Beautiful guitar

[fogman]

I don't recall this being posted, but I came across this.

 

[Siddius]

What does this guitar really offer that is particularly different? Weird body shape? finished neck? Mahogany body? Switch in an annoying location? It seems to me that adding options to the silhouette wouldn't have made enough of a splash, so it became a new project all together- kinda like the Fingered American Elite -

Those American Elite's are a joke, so I retract some of my comparison. "Hey, let's steal the truss rod design from Music Man and the neck design from Jackson, add them to our American Deluxes, then bump the price up a couple hundred bucks." The Silhouette, and I imagine the Stingray as well, smokes 'em

 

[BrickGlass]

I can't bash Fender for the new Elite series. I understand that many of the features aren't exactly original, but damn near every company "stole" ideas from Fender. The Elite series I've played have been great. I'd absolutely love to play one of the Cutlass or Stingray guitars as I'm sure they are excellent as well.

 

[BUC]

What does this guitar really offer that is particularly different? Weird body shape? finished neck? Mahogany body? Switch in an annoying location? It seems to me that adding options to the silhouette wouldn't have made enough of a splash, so it became a new project all together- kinda like the Fingered American Elite -

I've played the Stingray and I loved it. Not a fan of the pickup switch location but I don't thing it's a deal breaker for a guitar that only has 3 selections and the tone/vol knobs are really where you'll do a lot of your tone control.

So I'm not sure where you're coming from on this. It's not like no one notices the shape or style of a guitar. Hell, people lose their minds over this kind of thing.That alone is a big deal.

Plus it's a bigger body and made of mahogany. That's going to have big tonal differences. I haven't checked out the strap lock position but that's a HUGE deal in how a guitar fits your body when standing.

I really didn't think I needed another guitar and now that I've played one of these I'm seriously jonesing for one. Gotta finish the kitchen remodel first or the wife will kill me, but it's definitely on the list.

 

[Eilif]

Nice find, Foggy.

It's interesting that of all the guitars at their disposal, they chose the Stingray with which to demo the pedal. I'd love to know what their rationale was. (Not criticizing the choice one way or another -- just curious.)

 

[Siddius]

@Brick. My point was that they seemed to try to advance the deluxe line every year or so, but this time when they changed features they decided to bump the price.

@buc. Serious question, what's actually different about it? Neck profile? Tone? Pickups? Could those not have been options on the Silhouette? Even if they could have been, they wouldn't have made a splash. I have always thought of EBMM stuff as fairly innovative and purposeful, and I'm not sure of the purpose to these new models. The new artist models are of course custom models, so they make sense and are really cool to boot.

 

[beej]

I don't know that they really need a rationale for developing a new model, other than they think there will be demand for it.

For example ... the Silhouette doesn't work for everyone. It didn't sell so well in the SSS config, so the Silhouette Special was born. Different neck & body, different pickups. You could argue that it's so similar to the Silhouette that why bother ... but it appeals to a different buyer and so both have stayed.

By the same token, the HH AL is close to the SSS AL. Same shape, same neck profile. But different woods, pickups, and it's really a different guitar for a different buyer.

Anyhow ... the point is to produce guitars that sell. If they think they have a formula that works based on market research, distributor feedback, etc., then who are we to say?

 

[Eilif]

I think the biggest difference between the Stingray (and Cutlass) and the Silhouettes is the larger body and headstock and their effect on tone. I've heard criticism of how the compact size of the guitars up until now has an adverse effect on tone: they sound "okay" but not "great", even after trying different pickups. I see the new Stingray and Cutlass guitars as a departure from thirty years of EBMM guitar design: bigger body (and bigger or better sound?) as well as lower price.

Otherwise, how is the Cutlass different from the Silhouette Special, i.e. what rationale for its existence? I ask rhetorically, but this is my guess.

 

[Siddius]

I was gonna add, they're far more experienced business people than I, so I'm sure that these have good potential. It kinda seems to me that these newer models are meant to cater more to the indie/hipster market. I would love to see the silhouette have the larger headstock. It looks really cool and probably has more room for those clip on tuners. I'm also a fan of the weight of most of their guitars, so I probably wouldn't want the body any bigger.

There's nothing wrong with more models, so my questions come more from the perspective of someone who's already got some balls. Why should someone in my position be interested?

 

[John C]

I think the biggest difference between the Stingray (and Cutlass) and the Silhouettes is the larger body and headstock and their effect on tone. I've heard criticism of how the compact size of the guitars up until now has an adverse effect on tone: they sound "okay" but not "great", even after trying different pickups. I see the new Stingray and Cutlass guitars as a departure from thirty years of EBMM guitar design: bigger body (and bigger or better sound?) as well as lower price.

Otherwise, how is the Cutlass different from the Silhouette Special, i.e. what rationale for its existence? I ask rhetorically, but this is my guess.

I can give you a real-world answer. The Cutlass is definitely in the wheelhouse of a vintage Stratocaster. A Silo Special is not. And this comes from someone who has owned 3 Silo Specials (all SSS, all with the vintage tremolo) plus an Albert Lee, but cycled through them in search of the traditional Strat tone. The Silo Special is a small guitar, and it has a narrow/focused sound that is close but does not capture the essence of a vintage Strat. My cycle was buy the EBMM for playability, but tire of the narrow/focused tone and move it for something more vintage-sounding. Get tired of the playability of the replacement, then buy another EBMM. As I say I also tried the Albert Lee, but that also doesn't get you there. Both are fine guitars, but both have their own thing going on. I really think that the Silo Special is probably best as it is being sold now - a modern HSS design.

The with the Cutlass EBMM has simultaneously revived a Leo body shape (the Sabre guitar shape), cracked the DNA of the Stratocaster sound, and retained the EBMM playability. And managed to do it at a price point that kills the competition. In Fender terms the Cutlass sounds like a Vintage Reissue, has modern features comparable to the Deluxe/Elite models, and is priced closer to the Standard. It's hard to beat that combo, and will likely be my next purchase.

I was gonna add, they're far more experienced business people than I, so I'm sure that these have good potential. It kinda seems to me that these newer models are meant to cater more to the indie/hipster market. I would love to see the silhouette have the larger headstock. It looks really cool and probably has more room for those clip on tuners. I'm also a fan of the weight of most of their guitars, so I probably wouldn't want the body any bigger.

There's nothing wrong with more models, so my questions come more from the perspective of someone who's already got some balls. Why should someone in my position be interested?

I don't know if EBMM was going for the hipster/indie market with the StingRay; it seems like they just wanted to revive Leo's first guitar design but update it by removing the oddball active electronics. But with it's "offset meets Strat" look it will probably appeal to that market as well as those of us old enough to remember Leo's originals (they were out while I was in high school; MM's original guitar run ended about the time I started college). I'm a single coil guy; I've played the StingRay but didn't spend all that much time with it so I'm probably not the best judge, and it's been about 13 years since I last played a "regular" Silhouette. But it seemed to be more in the SG territory.

With regards to weight - both the StingRay and the Cutlass I played weren't all that heavy; I believe I've read that the bodies are slightly thinner than other models.

Why should you be interested? If you're satisfied with your Silhouettes and they fit your style of music than maybe you wouldn't be interested. If you're looking for a change of pace that will be immediately familiar in terms of playability, then it would be worth checking out.

 

[Siddius]

Great answer. Very helpful, and the Leo aspect makes a lot of sense. I would definitely relate the Silhouette with a Strat, though. To me it falls under he Strat umbrella, about exactly in the middle of the vintage Strat to super Strat spectrum.

I've always thought of it this way, if you're buying new, go G & L for a classic Strat, go Ebmm for a modernized/ergonomic Strat, Jackson and Parker for full fledged super starts. Oh, and of course, go American.

G & L Classic Strat
EBMM
Charvel
Jackson/ Ibanez Super Strat
Parker. Freak Strat

Companies like Suhr and Carvin do about everything in between.
Notice the absence of Fender

 

[John C]

Great answer. Very helpful, and the Leo aspect makes a lot of sense. I would definitely relate the Silhouette with a Strat, though. To me it falls under he Strat umbrella, about exactly in the middle of the vintage Strat to super Strat spectrum.

I've always thought of it this way, if you're buying new, go G & L for a classic Strat, go Ebmm for a modernized/ergonomic Strat, Jackson and Parker for full fledged super starts. Oh, and of course, go American.

G & L Classic Strat
EBMM
Charvel
Jackson/ Ibanez Super Strat
Parker. Freak Strat

Companies like Suhr and Carvin do about everything in between.
Notice the absence of Fender

I also consider the Silhouette (and Silo Special) to be part of the Strat's "extended family". As part of my back-and-forth I would also bounce between modern channel-switching amps and single channel non-master amps with pedals - the Silo Specials sounded fine with the modern amps, but when I switched to the more vintage-style amps that is when I would find it missing some of the "strat magic" I was looking for. The Cutlass has that in spades - personally I've never gotten along with G&L's Strat-types (but I like the Tele-types) so in your listing the Cutlass could replace G&L.

The StingRay is really something else - almost like the offspring of a modern superstrat (for playability) with a mid-60s SG (tone pallet).

 

[threeminutesboy]

The most interesting thing here is the presence of the trem on this stingray!!

Is it me or if I remember correctly the stingray was initially announced as a hardtail only guitar.

Can anyone confirm?

 

[John C]

The most interesting thing here is the presence of the trem on this stingray!!

Is it me or if I remember correctly the stingray was initially announced as a hardtail only guitar.

Can anyone confirm?

That is my memory as well - both the StingRay and the Sabre were hard-tail only. That prototype Cutlass that was in Tom Walker's collection had a Kahler flat-mount tremolo, but that never went into production. I did come across some photos of a Leo-era MM a few months ago where the hard-tail was modded to a tremolo, but now I can't remember if that was a StingRay or a Sabre.