20th SR5 in the UK already!

[bovinehost]

Don't effie with Beffie!

 

[TSanders]

Nice try, trying to "save" this guy, but he's gotta be making monthly trips to the US if he manages to always have a freshly-shipped-from-the-US supply. I don't see that as being cost-effective. He's obviously getting them shipped to him in the UK, probably at a devalued sale price (which, I might add, is ILLEGAL). His partner, the said US dealer, has been warned about exporting numerous times over the past 3 years, is extremely unpleasant to deal with, brazenly breaches contract with us all the time, and even threatened to sue us once. So not only are you supporting one liar, but two...

I don't buy fakes, I don't buy bootlegs. I don't buy stolen goods and I don't support people who cheat the system, so my answer is no. I wouldn't support him just to save a few quid.

Well said Beth. I was going to reply to Ex Lurkers posts but knew that I couldnt do it tactfully, so I refrained.

Don't effie with Beffie!

Good one Jackie. That ones gonna get used.

 

[ExLurker]

I asked the question you gave the answer. Each to their own... It doesnt appear to be a fake or bootleg just something was obtained a bit 'hookey' which is subjective. In the grand scheme of things it is only an EBMM dealer who has contravened the EBMM dealer agreement. I fully understand EBMM's commitment to protect their dealer network across the world and condone it in the main. But think of it this way as a business person, if you can get something faster, cheaper and the real deal, you as the end user have done nothing wrong or illegal.

Beth, I wasnt 'trying' to save anything but just voicing my opinion, the opportunity to save anything is long gone and even then only if I was in the market for a 20th which I'm not.

 

[TSanders]

I asked the question you gave the answer. Each to their own... It doesnt appear to be a fake or bootleg just something was obtained a bit 'hookey' which is subjective. In the grand scheme of things it is only an EBMM dealer who has contravened the EBMM dealer agreement. I fully understand EBMM's commitment to protect their dealer network across the world and condone it in the main. But think of it this way as a business person, if you can get something faster, cheaper and the real deal, you as the end user have done nothing wrong or illegal.

Beth, I wasnt 'trying' to save anything but just voicing my opinion, the opportunity to save anything is long gone and even then only if I was in the market for a 20th which I'm not.

Wow, you really believe that bull**** dont you?

 

[RitchieDarling]

Don't effie with Beffie!

That needs to be on a t-shirt!

Ritchie

 

[ExLurker]

Wow, you really believe that bull**** dont you?

You call it bull, I call it profit and loss.

 

[Beth]

But think of it this way as a business person, if you can get something faster, cheaper and the real deal, you as the end user have done nothing wrong or illegal.

I don't think you get it.

You're either the business person (the one making money off the deal) or you're the end user (the one spending the money). As the business person, in this case, the seller is cheating the system, along with the US dealer who has disregarded our polite requests to stay within contract numerous times. As the end user, in this case, the buyer is supporting the cheater.

 

[bovinehost]

It doesnt appear to be a fake or bootleg just something was obtained a bit 'hookey' which is subjective.

It's not terribly subjective, actually. Each US dealer signs a completely binding legal document which prohibits them from selling outside the US. So that's not really subjective, even if we'd like to think so. It's concrete, black and white and completely OBjective.

In the grand scheme of things it is only an EBMM dealer who has contravened the EBMM dealer agreement. I fully understand EBMM's commitment to protect their dealer network across the world and condone it in the main.

You're right. It isn't quite as serious as murder on college campuses or war in the Middle East or alien life forms coming down from the sky and turning us into newts. But then we don't talk about that stuff much here.

.....if you can get something faster, cheaper and the real deal, you as the end user have done nothing wrong or illegal.

I can think of a number of situations in which that wouldn't be true.

Whoever buys that bass will have done nothing illegal, but will not be covered by warranty and who could blame Customer Service if they were a bit reticent to get involved should a problem develop down the road?

It's great that we all have opinions about these things, but opinions don't amount to much in the face of a legal document.

Wouldn't you say?

Jack

 

[andynpeters]

Perhaps it's a difference in perception on this side of the Atlantic, where the European Union encourages free trade between all member countries. US companies tend not to think that way.
Most European companies are happy to ship to other countries & of course we have no import duties to pay. Most US companies will not permit their dealers to export goods.

Aside from the moral argument, there's also a legal one.I'm no lawyer, but if this guy is selling goods on which he has not paid full UK import duty he could certainly be prosecuted.....I don't know whether the "end user" could have the illegally imported bass seized????

 

[ExLurker]

I think "cheat the system" is the key here. Let's all remember that the "cool" Ebay UK guy doesn't have to apply to get a business license, doesn't have to pay overhead, doesn't have a payroll, doesn't have to pay workman's comp, etc. Oh, that's right. I forgot. He's SPECIAL.. Let's all bow to the SPECIAL guy who cheats the system so we all can have a few extra quid for some crisps and a pint. That's fair.

I never called him cool or special. And trying to belittle me with the use of a few British colloqillisms is totally uncalled and inappropriate . You have dealer agreement, somebody has contravened it, I never said I condoned it. I said I would take advantage of it as end user if I wanted to.

Jack, I never wanted to effie with Beffie, but this for some reason has pushed all the wrong buttons.

 

[ExLurker]

Whoever buys that bass will have done nothing illegal, but will not be covered by warranty and who could blame Customer Service if they were a bit reticent to get involved should a problem develop down the road?

It's great that we all have opinions about these things, but opinions don't amount to much in the face of a legal document.

Wouldn't you say?

Jack

Jack, I totally agree, I used to import a range of furniture into the UK with a network of 120 dealers here. They all had their sales territories and the dealer agreements were in black and white. Did'nt stop the pesky varmits stealing business from each other though. I'm now and end user of EBMMs products which for all the right reasons are sold at higher prices in the UK because of the UK dealerships margins etc etc. But, if you were a musician gassing for a 20th in a marketplace where these things are rare and some guy on Ebay could cut a deal, I for one would not sniff at it. Doe'snt make it right but I havent done anything illegal or physically hurt anyone in othe overall scheme of things. As for the warranty aspect EBMM, the products are bullet proof and I would be willing to take the chance, if it went badly wrong I'd buy another one, the percentages are to much in my favour.
Paul

 

[Beth]

I never called him cool or special. And trying to belittle me with the use of a few British colloqillisms is totally uncalled and inappropriate . You have dealer agreement, somebody has contravened it, I never said I condoned it. I said I would take advantage of it as end user if I wanted to.

Jack, I never wanted to effie with Beffie, but this for some reason has pushed all the wrong buttons.

You didn't call him cool, someone else did. I called him special because he apparently thinks that he doesn't have to follow the rules, but everyone else does, so he must be special. As far as belittling you, that was not intended at all, and if I offended you, I'm sorry. However, if you're going to be chastising Bassmonkey for "stuffing up" (a British colloquialism?) a potential (crooked) supplier, you've got to have a thick skin if someone throws around words like "crisps" and "quid". You never said that you condoned this activity, but you did say (after editing 2 of the posts you've made in this thread) that you were going to have to fly over to the US if the Ebayer gets cut off. That sounds like not just condoning, but wholeheartedly supporting.

 

[bovinehost]

for some reason has pushed all the wrong buttons

I can see that it has, indeed I can.

My point is this. While no one is going to crucify you or anyone else for taking advantage of a good deal on a great instrument, it's important to remember that the people in charge of enforcing the dealer agreements, who work very hard to keep the distributor network in healthy shape so that instruments continue to flow in an orderly (and legal) way to the good people who populate the non-US portion of the world are the very same people who own the forum and consider us rather special customers.

To me, it would seem disrespectful of the friendships and relationships to circumvent the preferred manner of doing business.

I don't expect everyone to feel that way, but it is how I feel.

Let's do this. This is clearly a hot-button issue and the company position on such matters is clear enough that we don't have to re-argue it today.

So let's shut it down and, unless someone from the company wants to reinvigorate the debate, we'll agree to at least partially disagree.

Jack

 

[bovinehost]

Zat okay, Beth?

 

[Beth]

Only if you delete your post "Effie with Beffie".

Actually, I think my colleague Kevin is presently replying to this thread. Leave it open for a bit.

 

[bovinehost]

Dude, that was pure lightning strike genius!

Really?

*sad now*

 

[kevin]

Jack, I never wanted to effie with Beffie, but this for some reason has pushed all the wrong buttons.

Hi Guys,

Working in International Sales/Customer Service I obviously deal with this issue(along with beth) quite often. And the story basically goes like this...when it comes time, for an over sease customer, to purchase an instrument through a US based dealer. They are more than willing to condone and justify their purchase....by saying they'd rather buy the instrument(with no warranty) then if something happens they'll BE HAPPY to pay for the repairs in full. At the time of the purchase they say the risk is well worth it to them. However, on the rare occasion, when they have a warranty defect come into play the attitude seems to change quickly and we are always asked for assistance and help! I wouldn't say you "pushed the wrong buttons" but you also have to understand that Beth and I work with over 80 countries and there are much more useful idea's, projects and promotions that we would love to be working on. So it can become a bit frustrating when it's and issue that has been dealt with and discussed in detail in the past.

I do love all you guys though!!

 

[wen2202]

This is only a suggested possibility, the guitars - not only EBMM- are being bought legitamately in the States by American citizens whoose place of work or occupation dictates being in a place that is still within the USA even though it is infact in another country altogether.

There is a flammin' big USAirforce base smack bang in the middle of East Anglia, which all American sellars/stores will ship to or the personnel can bring them over themselves.

 

[Beth]

Kidding! Geez, Jackie!

Hmmm... let me think of a good "Jackie" saying....

Chew Tobaccy with Jackie?

Get Wacky with Jackie?

Give some Slackie to Jackie?

And so I digress...

 

[ExLurker]

Okay with me, I did'nt mean to stir up a hornets nest and if I riled you Beth, it wasnt intentional. And just so you know I edited for typos right after I posted, just so you know, you know?

Man, those 20th's are nice. I'm off to bed...goodnight all.