a few EVH guitar questions?

[VOLTAGE]

tone zone very similar to the axis or EVH bridge pup?

I know it has been said that the bridge pup on a EVH or axis is similar to a tone zone? i just dont hear that similarity?
has anyone actually did a A/B with them?
I am going by what DIMARZIO states in the FAQ section of thier site?



What type of pickups were used in the Eddie Van Halen MusicMan Guitar?



These pickups were only available as original equipment on the EVH MusicMan guitar. MusicMan replaced the Van Halen guitar with a very similar model called the Axis, which uses the same pickups. The closest-sounding pickups we offer are the Air Norton™ for the neck position and the Tone Zone® for the bridge position.



and,

my next question is what exact bridge pup height do you other EVH players have on yours?
mine is at low E front coil pole 5/32" and 4/32" high E front pole? is this the factory setting?

 

[hbucker]

I don't have my EVH right here to measure but since the pickup height is not adjustable, I'm guessing yours is right. If you bought it used you could always just take them out and make sure the previous owner didn't shim them.

I've A/B'd the Tone Zone with the EVH pickups. I agree, they aren't very close. Certainly not close enough to say "If you like this one, you'll like the other one."

The TZ is warmer with more mids and less high end attack. It's also got a little more distortion than the custom DiMarzios in the EVH. The o.d. tone from the EVH is creamier than TZ - Air Norton combo too.

The Air Norton is a little closer to the EVH neck pickup than the TZ is to the bridge. But the Air Norton still isn't quite as bell-like.

 

[PurpleSport]

As a matter of interest, someone recently sold a few sets of what were allegedly Axis pickups on eBay, and claimed the pickups read 16k for the bridge and 11.8k for the neck:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3707567758&category=41426

I compared those figures to the corresponding models on the DiMarzio site, and indeed there didn't appear to be anything with those exact figures, although the AN and TZ were pretty close.

That said, I can also personally attest that the TZ just ain't my personal cup o' tea. Output and harmonics were fine, but it was too middy/bassy and not zingy enough for my ear (my guess is the warm Alnico 5 magnet coupled with the hot unequal bobbin wind nuked the top end openness). Anyone wanna buy mine?

I agree the few HB-ed Axi I've played seemed to have a better treble response, I just wonder how much of that is actually due to the contribution of the maple neck and top - those play more into a guitar's tone than many folks realize. There could also be some other factors contributing to the "secret sauce" that aren't being taken into account, such as type and gauge of wire they're using, magnet type/strength, gaps in the magnets/bobbins/spacers/bottom plates, etc. Bill Lawrence's site has a whole "Pickupology" section which explains the variables involved in this stuff, and it's pretty fascinating if you're into that kind of electromagnetic minutiae....

(I'm sure the DiMarzio and EBMM employees who are in the know about this but can't say a word probably sit back and laugh when they see all these threads with this kind of conjecture and theorizing going on...hi guys......hi Sterling....hello Steve Blucher...are we even close at all?? <LOL>)

 

[pack-rat]

i found this article might be interesting:

The "Secret" Edward Van Halen Pickup
Price as offered from Seymour Duncan Custom Shop: $140
I’ll admit I really lagged on doing a feature on pickups. It’s so much easier to just plug in a pedal, or play through an amp, etc. rather than having to go through the process of installing pickups with all the guitar dismantling, the soldering and even restringing of the guitar which isn’t something I’m ever thrilled to do. In any case, I knew that I eventually would have to take a look at some pickups so I made a call to premier pickup maker Seymour Duncan first.
When the gentleman from Seymour Duncan's support department answered, we went through the regular question and answer phase. I explained first that I was primarily looking for a replacement humbucker for the bridge position in a Les Paul. My Les Paul Classic came equipped with the 500T ceramic humbucker that happens to be the hottest output humbucker that Gibson makes. That is fine for flat-out gain, but I find that super high output pickups really sacrifice the tone and clarity of the instrument and are really a “one trick” kind of solution for helping overdrive some older amps. I told the support specialist that I wanted some versatility out of my Les Paul.
The Seymour Duncan support specialist then asked me, “What kind of sound are you looking for?”
“Well, this might sound a little weird,” I began to explain with a little hesitation. “I mean, I’m not trying to copy anyone directly in particular, but I really like the tone of Edward Van Halen in the early days. I guess I’d like to go something for that.”
The Seymour Duncan “Custom Custom” pickup was the one that was first suggested. As we talked on the phone, I went to the website and looked at the specs. I noticed the Custom Custom model had a DC Resistance of 14.4K. Based on my discussion with Victor over at Plexi Palace, a guy that’s got the “Brown Sound” nailed, he said a big part was to get a pickup that had a resistance of only around 8.5K.
“You know what,” I continued. “The Custom Custom’s resistance seems to be off a bit. I was told it needed to be a PAF style like your ’59 pickup. Something that had a lower resistance in the 8.5K range.”
I could tell the support specialist was smiling on the other end. “Well to be honest with you, we typically recommend the Custom Custom first for people looking for the overall feel and vibe of the early Van Halen sound. The ’59 is a great pickup but has a bit of a brighter top end due to the fact that it uses an Alnico V magnet, rather than an Alnico II.”
“I don’t really know much about that stuff really,” I admitted.
“To those people that really want to get the pickup that’s dead-on to the early Van Halen sound, when the Custom Custom just won’t do, we have a special pickup out of our Custom Shop available. It’s similar to the ’59 in that it is based off of a PAF-type of design, but uses an Alnico II magnet, wound just a little bit hotter then the ’59 and has a softer top-end response.”
This was intriguing to me for sure. “How did you get the design for this one? I mean, I thought Eddie’s stuff was always very top-secret.”
The support specialist then shared a story that Seymour Duncan himself had worked with Edward Van Halen in the late ‘70s when Edward brought him his favorite pickup and asked Seymour to work with it for a design for Edward’s use. Seymour wound a pickup based on that design and was interested in marketing and producing it as a special model for all interested customers to which Edward declined. As a result, it has been known as the Custom Shop pickup with an EVH wind and of course available only through Seymour Duncan’s Custom Shop.
After hearing about this pickup, this was the one I had to have. At $140, it’s a more expensive pickup than a regular production model (nearly twice the cost), but seeing that the pickup is such a critical part of the overall guitar tone, some may view this pickup as a bargain. After listening to this pickup, I certainly now feel this way! And I can understand why Edward didn't want to give away the secret - this is your "Brown Sound" right here...
Now mind you, I wasn’t looking for the exact copy of tone of Edward Van Halen, but after playing through plexi and metal panel vintage Marshall tops and other nice gear (vintage Voxes, Hiwatts, and Fenders as well as various new amps), I wondered why I just wasn’t satisfied overall with the tone I was getting. The area I had ignored too long was that of the pickup. The stock Gibson 500T screamed out with high output and resulted in heavy bottom end tone. What was missing was the sense of dynamics and clarity and a smooth lively "punch". Part of what made Edward’s tone on the early Van Halen albums so great was the fact that the overdrive was gotten from his aggressive attack on the strings – the corresponding harmonics brought forth a lively aggressive sound. It was a heavy sound too, but the Marshall plexi Edward used certainly wasn’t considered a super high gain amplifier. Edward’s attack on the strings in effect helped turn the amp into a higher gain sound and the pickup he used was a big part of the equation. I realized this myself after I installed the EVH Custom Shop pickup into my own Les Paul.
Listen to a current high-gain amplifier by “whoever-your-favorite-manufacturer-happens-to-be” and the problem that occurs is the added amounts of compression that make the overall sound seem sterile. In effect, when using too much gain from the amp itself from the preamp gain stages, the tube feel diminishes dramatically. Now don’t get me wrong, I do enjoy many of the tunes played on today’s rock radio stations. Good catchy hooks and tunes, but do you notice how the guitar tones for the most part seem to sound somewhat lifeless? I attribute this being caused by the amplifiers doing all the distorting and so the dynamics and overall feel are gone. The music that comes out of a Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier is supposed to be "in your face aggressive" but you can tell that the guitarists just don't need to play their instruments aggressively to get the sound - just dial up the knob and the preamp tubes will just buzz away!
Edward dug into his strings and his overall vibe and tone feels aggressive because he WAS aggressive with the guitar – it’s a sound and tone that feels genuine, alive and present. A high-gain modern amplifier is convenient but I've yet to hear one that can produce the same "alive" sound. Some may argue - "it's in the player, Ed will sound like Ed on anything" - true to some extent, but I'll tell you that the newer Van Halen material recorded through Peavey 5150 amplifiers just doesn't capture the same kind of tone he used to have. You can tell it's Van Halen through the technique and his style, but it's again an entirely different tone now. And obviously this is the tone Edward Van Halen wants now and is happy with.
All stories aside, the EVH Custom Shop pickup from Seymour Duncan will help deliver the tone of the early Van Halen albums if that's what you're looking for. Even if that is not your goal, you may want to consider it for its lively sound and smooth midrange attack. Not only did it improve the tone of my Marshall amplifiers, it sounded great through my Hiwatt and Fender amplifiers as well. Unlike the experience with the stock Gibson high-output 500T pickup, it felt like I was actually playing through responsive tube amplifiers once again. This is a fantastic rock and roll pickup and well worth the price to have one built for you.
I then did a little “VH experiment” as well, using my bench Variac and lowering the voltage into my Marshall Super Lead to approximately 90 volts. With the volumes and tones cranked up and the channels 1 and 2 on the Marshall linked, the “Brown Sound” smooth Marshall tone with the extra “cut” came through. I plan to record some sound files for those that need to hear it to believe it. What a blast it was to play the riffs from Mean Streets, Unchained, and Runnin’ with the Devil! Even with the Variac off and running through a 50 watt 1968 plexi head, the Van Halen type vibe can definitely be gotten.
I used to think that Van Halen’s guitar tone was unattainable or that there was studio trickery involved, i.e., extra e.q.’ing, or modified Marshalls used. I’m here to tell you that the sound is available and there are no real tricks that were used. The basic ingredients are a Marshall Super Lead (it doesn’t even “have” to be a plexi), an EVH Custom Shop Humbucker from Seymour Duncan, and a Variac (to help take things easy on your amplifier’s transformers with everything cranked to the max). If you want better control and to elaborate on the system as outlined in the Van Halen artist profile, use a THD Hotplate to help tame some of the volume and then you’ll also gain the benefit of being able to use the line out if you’d like to into a second amplifier and speaker set. Note that VH II was recorded with a dry head to cabinet setup unlike the dummy loaded configuration on the first record.
If you’ve been attempting to get a similar tone and vibe as Edward Van Halen’s and have been missing out on "something" but not quite sure what (like I had for quite sometime!), definitely don’t ignore your pickup! Give Seymour Duncan a call at (805) 964-9610 or check them out on the web at www.seymourduncan.com. Tell them Dave at LegendaryTones sent you!
Special thanks go to Victor at the PlexiPalace (www.plexipalace.com) for his knowledge, insight and expertise about the Van Halen tone and also to Seymour Duncan for expediting and making the EVH wind Custom Shop pickup for us so quickly!

 

[PurpleSport]

They've put one with a similar concept into regular production now called the Custom 5, which had a similar "swap the magnets on stock units" following on the SD bulletin board. I hear that model comes pretty close to that Custom Shop one, which I see is apparently now called the "Evenly Voiced Humbucker (EVH)" and costs $160 (oh, the laws of supply and demand and marketing - they could easily wind these up on a large scale if and sell 'em cheaper if they wanted to)...it just has a higher DC resistance at 14.4k.

Or...you could do like I do, and get an Axis Sport with MM-90s. Yep, you heard me, the stock EBMM soapbars combined with the right amp/modeller do the absolute BEST early VH impression I've ever heard, at least in my hands. Since they're hot single coils, they're probably even close to that magic 8.5k PAF range the article alludes to (average strat hits around 6k, hotter "fat strat" ones are around 7k more or less)....sure wish EBMM would release the spec info on these into the public domain (I've asked, and they won't). Trust me, with some EQ tweaking and rethinking of signal pathing it CAN be done, which is one of the reasons I bought my Sport in the first place.

Oh, the other thing in the early EVH tone equation that I think a lot of people totally miss out on is that his main famous strat had an ash body, like the Sport does. It's a great resonant tonewood, and carries a livelier tone profile that alder, mahogany, and basswood/maple just don't have. As cool as the Axis is and as good as it sounds, it's not the same thing as that early '78 sound to my ears, and the 5150 amps make the Ed-man's current tone deviate that much more from his original one.

Trust me, I'm definitely not knocking either amp or guitar, because they're great....it's just an apples and oranges thing. Seems the guy in the article felt the same way I do, too, so it's glad to see I'm not the only one who's made these observations...anyone else felt the same?

 

[puppiesonacid]

hahaha here we go again.... running down the brown sound oh yeah....


God bless,

Tony

 

[pack-rat]

I wonder how much of that brown sound is actualy in EVH ?
What I mean is how much of that "sound" is actualy conveyed through the the artist himself along with the equipment ? 50% artist & 50 % equipment or... ?

 

[VOLTAGE]

I wonder how much of that brown sound is actualy in EVH ?
What I mean is how much of that "sound" is actualy conveyed through the the artist himself along with the equipment ? 50% artist & 50 % equipment or... ?

well it was said by those who where actually there that EVH played a tele and a fender amp at a "sit in" he did with the PRETENDERS a long time ago and he STILL SOUNDED LIKE HE ALWAYS DOES!
so i say it is 95% him and 5% gear

 

[VOLTAGE]

BTW, in regard to the duncan EVH custom shop $160 rip off
any P.A.F that is overwound to 9.2K with a alnico II magnet and uses AWG 42 PE wire will get that tone.
that duncan is all "HYPE"
they expect all the VH nuts to buy it.
there is a guy at http://mywebpages.comcast.net/skgs/sk/Index.htm
who will wind you the same thing to a tee for $65
I got one and it is the same tone as my buds $160 duncan EVH

 

[VOLTAGE]

I've A/B'd the Tone Zone with the EVH pickups. I agree, they aren't very close. Certainly not close enough to say "If you like this one, you'll like the other one."

The TZ is warmer with more mids and less high end attack. It's also got a little more distortion than the custom DiMarzios in the EVH. The o.d. tone from the EVH is creamier than TZ - Air Norton combo too.

The Air Norton is a little closer to the EVH neck pickup than the TZ is to the bridge. But the Air Norton still isn't quite as bell-like.

that is what i hear as well.
since i dont want to tamper with my beloved custom wound EVH dimarzio's
I will be willing to bet,that it has matched coils while the tone zone has "dual resonance" coils or Unbalanced coils to be more accurate
since the EVH bridge is creamier it probably has two 8.5K coils instead of the ones like the TZ at 9.2K front coil and 8.6K rear coil.

 

[pack-rat]

BTW, in regard to the duncan EVH custom shop $160 rip off
any P.A.F that is overwound to 9.2K with a alnico II magnet and uses AWG 42 PE wire will get that tone.
that duncan is all "HYPE"
they expect all the VH nuts to buy it.
there is a guy at http://mywebpages.comcast.net/skgs/sk/Index.htm
who will wind you the same thing to a tee for $65
I got one and it is the same tone as my buds $160 duncan EVH

Thanks for posting that !

i could never understand why PU's can be so expensive.

Essentailly they are just a magnet with copper wiring. Talk about profit. ($160

My mod project guitar was free and I want to keep price low (Peavey Tracer {fender bullet knockoff})

I'll get my PU for my mod from this guy.

 

[VOLTAGE]

Thanks for posting that !

i could never understand why PU's can be so expensive.

Essentailly they are just a magnet with copper wiring. Talk about profit. ($160 )

I'll get my PU for my mod from this guy.

his name is steven kersting,he does great work and his quality is as good as duncans if not better and his pups are handwound to boot

 

[ratter]

As a matter of interest, someone recently sold a few sets of what were allegedly Axis pickups on eBay, and claimed the pickups read 16k for the bridge and 11.8k for the neck:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3707567758&category=41426

Whoa!! That is most definitely a scam, or at least a very confused seller!! Those are NOT EVH pickups. First of all, the EVH pickups do not have "Dimarzio" stamped into them. Second, and probably more importantly, the EVH pickups are 3-conductor pickups! Those "might" be Axis pickups, but they're definitely not the same as were put in the stock EVH guitars.

I'll try to post some pictures if I can, as I just replaced mine with Virtual PAF's (nice improvement, IMO). But my EVH pickups (and I'm the original owner of the guitar) are 3-conductor pickups, and there are no stickers on the back of the bridge pickup and only a "patent applied for" sticker on the back of the neck pickup.

VOLTAGE...I apologize as I promised you this info a LONG time ago! My EVH's pickup height measures precisely the same as yours. An Axis that I just traded had the pickups much closer. And my hardtail EVH's pickups were a good 1 or 2 32nd's closer...

 

[ratter]

Oh, and 11.8k for the neck is too low. It's at least 14k+

 

[VOLTAGE]

I agree with RATTER that Ebay auction has
custom dmarzio's but not from a EVH sig axe
as far as wiring dimarzio is now supposedly using 4 conductor pups on the axis super sports(due to the 5 way switching,but to the best of my knowledge the two bucker axis has 3 wire?
the logo on the pups really threw me off,i know the dimarzio's in the prestige ibanez RG 3120 have a stamp on the coils for the tone zone and paf pro, but on a EBMM axis? never saw one?

 

[ratter]

I agree with RATTER that Ebay auction has
custom dmarzio's but not from a EVH sig axe
as far as wiring dimarzio is now supposedly using 4 conductor pups on the axis super sports(due to the 5 way switching,but to the best of my knowledge the two bucker axis has 3 wire?
the logo on the pups really threw me off,i know the dimarzio's in the prestige ibanez RG 3120 have a stamp on the coils for the tone zone and paf pro, but on a EBMM axis? never saw one?

I can't check anymore, since I traded the guitar, but I would swear that my 2-HB Axis had 4 conductor pickups....

 

[VOLTAGE]

I'll try to post some pictures if I can, as I just replaced mine with Virtual PAF's (nice improvement, IMO). But my EVH pickups (and I'm the original owner of the guitar) are 3-conductor pickups, and there are no stickers on the back of the bridge pickup and only a "patent applied for" sticker on the back of the neck pickup.

those V Paf's that good?
now sell me your EVH dimarzio's

 

[ratter]

those V Paf's that good?
now sell me your EVH dimarzio's

Sure, $400.

They are good, man. They sound very, very, very much like the stock pickups, just with much lower output. So the tone just doesn't have that high-output smeariness/harshness to it. I got a zebra pair on ebay for $100, so you can't tell by looking that the pickups are changed...I'm very happy with them. The bridge can be a little bright, but nothing that a tweak of the amp can't fix.

 

[VOLTAGE]

Sure, $400.

They are good, man. They sound very, very, very much like the stock pickups, just with much lower output. So the tone just doesn't have that high-output smeariness/harshness to it. I got a zebra pair on ebay for $100, so you can't tell by looking that the pickups are changed...I'm very happy with them. The bridge can be a little bright, but nothing that a tweak of the amp can't fix.

I will give ya $500 no all kidding aside they are great sounding pups ,to me it is the best high output bridge pup i ever heard(paf like with more heat! )
the neck pup is very,very close to the air norton but a bit hotter in the wind.
the V paf's sound very enticing if i ever want a more tradtional output from my EVH

does the bridge V paf have any twang to it? i love that old PAF twang like on "hot r for teacher" VH used a real '58 paf in the gibby V!