Axis vs Luke

[Eilif]

The owner of a local music store was generous enough to lend me his own, personal EVH to take home and try out for a few days. (I asked if he had an Axis to try out, and this was the closest thing he had.) So I spent about four hours over the past couple of days playing with both my Luke and this EVH through my Marshall AVT50 combo. I played with both neck and bridge pickups, in both clean and distortion channels, to try to gain a familiarity with the different sounds produced by the two guitars. My picking sucks, so I limited myself to mostly just playing major chords.

Compared to the Luke, the EVH (and by extension, the Axis, I'd guess) seems warmer, fuller, and louder, with more balls...but muddy.

Compared to the EVH, the Luke is cleaner, more crisp, but also somewhat sterile, not unlike comparing a recording on CD to vinyl. And the Luke has some nice single coil sounds that the EVH couldn't come close to reproducing.

The Luke can growl with its bridge pickup, but it's like standing in front of a huge speaker, listening to a digital recording of a lion roaring, whereas the EVH is like standing in front of a real lion.

I'd appreciate any comments regarding the above, which will help improve my understanding of the differences between these instruments in particular, active vs. passive pickups in general, and single coil vs. humbuckers as well.

 

[Lew]

Eilif

Try and get a hold of an AXIS sport or super sport with the 2 extra split coil options that do come quite close to single coil tone

 

[Jimi D]

I think your evaluation is valid Eilif - it's quite close to my impressions of the Luke; refined, controlled, maybe a little sterile... I think Steve L. uses lots of amp and processing power to get his sound, so having a clean palate to start is a bonus for him, I'm sure, but I prefer the rawk'n'roar of a kick-ass pickup with lots of personality - it hides my lack of technical ability better!

 

[kbaim]

I love the Lukes for clean tone fingerpicking. I just find them consistent and smooth over all 6 strings

Some people have commented before on the sterile sound, but I think they sound great and the luke really seems to sound great with just about any amp I've played it through.

My axiss ss with hums IS louder than my luke until you split the coils where there is a significand reduction in output.

Keith

 

[kbaim]

BTW

If you're just starting out, after major chords, try learning some minor chord shapes along the neck which are usually just one finger different than major.

 

[PurpleSport]

Compared to the Luke, the EVH (and by extension, the Axis, I'd guess) seems warmer, fuller, and louder, with more balls...but muddy.

Compared to the EVH, the Luke is cleaner, more crisp, but also somewhat sterile, not unlike comparing a recording on CD to vinyl. And the Luke has some nice single coil sounds that the EVH couldn't come close to reproducing.

The Luke can growl with its bridge pickup, but it's like standing in front of a huge speaker, listening to a digital recording of a lion roaring, whereas the EVH is like standing in front of a real lion.

I'd appreciate any comments regarding the above, which will help improve my understanding of the differences between these instruments in particular, active vs. passive pickups in general, and single coil vs. humbuckers as well.

Eilif - I also A/B-ed an Axis and a Luke at moderate volume in the Guitar Center here in Manhattan recently, and I think your assessment matches mine pretty much to a "T". Even my non-musician girlfriend could easily tell the apples vs. oranges difference, favoring the Luke by far (of course, it could also have been the Radiance Red paintjob, her fave color! ). Gotta admit, made it much easier to justify buying my Luke when the opportunity came up a couple weeks ago!

I'd speculate that the two main factors causing the Axis to sound wooly-er than Luke is it's basswood body (heavy on mids) and hot pickups. I was truly surprised at how different the two guitars sounded, and that the Axis sounded so much darker even with the Floyd.

Regarding the "sterility" aspect of the EMGs, I'm inclined to agree there as well. There's just not as much airiness to them, and a lot more of a "compressed" quality that chops off the top end snappiness and attack of the strings hitting the fretboard and pick. Not as big a deal if you're using distortion a lot - an asset there, in fact - but very noticeable with cleaner amp settings if you like things with some twang, like I do. I've found that I'm having to enable the "EQ pedal" setting in my Boss GT-6 to try and get some of that high-end juice back on all the patches I'm making for my Luke; it's not a cure-all, but it helps a bit.

I did send an e-mail query to EMG about the loss of high-end yesterday, and they got back to me within minutes with some good info and suggestions for their expander circuits to try. I'll try to get the details here or into a similar thread about Lukes and EMGs I recently posted, as I have some followup questions I wanted to get clarified (and I want to get the tech's permission before I post publicly). BTW, you'll especially want to stay tuned because one of the questions I asked specifically addressed your earlier posting about using EMGs with the Axis!

Despite this, I think the Luke is quite a versatile guitar, and I find myself at work itching to go home and try to discover more tones with it. Although it's taking a bit more work than usual, I find I'm getting a lot of different sounds out of it. I think with active pickups you have keep an open mind and rethink how you do things a little bit, because you technically have a more level tonal playing field which actually gives you a lot more to work with. Time will tell if I ultimately find it worth the extra aggro or not, but so far it's a fun new toy!

 

[Eilif]

Try and get a hold of an AXIS sport or super sport with the 2 extra split coil options that do come quite close to single coil tone

Well, by golly, whaddaya know...I just downloaded the "Control Function Diagram" for the Axis SS--I'd no idea that you could split the coils like that. Thanks for the heads up! The EVH certainly can't do that.

The Luke sounds great, but I was surprised by the roar (and subsequently the warmth) of the EVH when I plugged it in. It certainly hides my mistakes better than the Luke does.

I've been considering the Super Sport as a replacement for my Luke (I can't have both. ) But the Super Sport's ability to split coils just gave it a big boost in its standing vs. the Luke as it is much more versatile than I thought it was, and versatility is a strength of the Luke.

 

[Eilif]

Eilif - I also A/B-ed an Axis and a Luke at moderate volume in the Guitar Center here in Manhattan recently...

I wished I could have A/B-ed. For me it was plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug, plug, unplug...

...you get the picture.

 

[PurpleSport]

I wished I could have A/B-ed. For me it was plug, unplug, plug, unplug, <generous snip>...you get the picture.

Well, it wasn't a true A/B switching thing, per se...I pretty much did the same thing as you, but I didn't have the luxury of time or such a generous shop owner to let me take a guitar home so I did a lot less!

Didn't really need to do a whole lotta swappin', tho. The difference in tones was IMMEDIATELY apparent, and I was surprised to find myself gettin' in the groove a lot quicker on the Luke than I did the Axis, esp. considering how much I've dug the neck on the latter over the years. Then again, I've historically liked guitars with EMGs for rockin' sounds like the amp I was using had (cleans have always been a different matter, as mentioned earlier), so in a way it didn't surprise me either.

I'd definitely try seeking out an Axis SS if I were you to sample those single coil tones...DiMarzios do the split personality thing exceptionally well, from my experience. I personally think a lot of their split coil sounds are many times more happening than the humbucker they've been sprouted from...

 

[kbaim]

I'd definitely try seeking out an Axis SS if I were you to sample those single coil tones...DiMarzios do the split personality thing exceptionally well, from my experience. I personally think a lot of their split coil sounds are many times more happening than the humbucker they've been sprouted from...

Agree with Purp here. I can't/won't use the neck bucker on my ss as it's too dark for my taste. Positions 1,2,3,4 work for me though.

Position 2 (bridge plus middle) on Luke seems too similar to just the bridge alone and therefore gets little use by me.

Your tastes may vary.

 

[dwf1004]

Well, by golly, whaddaya know...I just downloaded the "Control Function Diagram" for the Axis SS--I'd no idea that you could split the coils like that. Thanks for the heads up! The EVH certainly can't do that.

Yes, that is correct...the EVH was not designed that way. It was simply:

neck --> both --> bridge

That was your choices, especially considering the p/u's only were two wire p/u's. After the EVH/EBMM split, EBMM and DiMarzio added a third wire into the mix so that they could implement a 5-way switch scenario at the request of their customers.

I did have the opportunity to have an ASS in my house for a day, actually...last December, I bought the one that a gent had sold here on the board (you may remember him, he won it at the GC giveaway, etc.). I was pretty pleased with it, and thought that it was nice. Not to disqualify the guitar, but I personally wanted true single coil. I ultimately went with the Sil Spec SSS that I have currently.

Off topic, I'm sure that you're asking: why did you only have it one day? I had it shipped from NJ and the cat that I bought it from. It arrived that afternoon, and I took in the new guitar smell, and played her for about 2 hours. Later that night, I sold it locally to one of our good soldiers preparing to go to Iraq, and had just had his car broken into the week previous, losing his Axis at the time. Best way, IMO, to help out a fellow guitarist, a person in need, and pardon my patriotism here, but a fellow American doing the kind of work that I could never ever see myself doing.

 

[Eddie Van Halen]

Axis' are better than the EVH guitar, the pickups are different and in my opinion better

and i dont need single coil pickups for the music i play humbuckers to fine for me from stairway to heaven to poundcake

 

[PurpleSport]

Agree with Purp here. I can't/won't use the neck bucker on my ss as it's too dark for my taste. Positions 1,2,3,4 work for me though.

Dude...have three words for ya: DiMarzio PAF Pro.

Ever considered trying one? Great all-around medium output neck pickup, warm but nice high end, split tones are wonderful when paired with other pickups. Not expensive, either!

Position 2 (bridge plus middle) on Luke seems too similar to just the bridge alone and therefore gets little use by me.

Yep, I agree on this one too. I do notice that this tendency is more apparent when distortion/overdrive/preamp gain is applied, but the edge does get more pronounced when using the clean amp models on my GT-6. I'm considering swapping the 85 for an 89 in the future to get more of a truer single coil sound from the rear and rear/mid combo positions (well, at least as true as it can get for an EMG), but for now I'll live with it.

BTW, it's probably not impossible to get a good clean sound from EMGs, it just takes a bit of work...sometimes. Believe it or not, a couple years ago I actually got one of the most authentic Mark Knopfler "Sultans Of Swing" tones I've ever heard with a small-bodied, SA-equipped Steinberger, of all things - it was a complete freak of nature that I stumbled into that sound while checking out the amp and cable connections right after plugging in. I don't remember what amp I was using, but I'm seeming to remember a modern era Marshall combo for some reason, which is even scarier ...maybe lightning will strike twice with the 89SA-SLV pairing!

 

[NorM]

Purple,

Go with the 89! You will Love it! I wanted to suggest this to you earlier but I figured your were a smart guy and you would figure it out soon enough. I am thinking of moving my 89 from the necks to the bridge on my silos to get that single coil sound on the trebbely sound.

 

[Dodgeball]

Purple,

Go with the 89! You will Love it! I wanted to suggest this to you earlier but I figured your were a smart guy and you would figure it out soon enough. I am thinking of moving my 89 from the necks to the bridge on my silos to get that single coil sound on the trebbely sound.

Not sure that I'm all that sold on the 89, in personal preference I would go for a 60 in the bridge (with an alnico magnet which I believe EMG now produce for this application) and install an SPC instead of the tone control. This should give a more individual sound to the bridge/middle position as well as providing many more tone options across the whole instrument. The lead sound from the bridge 60 with the SPC full on should be lush too.

Of course it depends if u use the tone control much, I never seem to touch it myself.

On another matter...EVH AFAIK the pickups in the Axis and the EVH are identical with the exception of four conductor wiring in the Axis, is this what u were referring to or do you believe there to be more significant tonal differences?

Cheers

 

[dwf1004]

Yes, you are correct...the pickups are the same, and this has been confirmed by EBMM.

The only post-EVH change for them was the addition of additional wiring to allow for 5-way switch options.

 

[kbaim]

Thanks Purp,

May have to eventually try the PAF PRO.

As far as the Luke, Is there any way to rewire to split the bridge in POS 2, or do you need the 89 to do that.

Anyone? Bueller?

 

[PurpleSport]

Hey Keith -

I seems there's no way to get such a split coil effect from the 85...it's like the original EVH pickups in that you're stuck in humbucker mode permanently with it, even in position 2 (although I think some phase cancellation may natually occur, as it doesn't sound like the total output of both pickups to me - I've seen this in the same scenario with passive humbuckers too).

The 89 is their way of how it was approached by EBMM with the Axis Super Sport, constructed to give more tonal flexibility while keeping the spirit of the original 85 pickup intact.

From what I gather with my simple mind, essentially the basic construction of the 89 (and to a lesser degree the 85) is two SA single coils put side by side in one housing, with maybe some physical rearranging of magnets and preamps. Kinda reminds me of a more complicated version of what Fender did with the Lace Sensors to make the "humbucker" of the first generation Jeff Beck Strats and their late 80s/early 90s Strat Deluxes.

As a side note, it appears this is NOT the case with their 81 model. I asked them about this several years ago, and it seems that the 81 is a completely different animal, and isn't a simple matter of two S models being wired together (I believe their literature refers to a single "U" shaped coil for the 81). Apparently I'm not the only one who's asked about this, as it's now one of the FAQs on the EMG site! I personally would like to see a product like this, as I actually prefer the 81's edgier tone.

Oh, speaking of happening passive humbucker tones for your Axis, the DiMarzio FRED makes a very interesting neck pickup too (it's essentially a slighty juiced up PAF Pro with a bit more mids - I've even got Satriani's personal word to confirm this when they first came out). I have one in my HSH configured Steinberger clone with a push/pull pot to make all the humbuckers single coil, and and it has a fantastic sound in that mode. And in humbucking mode, it does indeed have harmonics in the neck position as advertised...pretty wild!

 

[kbaim]

Getting all 3 Lukes worked on next week at Trutone in Santa Monica.
They come highly recommended (though not as high as Jon).

Some fret filing and I think my bluedawn jack is whacked. I haven't heard so much raspy clicking and popping since my cousin with tourrettes syndrome.

May have to order a Albert Lee sss honeyburst one of these days. Maybe next week

 

[OrangeChannel]

Some fret filing and I think my bluedawn jack is whacked. I haven't heard so much raspy clicking and popping since my cousin with tourrettes syndrome.