1991 Stingray bridge

[flywheel]

I've owned a '91 Stingray for about 5 yrs and I just noticed that the strings come through the bridge at an angle before resting on the saddles! I can't believe I never noticed this before!

Is there a reason EB would have designed a bridge this way? I've never had any problems with this bass but it seems very odd. The string should really hit the saddle straight on, especially to save the life of the string.

This bridge must not have been made for very long b/c I've never seen another and I also own a '96 Ray and its bridge is not this way.

I'll attach a pic... you have to look close to see how the string angles before hitting the saddles.

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

Just to confirm...I take it your bridge looks like this:

http://a3.cpimg.com/image/71/FB/22704753-5117-01510111-.jpg

That is a pic from a Pre-EB 1980 Bass.

The reason for the exaggerated angle of the D and G strings is because the anchor holes for those strings were to the left of their respective intonation screws. The prob was latter remedied by moving the 2 anchor holes to the right of said anchor holes.

Although your Bass is an Ernie Ball, in the early years EB utilized left over Pre-EB Music Man bridges...circa 1985 to 1988. Consequently, early EB 'Rays had a "B" prefix for their serials. An early example is B022961 which I have documented. Unfortunately, these early serial numbers were not kept on the EB data base.

I could be wrong but I think your Bass is earlier than 1991. I'm guessing it's more in keeping with a 1987 or 88 Bass and that your serial number starts with "B".

If you let me know your serial, I may be able to narrow the date of your Bass by comparing to other serials i have from that period.

Cheers.

 

[flywheel]

The guy who owns that '80 Ray replied to my thread on Talk Bass of the same subject. My '91 Ray is dated direct from Ernie Ball.

Serial number: 32547 (EB MM dating - 03/91)

It does have the SAME exact problem, which is totally strange!

I don't get what the fix is? Am I supposed to turn the saddles upside down and run the set screws through the other way? Or am I supposed to swap the intonation screw with where the strings are? I never could understand what the end result was from the link to the thread on that '80 Ray.

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

Well....I don't get it

That bridge is DEFINITELY a Pre-EB design!!!!

The only thing I can think of is that some of the Pre-EB bridges that EB received were unstamped and subsequently stamped by EB with their own numbers.

Here's a pic of another Pre-EB bridge where the D and G anchor holes have been moved to the right of their respective intonation screws. The pic isn't crash hot but you can clearly see the difference:

http://a3.cpimg.com/image/19/9D/23447833-c9cf-00B20086-.jpg

I don't think there is a fix!!!??? BUT BUT BUT.......

>>>>Am I supposed to turn the saddles upside down and run the set screws through the other way? Or am I supposed to swap the intonation screw with where the strings are?

Try both mods and see how you go....the initial assembly may be inncorrect on the part of the person who put the Bass together!!!

Have you got a URL link to the Talk Bass thread?

P.S. I found the tread!!!


Are you there Derek......?????? What's the story on this one???

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

flywheel...I believe I've sorted the situation....however, computer crashed and lost every thing....IMO it's assembly fault...before I throw this @#$$%^&&*&** computer out the @#$% window I'm going to relax with a bit of Jimi Hendrix, a few cleansing ales and whatever.....back to you tomorrow...

 

[flywheel]

That bridge is DEFINITELY a Pre-EB design!!!!

Why do say that? The bridge is almost identical to the one on my 96 Ray except my 91 has the foam mutes. Didn't all the 1991 Stingrays have foam mutes on the bridge???

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

Computers!!!! Nearly 12 hours work lost when the thing crashed.

As I said above, in the earlier years EB used a stock of left-over MM bridges. These were the top loading type introduced by MM in 1980. There are some examples of 1988 Basses sporting these bridges. Because they came from MM, they carried the “B” prefix numbering system. It would now seem evident that, because of your Bass, EB continued with that design (or similar) using their own numbering system. From pics I’ve looked at, it would appear that these latter bridges lasted till around 1992 but I’m not sure when they were actually introduced. Both bridges appear to have the strings centred over the mute thumb screws. Around 1993 it would appear that EB introduced a newer bridge with the strings offset to the left of the thumb screws. It seems I had incorrectly assumed that these newer bridges had been introduced earlier to directly replace the MM stock…THUS MY CONFUSION IN THE POST ABOVE!!! These newer bridges (still retaining the mute pads as with the earlier ones) seem to have lasted to around 1995 or 96. Also during the 93 to 95 period (and perhaps to 1996) EB used a bridge with the mutes deleted, but retained the same size bridge. Studs were inserted into the holes previously used for the thumb screws. They were very common on the 1995 and some 96 Basses. Around 1996 the downsized bridge was introduced and appears to be the bridge we see on the EB Basses today. That would generally seem to be the situation, as far as I can make out, but the dates may overlap and the changes may run concurrent with each other.

Now to your problem. The first pic is from a 1980 Pre-EB Bass serial B023230. (This looks very similar to your 1991 bridge). The second pic is from either a 1980 (or 81) Pre-EB Bass serial B022942. The first pic has the exaggerated angle of the strings over the D and especially over the G. However this bridge is latter in time to the one in the second pic. That leads me to believe that there is a possibility that the bridge in the first pic may have been assembled incorrectly. Why would MM revert to less desirable set up (if I can call it that). The mistake (if it is one) would be easy to make when you think about it. The two alternatives you mention may be the answer if both are done together. I don’t have a Bass with that type of bridge so I can’t do the test. It’s worth a try and you may be putting the Bass back to the way it was meant to be.

Pic 1

http://a3.cpimg.com/image/71/FB/22704753-5117-01510111-.jpg

Pic 2

http://a3.cpimg.com/image/19/9D/23447833-c9cf-00B20086-.jpg

Cheers.

 

[flywheel]

ok...I've figured out what the problem is

I hope I can put this all in words so that it's understandable! The saddles on my '96 Ray have the groove right up next to the left set screw (if you're looking at the bass straight on). The grooves on my '91 are in the center of the saddle, so it has nothing to do with the bridge and everything to do with someone at the Ernie Ball factory placing the wrong saddles on my bridge IMO.

I loosened the strings and place the string where it SHOULD rest on the saddle and the strings no longer sit over the pole pieces like they should. So...I believe they must install the bridge at the factory after they install the PUP's so everything's out of alignment now if I put the correct saddles on.

I can either deal with the problem as is, the bass still works properly, or I could try one thing:

If it's possible to swap the string holes and the saddle screws I could order new saddles and run the string on the right side of the saddle instead of the left side (like it's supposed to be) and I THINK everything would align with the pole pieces on the PUP.

Do this make ANY sense?!!!

 

[flywheel]

I think what happened is that my bridge has the old style saddles from the string-thru models. The string thru models have the groove in the saddle right in the center like mine, however since the strings don't run through the bridge, the string hits the saddle straight on like it should on the old Pre-EB's.

My bridge should have had saddles with the groove on the left for sure. There's a 1982 Stingray (which string thru the bridge) on the Bass Palace site and it has the same issue as mine b/c the grooves are also in the center--as are the two examples Rod offered up.

I don't know how a '91 Ray got such an old style bridge with the REALLY old style saddles. This is strange!!!

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

Hi flywheel,

I’ve understood everything you’ve said.

>>> The grooves on my '91 are in the center of the saddle, so it has nothing to do with the bridge and everything to do with someone at the Ernie Ball factory placing the wrong saddles on my bridge IMO.

>>>My bridge should have had saddles with the groove on the left for sure.

Well, I’m not too sure about that but I could be wrong.

>>> I don't know how a '91 Ray got such an old style bridge with the REALLY old style saddles. This is strange!!!

That’s why I set out the Bridge evolution above. It may not be 100% accurate but, by checking pics and data I think it sets the general picture. The saddles for the Pre-EB string through body and the Pre-EB top load are both centre grooved. The same top load style bridge (with centre grooved saddles) was continued by EB. The centre grooved saddles on your Bass, IMO, are period correct. I’ve just checked another 1991 bridge and it too has centre grooved saddles and the angled strings. The way I see it, the latter saddles with the groove to the left (as on your 96 Bass) would probably have only been at the development stage when your Bass was made (?). IMO, by adding the latter saddles with the groove to the left would detract from the originality of your bridge....but may work.

The string angle, over all four saddles, seems to have been rectified when EB originally introduced the bridge on your 96 Bass…circa 1991-2 (?). By moving the saddle groves to the left, the bridge now had to be moved offset to the right of the pickup and is therefore not in direct alignment with it. This allowed for the strings to remain centred over the pole pieces on the pickup. This is the case with my 94 Ray…the bridge is definitely offset to the right.

I believe this is the possibly a partial fix for your 91, if all string anchor holes and intonation screw holes are the same:

Disassemble the D and G saddles.

The intonation screws for the D and G saddles should be moved into the D and G string anchor holes and the 2 strings moved to the void left by the intonation screw holes. D and G saddles need to be flipped over 180 degrees so that the string groves are now to the right of the intonation screws. As the saddle adjustment screws are now upside down, they would have to be removed and reinserted.

Although there will be an angle of the strings over all saddles, the D and G will be more symmetrical with the E and A strings as I believe they possibly should be (pic 2 above).

I could be wrong but, as I said in the post above, the D and G saddles may have been incorrectly assembled in the first place. If that is the case, then it’s hard to believe how it happened for so long? It could explain the difference in the two pics however, of which both bridges appear basically the same. It's possible also that pic 2 may be someone's latter mod.

Another 1991 Bridge:

http://a0.cpimg.com/image/D8/0F/23514840-113a-0200013C-L.jpg

Cheers.

P.S. I realise that the fix I suggest doesn't cure the overall angle on all four strings which was your original question. I don't think that can be rectified without changing originality. I have noticed though, with similar Basses, that the angle over the D and G is far more pronounced...eg compare the pic just above to pic 1. It should however add symmetry to the bridge as in pic 2.

 

[flywheel]

Your theories sound completely correct. I'm not touching this basses setup b/c it sounds like this is how it's supposed to be. I'm sure EB realized that the string hitting the saddle at an angle was not a great idea and they just reconstructed their design circa '96. It all makes sense now...at least I know it's not a defect.

Thanks for all your help Rod. Sounds like you're as passionate about Stingrays as I am!!!

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

>>>>it sounds like this is how it's supposed to be

pretty sure flywheel....see what Derek at EB says!

(actually....bridge correction seems to be circa 92....down size circa 96).

Cheers.

 

[flywheel]

Your 1991 Stingray's bridge was designed by Leo Fender and the string angle is normal for that bridge

Here's a quote from Jon, a tech at Ernie Ball. Your theory was correct Rod.

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

Thanks for the follow up!

Cheers.