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guitardan

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Mutli-Fx and modelers are great for the shear versatility of creating a sound for a specific style. Don't expect that it (any) will match the touch, response and feel of a real good tube amp. They have their place though....I have a Boss GT-6 that's great for at home practice, recording, or gig that call for going direct. On the other side, I have my tube amps and some choice pedals that help define my sound. Do expect to spend a lot of time tweaking, balancing, and re-tweaking. For some that's half the fun, for others it's purely frustrating....
 

Eric O'Reilly

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I think from now on im going all analog, good quality pedals for modulation and time based effects, and the drive/gain/distortion will come from the amp of choice, whether it be from preamp tube distortion or power tube breakup, that is the way to real tone for live use.However.... when playing at home on headphones multi effects/amp modeling is great! Even for direct recording it sounds fantastic.
 

Eric O'Reilly

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Without a real tube amp in your signal, you dont get the sensitivity, touch response when rolling down the volume or picking softly, there is simply no substitute, now ive never tried axefx or kemper, im sure they are great but it cant feel the same, it might sound almost identical, but the experience would probably be different.
 

balance

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Without a real tube amp in your signal, you dont get the sensitivity, touch response when rolling down the volume or picking softly, there is simply no substitute, now ive never tried axefx or kemper, im sure they are great but it cant feel the same, it might sound almost identical, but the experience would probably be different.

Try the Kemper...seriously...try it. :)
 

ksandvik

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San Jose California
I'm sure Kempers and AxeFX are fine, but if they are the same as a tube amp, I just take a tube amp to the gig. If they were 10x better soundwise, I would reconsider it. I don't need fifteen+ different amp sounds for gigs, one clean, crunch and lead. I could even do that with a single-channel amp even if I prefer my Bogner Shiva dual-channel setup.

Now, for modulation purposes, delay, chorus et rest, digital effects are nice. For dirt, I again prefer analog pedals.

But we live in good times as anyone could pick and choose their configurations and most configs are affordable, too.
 

KevinUK

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Jul 30, 2008
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All of us guitar players who use effects go through this loop, and in my case its before every gig, so I deal with it by having a boss effects board loaded with individual pedals and also a TC Nova and then which ever way the wind blows as I leave for a gig helps me make the choice.

BTW the Nova really does everything that the individuals do and more and without the potential of connectivity problems caused by loads of jumper leads.
 

Craiguitar

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May 21, 2008
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New Waltham, UK
I'm sure Kempers and AxeFX are fine, but if they are the same as a tube amp, I just take a tube amp to the gig. If they were 10x better soundwise, I would reconsider it. I don't need fifteen+ different amp sounds for gigs, one clean, crunch and lead. I could even do that with a single-channel amp even if I prefer my Bogner Shiva dual-channel setup.

Now, for modulation purposes, delay, chorus et rest, digital effects are nice. For dirt, I again prefer analog pedals.

But we live in good times as anyone could pick and choose their configurations and most configs are affordable, too.

I agree entirely. If you're able to get through your gig with minimal sounds, and equipment do it. Then there is no need for the bells and whistles, and there's less to go wrong :)

Nevertheless, I play in a covers band as the only guitarist (no keyboards in the band) so I have to cover a LOT of ground sonically. My Axe-Fx II does this brilliantly, because I can choose the right amp for the song, i.e. U2 =AC30, Floyd = Hiwatt, etc... and those amp models are deadly accurate, both in sound & feel due to the improved dynamics. Plus there's the control of effects / morphing, multiple sounds within one song and so on. I have to say I can't imagine going back to a 'simple' amp & pedals rig to do this kind of gig ever again.

In short, do whatever it takes to get the job done, YOUR way.

And don't listen to the tube amp snobs either. A tube amp is a relatively simple thing, containing electronic components, all subject to the laws of physics. There is NO magic going on in there. Just because vacuum tubes are non-linear doesn't make them special. Signal goes in and signal comes out. What happens in between can be replicated digitally. It just takes plenty of CPU to do it, that's all.
 

Eric O'Reilly

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I am not a ( tube snob) and use some digital gear, and give much respect to the advances that were made in modeling(some company's) but the feel of a natural tube amp on the cusp of breaking up, the push of a clean tube signal, say a fender twin, is something that is amazing and organic,and that is already perfected, IMHO.
 

Eric O'Reilly

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No i don't, disagree with the laws of physics...... I just know which sound and feel I like better, personally. Nothing more. There is no right and wrong with music, it is an art form and whichever medium you choose is your own, like a painter using say acrylic paints as opposed to traditional oil paints which are time tested, and after about the last 100 years now acrylic paints also are time tested and true, just different, thats all.
 
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Craiguitar

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I am not a ( tube snob) and use some digital gear, and give much respect to the advances that were made in modeling(some company's) but the feel of a natural tube amp on the cusp of breaking up, the push of a clean tube signal, say a fender twin, is something that is amazing and organic,and that is already perfected, IMHO.

I love the sound of a good quality driven tube amp as much as anyone. Hours of fun :)
All I'm saying is, that already perfected sound you mention is not the result of some magic thing, its just electronic components put together in the right way. The result is quite capable of being replicated in the digital domain, whether or not you actually require it. Many are happy with the actual amp. But it's just a fact that most manufacturers of digital gear haven't spent the extra $ and gone the extra mile. There are only a couple that have, Chase & Kemper. Even they are still tweaking it. In a few years time it won't even be a debate anymore. There will always be purists. This is true in any pursuit. But you can't argue with science.
 

mikeller

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The other guitarist in my band just recently bought a Kemper and is having a great time with it. I haven't yet had the opportunity to have it demoed to me on a one-on-one - only during a gig when it is difficult to judge how good it can sound. Personally I have very little interest in one - I have too little time these days to invest into re-thinking my rig. It intrigues me, but I am skeptical too. I have heard plenty of quality keyboards with Hammond B3 patches - but none have the overall richness and quality of a real B3 and leslie cabinet and that likely has something to with tubes, wood etc. Heck of a lot easier to carry though, LOL
 

Craiguitar

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May 21, 2008
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No i don't, disagree with the laws of physics...... I just know which sound and feel I like better, personally. Nothing more. There is no right and wrong with music, it is an art form and whichever medium you choose is your own, like a painter using say acrylic paints as opposed to traditional oil paints which are time tested, and after about the last 100 years now acrylic paints also are time tested and true, just different, thats all.

This is true. I still listen to music on vinyl. I know that it is lower quality than say a CD, but there is something mellifluous about that sound. Here's the rub though. It's technically possible to make CDs or digital files sound like vinyl, by literally making them worse. That seems crazy and probably why nobody does it. Maybe it's the faults that make it sound good? This principle can be applied to digital replication of any analogue component too. Copy what's wrong with it, it's quirks and limitations, and there's the essence of what made it sound nice to begin with. It's all do-able.

Tube amp guys moan about the drop off in quality of tubes manufactured over the last few decades, well they needn't worry as soon enough they won't need tubes at all to achieve sonic nirvana. The question is, will they ever realise this? Probably not.
 

Oh3AreSicks

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Jan 1, 2009
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286
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Nova Scotia, Canada
I think people spend too much time debating whether the Modellers sound and feel like the amps they try and clone. Rather than just accept them as another amp. I haven't heard any modeller that sounds like the best example of the tube counterpart it's trying to clone. But, I've heard modellers make some incredible tones.
 

mikeller

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I think people spend too much time debating whether the Modellers sound and feel like the amps they try and clone. Rather than just accept them as another amp. I haven't heard any modeller that sounds like the best example of the tube counterpart it's trying to clone. But, I've heard modellers make some incredible tones.

Very good point - but a lot of that has to do with how they are being marketed, and the name "modeler".
 

luke2joey

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Jan 13, 2009
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The Netherlands
To me, I need to have fun when I am playing the guitar. With my JP, or Luke and the Mesa, I can do all the sounds I need.
I do not feel the need to copy Pink Floyd or U2 exactly. It cannot be done also, because, as we all know, an important part of your tone is made by your fingers, the way you hit the strings, the pick, the strings you are using, etc.
So, when I try to copy the sounds of Gilmour, etc,: the sound always has my signature.
Let Steve Lukather, Steve Morse or John Petrucci play on whatever guitar and whatever amp: you still recognize them blindfolded.
So, with the Mk V, and some good pedals, I have an organic tone, fun to play, easy to dial in and I can nail any tone, with my signature.
Nothing gives me more fun and inspiration that my MM guitars through the Mesa!
If I can give you a tip: the JP Dreamscape the Alter Ego Delay pedals from TC Electronic. Take the Echorec setting or the 2290 setting on the Alter Ego and you sound more David Gilmour or Edge than any modeller. And easier to dial in also. Top notch sounds in these boxes.
 
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ksandvik

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Feb 17, 2011
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San Jose California
Modelers are fine for recording, help even Logic Pro X and Guitar Rig are excellent for recording.

As for live use, I'm still on the fence as I want stuff I could tweak easily on the fly, on-stage, LCD screen diving is not for me. Plus if a tube amp and a modeler sounds the same, I pick a tube amp, anyway. If modeler sounds were 10x better, then I might reconsider. Most likely I could get such sounds from parallel effect and amp threads (dual amps/cab setups) and similar programming.
 

dojo

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Jun 3, 2006
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Kansas
I like real amps and pedals for live playing and recording. Much easier to tweak on the fly. I'll practice thru almost anything though. This is the deal breaker for me on modelers. I don't want to wonder in the back of my head "does this sound real?" Same reason I use a tuner instead of tuning by ear. I can tune, know I'm in tune and move on to making music.
 

Eric O'Reilly

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Dojo, ps, I loved your laser gun guitar! Wicked trippy man! It was refreshing, we get either alot of metal, or polar opposite blues stuff, and guys like me who are big into Evh and play in his style, but you came right out of left field, awesome!
 
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