Crazy Music Man clearance at GC

[Greg Suarez]

There is no way I'm gonna believe that there haven't been dozens of other customers who wanted to try these and couldn't. No sale. Bad impression for Music Man for dozens of customers.

The problem is if you're a manufacturer, you need to have your stuff being sold at GC. It's like if you make toothpaste or garden hoses, you need your products sold at Walmart. GC is the Walmart of the music world, and while you're selling your instruments at a lower margin to the likes of GC, almost no one else out there is buying the kind of quantities GC does. You just have to hope and pray your products are being represented well in their establishments.

 

[Greg Suarez]

I'm heading to Cincy next Saturday. Zappa Plays Zappa concert that night, and master class with Dweezil that afternoon - going to have to check out the GC there - thanks for the tip!

kestrou

Yeah, it's worth checking out. I'm sure it's still not as impressive as their stores in L.A., New York and Chicago, but it's definitely a step up from the flea market that the Dayton store pretty much is.

 

[lifeson1]

Yeah, it's worth checking out. I'm sure it's still not as impressive as their stores in L.A., New York and Chicago, but it's definitely a step up from the flea market that the Dayton store pretty much is.

Cinci is great, and I live in the NYC area. Those stores REALLY aren't that much better, if at all. On the vintage front, maybe they have more LP's and Strats than other markets, but for the modern guitars, nope! However, I was impressed with the Hollywood GC, although that was quite a few years ago. I'm actually typing this while working four blocks from the Manhattan GC Store

 

[uOpt]

The problem is if you're a manufacturer, you need to have your stuff being sold at GC. It's like if you make toothpaste or garden hoses, you need your products sold at Walmart. GC is the Walmart of the music world, and while you're selling your instruments at a lower margin to the likes of GC, almost no one else out there is buying the kind of quantities GC does. You just have to hope and pray your products are being represented well in their establishments.

Well.

They are not.

GC is damaging MM's business.

 

[Tis BOOLsheet]

I'll dive on this grenade: It makes perfect sense to me that MusicMan and Guitar Center want to maintain a great relationship. So, it's probably uncool if MusicMan hosted a site that allowed buyers discuss their deals that squeezed money out of Guitar Center, or any other retailer they do business with for that matter. Retailers would find they couldn't make as much money on EBMM guitars because the buyers were constantly able to drive better informed hard deals, and then GC would probably rather sell other guitars. We don't want that.

I don't work for either company.

This is correct, although I'd say it differently. Guitar Center is advertising a deal to their customers, but either intentionally or unintentionally they are making it very complicated and difficult for you to obtain that deal. I guess they don't really want their customers to have this promotion.

I was thinking about buying a JP13 or JPX and saw they allegedly had numerous models on sale at various locations close to me. I literally called about 5 or 6 places and had almost exactly the same experience at each: the sales person had absolutely no clue what I was talking about. At first, one of the sales people gave me a price for the JPX that was not the clearance price at all and tried to tell me that it was. At other stores I had to wait on the phone for 10 minutes only to find out they actually don't have any those models in stock-- this was after I had to inform them of their own promotion.

I understand that GC wants to sell these instruments for the price that is best for them. But if you're going to do a promotion, then do it the right way and don't put all of these administrative and technical barriers in the way. If they would simply publish the prices or not care if their customers discuss their findings on the suppliers' forums, it would save me a lot of unnecessary hassle in getting to the instrument I want since I would just order it directly online or call that representative directly.

Also, I called GC customer service to get some assistance. The representative was some kid-- probably in his 20s-- who had no clue what I was talking about (again) and offered no help.

I don't blame EBMM for any of this irritating situation. They obviously don't want to piss off GC since they're such a huge purchaser.

 

[Greg Suarez]

Those stores REALLY aren't that much better, if at all.

That's actually surprising.

 

[Greg Suarez]

This is correct, although I'd say it differently. Guitar Center is advertising a deal to their customers, but either intentionally or unintentionally they are making it very complicated and difficult for you to obtain that deal. I guess they don't really want their customers to have this promotion.

I was thinking about buying a JP13 or JPX and saw they allegedly had numerous models on sale at various locations close to me. I literally called about 5 or 6 places and had almost exactly the same experience at each: the sales person had absolutely no clue what I was talking about. At first, one of the sales people gave me a price for the JPX that was not the clearance price at all and tried to tell me that it was. At other stores I had to wait on the phone for 10 minutes only to find out they actually don't have any those models in stock-- this was after I had to inform them of their own promotion.

I understand that GC wants to sell these instruments for the price that is best for them. But if you're going to do a promotion, then do it the right way and don't put all of these administrative and technical barriers in the way. If they would simply publish the prices or not care if their customers discuss their findings on the suppliers' forums, it would save me a lot of unnecessary hassle in getting to the instrument I want since I would just order it directly online or call that representative directly.

Also, I called GC customer service to get some assistance. The representative was some kid-- probably in his 20s-- who had no clue what I was talking about (again) and offered no help.

I don't blame EBMM for any of this irritating situation. They obviously don't want to piss off GC since they're such a huge purchaser.

The irony is you actually should blame EBMM for the situation. As part of their agreement with EBMM, GC is not allowed to publish prices once they go below a certain threshold. This prevents other MM dealers from getting into a price war, as most dealers won't match an unpublished price, especially one that skirts the line of selling at cost. It also prevents MM guitars from appearing devalued in the marketplace. Part of the reason a brand like MM can charge higher prices is because of the prestige of the brand name. If you all of a sudden see their guitars being sold everywhere at 40-60% discounts, people may begin to question whether the regular pricing is reasonable.

From what I was told by two different GC reps, the clearance sale prices represent cost pricing to GC. Whether or not that's true, I don't have the level of insight into GC's wholesale pricing with MM to be able to confirm. But I'll bet it's darn close, at least. A small independent dealer would likely not match these prices, as their cost price is higher than GC's. Since GC buys such large quantities, they likely receive a lower price from MM compared with a small dealer who buys only several at a time.

 

[ksandvik]

I know the story behind my recent Music Man deal from GC, a guitar that was expensive and nobody picked it up, meanwhile lots of hands on it, scratches on the back. At some point in time no company could claim to sell a high-end guitar with pickup scratches and back plate scratches as a new one, with that price point. I don't mind those scratches as if I gig with the guitar 2-4 times I will add more of them in place. Hence the deal and I was happy.

 

[Kenji20022]

It really isn't that difficult to call the guys up, ask for a manager in the guitar section of the store and ask for a price guys. If you're calling in and speak to a kid or someone who just doesn't know everything about guitar and expect them to of course you're going to have a terrible time there. None of my calls lasted longer than 1 minute if the location didn't have the guitar in question in stock. They can't post the prices up and that's that, all it takes is a phone call and you have your information.

And on the topic of guitars and their condition in a store, it's honestly the parent's faults that just let those kids wreak havoc on the instruments. Thankfully my closest Guitar Center requires that you have an adult with you to even enter the store if you're under 18. Reduced a lot of those issues immediately after that was put into place.

 

[ksandvik]

I don't think that there are just teenagers who put wear and tear on guitars in GC, it's all across the age groups.

 

[Kenji20022]

Of course, but there was a huge decrease in seeing guitars with missing parts, detuned and improperly setup, and just flat out bashed after that rule was put into place. It's pointless to call out a single demographic, but progress is definitely progress

 

[douglasspears]

I think my IQ dropped a few points reading this thread.

 

[ozzyrules]

I think my IQ dropped a few points reading this thread.

Like a good buddy of mine once told me:
"You're trying to pole vault over a mouse turd".

 

[Greg Suarez]

I think my IQ dropped a few points reading this thread.

Thanks for your contribution.

 

[wheres my pick?]

What I did for my order was called up the store, told the guy I was looking for a jp bfr, specifically Bali burst, he called me back 10 minutes later with a list of guitars and their prices, I got an awesome deal on one I wanted and I ordered it the next day in store. If you want the price call a store and ask one of the guys there to find them for you, or better yet call the 1-800 number and have one of the phone reps do it.

 

[Big Poppa]

great thread...the issues are more than you guys can speculate and many that I cannot discuss. But I can tell you that Drum City Guitarland is a fantastic dealer. THey do a wonderful job for as...as do many that are on the board....Pete Benji I dont want to leave anyone out.

Now understand that the first thing I can tell you is that I would be out of business without Guitar Center over the years. Dwell on that. Their volume allowed me to make payroll and be able to sell boutique dealers. Please dont forget that. THere are not enough Mom and Pop stores to create the volume.

The situation we have is best explained by how management on a store level is compensated....gross and net profit.....The internal policy is for a store to stay in real time with their markdowns...but hat affects the pay...if they dont acknowledge the damage they make more money in the short term.....but there is a day where they have to bite the bullet and that is massive clearance....See because purchasing allocates money to but for each vendor based on their inventory turn...aka sales....if they see a report that shows Dayton for example has 17 Music Man instruments on hand and that they havent sold..they are assuming that it is good inventory and the line is cold...the truth is those damaged but not marked down guitars keep the store from getting new hot inventory...It is complicated.......

Now as a manufacturer you need sales of your product flowing....when the stores are loaded with damaged or old stuff you arent getting the sales from them that you need....the big issue is if they advertise the blow out prices it hurts the other dealers...is Scorches the earth....That s why it's a dog and pony show to get the price....

there is more but this is enough to chew on for a day.. Iwill leave you with this the current management of Guitar Center knows they have an inventory issue as to the state of some guitars and are dealing with it. ALso dont assume that they dont have a plan for inventopry ...they do...some stores dont follow it...that doesnt mean that corporate doesnt have a policy Also I am not taking anything away from a boutique store and how they manage it but GUitar Center has over 260 stores....it isnt as easy.

 

[KEOKI]

Explains a lot. THANKS

 

[Greg Suarez]

great thread...the issues are more than you guys can speculate and many that I cannot discuss. But I can tell you that Drum City Guitarland is a fantastic dealer. THey do a wonderful job for as...as do many that are on the board....Pete Benji I dont want to leave anyone out.

Now understand that the first thing I can tell you is that I would be out of business without Guitar Center over the years. Dwell on that. Their volume allowed me to make payroll and be able to sell boutique dealers. Please dont forget that. THere are not enough Mom and Pop stores to create the volume.

The situation we have is best explained by how management on a store level is compensated....gross and net profit.....The internal policy is for a store to stay in real time with their markdowns...but hat affects the pay...if they dont acknowledge the damage they make more money in the short term.....but there is a day where they have to bite the bullet and that is massive clearance....See because purchasing allocates money to but for each vendor based on their inventory turn...aka sales....if they see a report that shows Dayton for example has 17 Music Man instruments on hand and that they havent sold..they are assuming that it is good inventory and the line is cold...the truth is those damaged but not marked down guitars keep the store from getting new hot inventory...It is complicated.......

Now as a manufacturer you need sales of your product flowing....when the stores are loaded with damaged or old stuff you arent getting the sales from them that you need....the big issue is if they advertise the blow out prices it hurts the other dealers...is Scorches the earth....That s why it's a dog and pony show to get the price....

there is more but this is enough to chew on for a day.. Iwill leave you with this the current management of Guitar Center knows they have an inventory issue as to the state of some guitars and are dealing with it. ALso dont assume that they dont have a plan for inventopry ...they do...some stores dont follow it...that doesnt mean that corporate doesnt have a policy Also I am not taking anything away from a boutique store and how they manage it but GUitar Center has over 260 stores....it isnt as easy.

I have actually warmed to GC much more over the years. I find that I can get great deals there if I really try. The guys at the local Dayton store are nice and willing to help - they seem genuinely interested in my business. They are just not very knowledgeable about their products. But, unfortunately, this is not a unique scenario. Whenever I'm shopping for something as pricey and complex as a new car, I always know more about the model than the salesman does. A major factor to consider with GC is you end up paying sales tax, which can factor heavily into price, especially with an item like a $2000-$3000 MM guitar. I like Sweetwater because I do not pay tax, and I live close enough to their warehouse that their free shipping always gets me the item the very next day. The problem with Sweetwater is they have terrible MM inventory levels, and new items seem to come to them in a trickle, at best.

I'm happy to read that GC management at least is aware that they have rampant inventory problems. The next step is doing something about it. While 260 stores can be difficult to govern, they do need governed. IME, a GC store will either be efficient and well-run, or completely lacking in discipline and not worth visiting. These lackluster stores need the hammer brought down on them. I am a firm believer in managing retail with an iron fist. The employee pool for retail is not exactly the créme-de-la-créme of the labor force. In my (admittedly small) experience with retail management, I found that I could not get much accomplished without being firm and professional to an almost stuffy level. I do not believe this is the case 100% of the time, but in situations like what was happening with the Dayton GC store several years ago, it took a complete house cleaning of management and the sales staff in order to bring a sense of discipline to that location. Upper management needs to start paying more attention to how the company is run at a store level, because I can't think of many other large retail chains with as many problems that are so obvious. Perhaps district/regional management needs to become more involved in how the stores in their territories are being run.

My biggest beef with GC is how they handle used inventory. It's just reprehensible. A single, small JPEG with no description of the item on the web site is not how you sell used instruments. When I send an email to the store requesting more pics and a better description, I am ignored 90% of the time. Easily. Not exaggerating. Okay, fine, I can call the store and get a description of the item. But I bought a used JPX for $1800, and when I received it, it was in nowhere near as good of condition as the sales guy described over the phone. Their system is broken. They either need to get serious about selling used instruments, or just stop. But they won't stop because used products have a far higher profit margin.

I really, really want to like GC, but it seems like they try hard to NOT make their customers like them.

 

[beej]

To everyone who bitches about GC ... consider how lucky you are to have stores with huge musical inventory nearby. For many of us, it's a wild goose chase to find things to try.

(I say this as a guy in a big crowded city near small stores of varying inventory.)

 

[ozzyrules]

GC can be great, if you deal with the right guy. I found him,thanks Keith(Sweat). His name is Robbie Gustin(GC Dallas). He will fulfill your EBMM needs. His number is 682-225-0221.