Bongo Nut

[HELLonWHEELS]

I have been messing with the action on my Bongo. I brought the action down all the way and its still a bit high. I'm thinking the nut could be abnormally high. I have over a 1mm between the G string and first fret with the action as low as it can go. Do I need to shave the nut down a bit?


Brandon

 

[adouglas]

Insufficient information.

Do you have a full understanding of setup procedures?

What have you done to the trussrod?

What have you done to the bridge?

When did this turn up? Was the bass okay and you suddenly developed a problem? If so, did you do anything unusual just before it showed up (e.g., change string gauge)?

Did you get the bass new, or used? (It came from the factory properly set up...promise.)

Do you have the factory specs for relief and string height (available from the FAQ)? How far off is your bass from factory spec?

Have you done what everybody here is going to tell you to do anyway and called customer service?

String height is dependent upon several things that are all interrelated. One of them is the depth of the nut slots.

The QC on MM basses is very, very, VERY good. Chances are whatever is going on with yours can be easily corrected by adjusting one or more of the....well....adjustable items.

Chances are really good that there's nothing wrong...just a maladjustment. If you muck about with both the bridge and the trussrod without an adequate understanding of how they interrelate, you can get yourself into what looks like a horrible mess real fast. In fact, it's no biggie...but you need to understand what's going on.

 

[HELLonWHEELS]

Insufficient information.

Do you have a full understanding of setup procedures?

What have you done to the trussrod?

What have you done to the bridge?

When did this turn up? Was the bass okay and you suddenly developed a problem? If so, did you do anything unusual just before it showed up (e.g., change string gauge)?

Did you get the bass new, or used? (It came from the factory properly set up...promise.)

Do you have the factory specs for relief and string height (available from the FAQ)? How far off is your bass from factory spec?

Have you done what everybody here is going to tell you to do anyway and called customer service?

String height is dependent upon several things that are all interrelated. One of them is the depth of the nut slots.

The QC on MM basses is very, very, VERY good. Chances are whatever is going on with yours can be easily corrected by adjusting one or more of the....well....adjustable items.

Chances are really good that there's nothing wrong...just a maladjustment. If you muck about with both the bridge and the trussrod without an adequate understanding of how they interrelate, you can get yourself into what looks like a horrible mess real fast. In fact, it's no biggie...but you need to understand what's going on.

I have a good understanding of setups i have read the sadowsky and all the other tutorials. I have a good amount of practice setting up my Squier as a practice.

I have done nothing to the bridge other than mess the action( no intonation stuff). I have done gotten rid of the all the buzz by turning the truss rod( neck was to straight when I got it)

There isn't a problem the strings are just too high it has always been this way. It isn't the truss rod its the nut. I'm almost positive.

Brandon

 

[adouglas]

Okay, there's just one more thing. Since you evidently have an understanding of what everything does, you should also know that doing things in the correct order is important.

1) Tune to pitch.
2) Adjust relief by tweaking the trussrod.
3) Re-tune to pitch.
4) Adjust string height (if necessary) by tweaking the bridge saddles.
5) Re-tune to pitch.
6) Adjust intonation (if necessary) by tweaking the bridge saddles.

Since everything is dependent on everything else, you need to do it all in the correct order or you'll get it all out of whack.

Assuming you've done this, then I'd suggest taking it to a good guitar tech as the next step. Again, chances are very, very, VERY small that the nut was cut wrong.

If I were handed a bass that was all screwed up action-wise, I'd follow the exact sequence outlined above, without exception. And maybe do it all over again after a day or so, just to make sure everything's settled down.

Caveat: I'm not a guitar tech. I'm just a guy who's been playing long enough to feel comfortable doing his own setups. If anyone knows better, feel free to correct me.

 

[HELLonWHEELS]

I have done all that you mention except the intonation part. I bought the bass new and the neck came to straight so I loosed the truss rod a bit and lowered the action. I kept lowering it and then I realized I want it lower but can go no farther. I'm just wondering if my nut is a bit higher than most. Like I said I got just over a 1mm form the G string to the first fret. I don't know how that compares to other EBMM basses.

 

[midopa]

Hmm Have you given CS a call?

Normal setup is 3/32" or 2.4mm string height at the 12th fret. I'm not sure what that translates to at the 1st fret, tho.

 

[adouglas]

I have done all that you mention except the intonation part. I bought the bass new and the neck came to straight so I loosed the truss rod a bit and lowered the action. I kept lowering it and then I realized I want it lower but can go no farther. I'm just wondering if my nut is a bit higher than most. Like I said I got just over a 1mm form the G string to the first fret. I don't know how that compares to other EBMM basses.

Okay, sounds like you've got yourself crossed up.

Loosening the trussrod raises the action. If you then try to re-lower it by lowering the bridge saddles and set it to avoid buzz on the upper frets, you wind up with a relatively high action on the lower and middle frets.

I'd suggest starting over from scratch and following the exact sequence in the previous post...relief first (which if you do it correctly is independent of string height...hold the string down at the first fret and also at the 15th fret, then check relief at the 7th fret), then overall height.

I should note here that I've owned my fretted Bongo for over 18 months and have never had to touch the saddles at all. Trussrod adjustments happen as needed, maybe three times a year. I've gotten to the point that I don't even need to measure relief. I know if it's off by feel and by looking at it. This should give you an idea of how important the trussrod is relative to the saddles.

 

[maddog]

I'm not sure what you mean by "too straight". I have found that bongo's don't need much relief. Close to straight or even straight should work well. It may be you have too much relief raising your action too much around frets 1-5. I'll dig up Gav's setup instructions and post when I get home. They may help.

 

[Ken Baker]

The setup procedure for most every bass is at least a little bit different. I've found the EBMM procedure to be notably different than that used for any other non-EBMM bass I have in the herd.

You have a new bass with a new nut coming from a company that gets very high marks for QC and as-shipped setup. The chances of anything being wrong with the nut are slim to none. As mentioned previously, and inferred below, Bongo necks need to be pretty straight. I'm guessing that you have over-tweaked your trussrod resulting in too-high action.

My recommendations:

1. Read the snippet from the FAQ below and re-do your setup.

2. Call Customer Service if this still leaves you with too-high action.

Q: How do I set up my Music Man bass?

A: First check relief in the neck by holding the lowest string down on the 2nd fret with your fretting (left) hand. Then, hold the same string down on the 12th fret with your plucking thumb and tap on the string in the middle to see how straight the neck is. There should be no more than the thickness of a business card between the string and the frets. If there is no relief in the neck, a little pressure in the middle of the neck (after adjusting the trussrod wheel) should help.
The standard string gauge is .45-.100 with a .130 on the low "B" for the 5 string at 440 tuning. If you decide to tune down, typically you would increase the gauge for every 1/2 step downward that you tune. This will keep most of the measurements close by having more tension on the neck.

Factory String heights are: Bass side 3/32 to 7/64 Treble side: 5/64" to 7/64" from the top of the 12th fret to the bottom of the string. The rest of the strings should have the radius of the fretboard when looking at the top of the string, (with the A string hidden from view by the E string, etc.), rotating the bass at the same time. The "right" string height is, of course, ultimately determined by your playing style.
The pickup should be 4/32" to 5/32" on the bass side and slightly closer (4/32" to 5/32" on the treble side. This is determined by tuning and volume of strings measured by the top of the pole piece to the bottom of the strings. If the G string needs more volume, adjust it slightly more toward the pickup. Again, if you tune down, more distance is needed here, as well; but in any case, no lower than 4/32".

If fret buzz occurs from the open to the fifth fret, the neck needs more relief. If it buzzes between the 5th fret and the 12th fret, the neck needs to be straighter (turn the wheel slightly clockwise). If it occurs all over the neck, the string height need to increase (by turning the trussrod wheel slightly counter-clockwise).

For intonation: Check the harmonics to the fretted note on the 12th note on the twelfth fret if you don't play much above that fret. If you do, also check the harmonics at the 19th fret after the 12th fret is set. If the fretted note is sharp, you need to make the string longer by turning the saddle screw counterclockwise, and vice versa. Make sure that the string are coming off of the saddle straight and not in an arch. All measurements must be rechecked after each adjustment.

Good luck with that!

Ken...

 

[HELLonWHEELS]

Okay, sounds like you've got yourself crossed up.

Loosening the trussrod raises the action. If you then try to re-lower it by lowering the bridge saddles and set it to avoid buzz on the upper frets, you wind up with a relatively high action on the lower and middle frets.

I'd suggest starting over from scratch and following the exact sequence in the previous post...relief first (which if you do it correctly is independent of string height...hold the string down at the first fret and also at the 15th fret, then check relief at the 7th fret), then overall height.

I should note here that I've owned my fretted Bongo for over 18 months and have never had to touch the saddles at all. Trussrod adjustments happen as needed, maybe three times a year. I've gotten to the point that I don't even need to measure relief. I know if it's off by feel and by looking at it. This should give you an idea of how important the trussrod is relative to the saddles.

Sorry I got the terminology mixed up. I was lowering the fretboard for sure. I just checked my relief and just like all the tutorials I have read said I can fit a credit card under the string( with a just tad bit of room). I still have a higher than my preference action across the whole fretboard.


The too straight thing is what the FAQ said. I turned the trussrod to counter like the FAQ said.



EDIT: I also have a Piezo bridge which is probably why I can't lower the action as much the normal non-piezo bridges.

 

[maddog]

I just checked my relief and just like all the tutorials I have read said I can fit a credit card under the string( with a just tad bit of room).

Without seeing it in person and not knowing your bass, this sounds like too much relief. I usually shoot for barely being able to slide a business card between the string and the 6th fret when fretting at 1 and 12.

Can't find Gav's setup steps. Will try a forum search later tonight. In the least would be nice to have a copy on my powerbook again. If anyone else can find it sooner, please post.

 

[adouglas]

Yeah, a credit card thickness is way too much relief IMHO. A business card is about right. Check those tutorials again....

I set mine by fretting at the first fret with my left hand, fretting around the 15th fret with my right, and tapping the string at the midpoint (7th fret).

(Note that some say 12th fret, some say 15th, some say higher up...it's actually not all that critical in my experience. I use the 15th because the distance between the 7th and 15th is something I can span with my hand.)

If I can hear the string hit the fret at the 7th, but not actually feel it move, then that's about right for me.