with class what others have no business doing. When Big Poppa has love and support for guys that will build what you want then go right ahead and go with the other guy. For me, I'm glad he sticks firmly to his guns. I think we're all better off for it and I for one am proud of my beautiful ('dog'-free) collection!*

 

[DrKev]

The pickiness can really be a distraction from the whole purpose of making great music.

While very true, there are number of reasons why people buy guitars. Playing music is just one of them. Some people are collectors. Some people are 'tone-chasers', searching for the (unobtainable) perfection. Some just buy expensive guitars for the 'prestige' or to be different...

 

[FantasyMetal]

Honestly, I don't think I could order a Custom Shop guitar from any manufacturer because by the time it came I would want something different lol.

 

[straycat113]

I dont get where having custom options can in anyway hurt a companies reputation? Sure I have seen some dreadful CS guitars by other builders but as Paul Simon sang-One mans ceiling is another mans floor. If an Axis were being offered as a LE I am certain you would have guys divided on whether the top should be a quilt, or a flame, and maybe 10% would hope for a solid finish. I am perfectly fine with the way things are outside of wishing there was an option for necks and for me personally that only pertains to the JP as every other neck is just fine in my hands.But I would be lying if I said I did not wish a JP model was offered with a neck as chunky as an Axis or an AL. I do not run a guitar company so I dont know what that would entail and I am certain Sterling has much more expertise in what he does than I will ever have in this lifetime. Oh and a BFR Pinkburst AL HH would also do the trick-hint #777 lol.

 

[Big Poppa]

Guys you are confusing so many issues and beating a horse than has been rode more than a merry go round.

Stray...Arrrgh

I just explained that one change is doubling the potential. Please for fun instead of me having to do it for you look at stingray and see how many more skus programs and issues we get with one addition. it is a huge number

Scooby makes such a good point from a branding standpoint...if every music man was custom what would we be? when someone thought of us what would come to mind? What is the used market for one million one offs?

The second point is that now Stray and others dont seem to understand the basic philosophy of our signature guitars. It isnt what I want Stray Cat wants or a banned user that keeps coming back here wants...ITS WHAT THE ARTIST WANTS.............

None of you seem to want to hear why what you want wont sell to the masses or why we cant make signature guitars different from the artist...
Please search custom shop threads and when you come up for ait hopefully we can convert one at a time that we would be out of business selling blank canvases every day.