pjc812
Well-known member
lube?
Question - Have you tried some 3 in 1 Oil to reduce some of the friction?
Question - Have you tried some 3 in 1 Oil to reduce some of the friction?
- Thread starter the24thfret
- Start date
the24thfret
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- Jan 4, 2007
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No, I haven't. I installed the Tremol-no as it came in the box.
loudlove69
New member
Ok, but why??
Did you install this device? - was it beccause it was not staying in tune?? LIKE MINE!!
Or was there another reason for it - I come from the land of FLOYD - and the newer Ibanez ZR trem - I just went to the JP LE 2007 - but I am not happy at all so far.
Is it just me or do others not like spending this much $$$ and then make these changes to make things work the way they advertise them to?
I am about to throw in the towel here on MM - and go back to Ibanez.
Did you install this device? - was it beccause it was not staying in tune?? LIKE MINE!!
Or was there another reason for it - I come from the land of FLOYD - and the newer Ibanez ZR trem - I just went to the JP LE 2007 - but I am not happy at all so far.
Is it just me or do others not like spending this much $$$ and then make these changes to make things work the way they advertise them to?
I am about to throw in the towel here on MM - and go back to Ibanez.
LoudLove69, call me toll free @ 866-823-2255 and we can get this figured out. Your guitar isn't functioning as it's supposed to. We've got a great group here at the factory that will be more than willing to help. Don't throw in the towel!
the24thfret
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- Jan 4, 2007
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A bit of a thread hijack, no?
I came from Ibanez as well and the JP trem is a huge improvement. I installed a Tremol-no because I wanted the ability to do alternate tunings on the fly without needing a total setup. I did NOT install it because the JP didn't stay in tune... the stock JP stays in tune very, very well.
I came from Ibanez as well and the JP trem is a huge improvement. I installed a Tremol-no because I wanted the ability to do alternate tunings on the fly without needing a total setup. I did NOT install it because the JP didn't stay in tune... the stock JP stays in tune very, very well.
Kevan
Well-known member
Chris- If I may, I'd like to address some of the points you made in your review of the Tremol-No.
- Installation
From your description, you kind of did it the hard way. In the install videos I tell folks to setup the guitar as you normally would with a regular claw, but using the Tremol-No Claw/Shaft assy. This assures you that once you get your alignment set (later), your "feel" will remain the same. It's also why I show the masking tape tip so players can get back to where they were before.
The set screws on the claw is a little tough, but I also talk about that in the install videos.
- Do the setup of the trem, get it where you want it.
- Lock the set screws on the T-No claw.
- Then unlock the set screws, JUST SLIGHTLY. They only need to be loose enough to allow the claw screws to be adjusted.
This prevents any additional claw movement (up, down, left, right) when it comes time to finally lock the set screws in place.
The entire setup of the guitar should be done with the "back half" (Receiver & Tailpiece) un-attached.
If installed properly, with no binding between parts, you should not be able to feel the Tremol-No when you use the trem.
At all.
If you are still feeling it, tiny adjustments of the claw screws need to be made (I'm talking 1/32nd of a turn).
If you are feeling a difference in your trem, it's possible that you have setup the trem *ever so slightly* different than it was originally when you installed the T-No claw.
- Deep C Issue
If your Deep-C is slipping, you have a couple of options.
1. Roughen up the face of the thumbscrew for the Deep-C. This will give it better grip on the Shaft. Any small file will do, even a metal emery board (check with the girlfriend; she's got a few).
2. Use the set screw instead (included). Once tight, I promise that sucker won't budge. Be careful not to scar the Shaft though.
- Dive Only Issue
To properly engage Dive Only mode (from Full Floating mode):
- Lock the 2 thumbscrews on the Receiver.
- Slide the Deep-C into place up against the front face of the Receiver.
- Lock the thumbscrew on the Deep-C.
- UNlock the 2 thumbscrews on the Receiver.
If you are doing it that way, then Dive Only mode should function properly (barring any problems with the trem function itself).
If you are not locking the thumbscrews on the Receiver first, you are probably pushing *ever so slightly* on the face of the Receiver as you set the Deep-C. This will push you slightly flat, and when the trem tries to come back to neutral, it will try to push on the Deep-C harder than necessary.
The thumbscrews are a safety. They are designed to slip! This prevents damage to your guitar (ripped out claw screws suck), the trem, and the Tremol-No.
- Complication
I can understand where you're coming with this, but it's only temporary. As folks learn that they now have options, they will learn how to use them properly. No one knew how to drive a car back in 1908; now we all do it while reading the paper, talking on the phone, putting on make-up, jacking....oops....sorry. Little tangent there.
I honestly don't believe that trem newbies need to "give up". They can, of course, but they will be limiting themselves and their guitar right from the get-go.
Also, we're not talking about a doctorate in Astrophysics. We're talking about a couple of hours to learn how a trem works and why it does what it does (and doesn't do what it doesn't do). Is that really too much to ask?
- Live & Studio
I've heard from many players about how they love to use the Tremol-No both live and in the studio.
Why?
In a live setting, they keep the same guitar but can do different things with it. Hardcore chickin'-pickin' for one song, then a VH cover the next, then a Satch cover after that.
Same guitar.
Same tone.
Same feel.
Takes 3 seconds to switch between modes.
I've also received tons of thanks from players that used to take 3-4 guitars to practice. Now they only have to haul around 1 or 2.
It's much the same in the studio. Sometimes you've got a tone that you love, but need a hardtail to pull off that lick in tune. In the past that meant switching to a Tele or LP.
Now, just put the T-No in Hardtail mode and hit "REC".
Done.
One place I didn't really think about was for teachers. One of my testers is a full-time guitar teacher. He put a Tremol-No on his 'in class' guitar and uses the set screws to keep it in Hardtail mode permanently. This way, his whammy-wanting students are stumped.
I'm happy to help out with any other tech questions you may have. The T-No site has a forum, but it's down right now but should be up soon (we just moved to a new server). Email still works great, and the phone is always on. I try to visit my favorite guitar forums regularly (like this one), but there are only so many hours in a day. I like this crowd though, so I'll try a little harder to make it here more frequently.
I'm glad you're happy with your Tremol-No, but I'm sure with a bit of tweaking we can get it 100%.
- Installation
From your description, you kind of did it the hard way. In the install videos I tell folks to setup the guitar as you normally would with a regular claw, but using the Tremol-No Claw/Shaft assy. This assures you that once you get your alignment set (later), your "feel" will remain the same. It's also why I show the masking tape tip so players can get back to where they were before.
The set screws on the claw is a little tough, but I also talk about that in the install videos.
- Do the setup of the trem, get it where you want it.
- Lock the set screws on the T-No claw.
- Then unlock the set screws, JUST SLIGHTLY. They only need to be loose enough to allow the claw screws to be adjusted.
This prevents any additional claw movement (up, down, left, right) when it comes time to finally lock the set screws in place.
The entire setup of the guitar should be done with the "back half" (Receiver & Tailpiece) un-attached.
If installed properly, with no binding between parts, you should not be able to feel the Tremol-No when you use the trem.
At all.
If you are still feeling it, tiny adjustments of the claw screws need to be made (I'm talking 1/32nd of a turn).
If you are feeling a difference in your trem, it's possible that you have setup the trem *ever so slightly* different than it was originally when you installed the T-No claw.
- Deep C Issue
If your Deep-C is slipping, you have a couple of options.
1. Roughen up the face of the thumbscrew for the Deep-C. This will give it better grip on the Shaft. Any small file will do, even a metal emery board (check with the girlfriend; she's got a few).
2. Use the set screw instead (included). Once tight, I promise that sucker won't budge. Be careful not to scar the Shaft though.
- Dive Only Issue
To properly engage Dive Only mode (from Full Floating mode):
- Lock the 2 thumbscrews on the Receiver.
- Slide the Deep-C into place up against the front face of the Receiver.
- Lock the thumbscrew on the Deep-C.
- UNlock the 2 thumbscrews on the Receiver.
If you are doing it that way, then Dive Only mode should function properly (barring any problems with the trem function itself).
If you are not locking the thumbscrews on the Receiver first, you are probably pushing *ever so slightly* on the face of the Receiver as you set the Deep-C. This will push you slightly flat, and when the trem tries to come back to neutral, it will try to push on the Deep-C harder than necessary.
The thumbscrews are a safety. They are designed to slip! This prevents damage to your guitar (ripped out claw screws suck), the trem, and the Tremol-No.
- Complication
I can understand where you're coming with this, but it's only temporary. As folks learn that they now have options, they will learn how to use them properly. No one knew how to drive a car back in 1908; now we all do it while reading the paper, talking on the phone, putting on make-up, jacking....oops....sorry. Little tangent there.
I honestly don't believe that trem newbies need to "give up". They can, of course, but they will be limiting themselves and their guitar right from the get-go.
Also, we're not talking about a doctorate in Astrophysics. We're talking about a couple of hours to learn how a trem works and why it does what it does (and doesn't do what it doesn't do). Is that really too much to ask?
- Live & Studio
I've heard from many players about how they love to use the Tremol-No both live and in the studio.
Why?
In a live setting, they keep the same guitar but can do different things with it. Hardcore chickin'-pickin' for one song, then a VH cover the next, then a Satch cover after that.
Same guitar.
Same tone.
Same feel.
Takes 3 seconds to switch between modes.
I've also received tons of thanks from players that used to take 3-4 guitars to practice. Now they only have to haul around 1 or 2.
It's much the same in the studio. Sometimes you've got a tone that you love, but need a hardtail to pull off that lick in tune. In the past that meant switching to a Tele or LP.
Now, just put the T-No in Hardtail mode and hit "REC".
Done.
One place I didn't really think about was for teachers. One of my testers is a full-time guitar teacher. He put a Tremol-No on his 'in class' guitar and uses the set screws to keep it in Hardtail mode permanently. This way, his whammy-wanting students are stumped.
I'm happy to help out with any other tech questions you may have. The T-No site has a forum, but it's down right now but should be up soon (we just moved to a new server). Email still works great, and the phone is always on. I try to visit my favorite guitar forums regularly (like this one), but there are only so many hours in a day. I like this crowd though, so I'll try a little harder to make it here more frequently.
I'm glad you're happy with your Tremol-No, but I'm sure with a bit of tweaking we can get it 100%.
the24thfret
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2007
- Messages
- 2,458
Kevan,
Thanks a lot for the suggestions! I assume you're one of the original designers of the Tremol-no? I didn't expect to be in contact with someone from Tremol-no, I just posted a review for the benefit of other potential owners! I considered posting on the Tremol-no forum, but I call this forum home and it generates a lot of tremolo interest and questions.
And I'll reiterate, I really like the Tremol-no! The review simply highlighted the faults I found in using it. Of course it focused on the negatives. But like I said, overall it's great. I'm very happy I bought one.
I do want to respectfully respond back to some of your points --
I did watch the video, and tried to set it up in the same way, but found the masking tape method was more than inexact, and without a real tweaking I couldn't get the piece working just right.
At first I was unlocking the locking screws all the way, which really affected movement of the claw and made tuning a PITA. Then I learned to adjust them "just slightly", which made a big difference, but I can't say entirely removes the problem of claw movement.
My original post highlighted that friction can be minimized but the original feel of the trem never recovered simply because of the new claw/assembly/etc in the guitar. I don't really have any friction at all anymore, I have made the necessary adjustments to the trem claw screws and the guitar is setup as best it can be. Still, I think the feel of the trem has changed.
Thanks for the advice! I was very, very surprised when the Deep-C didn't work as advertised. Thank you for the advice, I'll try it out for sure. Is this information included in the installation instructions?
I am using the system properly and "dive only" works, but will not stay in tune by any means. I will try your suggestions above about the Deep-C screw.
I thoroughly agree. I should take my "newbies give up" advice back. I said it because I know from experience that tremolo adjustment/full-floating setup can be a total mindf*ck to "newbies", and therefore a system on TOP of that system, a Tremol-no, meant to expand upon and improve the versatility of a trem system, would be mindf*ck x2. At first, of course.
But this is not to say it's impossible. Of course not! I learned how to setup a full-floating trem guitar by trial and error years ago. If I did it (when I was 12) anyone can do it! And it doesn't bar use of the Tremol-no.
I just keep reading threads about people with $3000 guitars who don't know how to set them up fully and it makes me think something like the Tremol-no, which requires a lot of attention to detail in setup, would be initially impossible for these people. It's not really.
In the end, I'm really happy with the Tremol-no, and use it mostly for hard tail mode and quick detuning for certain songs. It works great, I reiterate, and I recommend it to people who know how their trem system works and want a lot more versatility.
Thanks again!
Thanks a lot for the suggestions! I assume you're one of the original designers of the Tremol-no? I didn't expect to be in contact with someone from Tremol-no, I just posted a review for the benefit of other potential owners! I considered posting on the Tremol-no forum, but I call this forum home and it generates a lot of tremolo interest and questions.
And I'll reiterate, I really like the Tremol-no! The review simply highlighted the faults I found in using it. Of course it focused on the negatives. But like I said, overall it's great. I'm very happy I bought one.
I do want to respectfully respond back to some of your points --
I did watch the video, and tried to set it up in the same way, but found the masking tape method was more than inexact, and without a real tweaking I couldn't get the piece working just right.
At first I was unlocking the locking screws all the way, which really affected movement of the claw and made tuning a PITA. Then I learned to adjust them "just slightly", which made a big difference, but I can't say entirely removes the problem of claw movement.
My original post highlighted that friction can be minimized but the original feel of the trem never recovered simply because of the new claw/assembly/etc in the guitar. I don't really have any friction at all anymore, I have made the necessary adjustments to the trem claw screws and the guitar is setup as best it can be. Still, I think the feel of the trem has changed.
Thanks for the advice! I was very, very surprised when the Deep-C didn't work as advertised. Thank you for the advice, I'll try it out for sure. Is this information included in the installation instructions?
I am using the system properly and "dive only" works, but will not stay in tune by any means. I will try your suggestions above about the Deep-C screw.
I thoroughly agree. I should take my "newbies give up" advice back. I said it because I know from experience that tremolo adjustment/full-floating setup can be a total mindf*ck to "newbies", and therefore a system on TOP of that system, a Tremol-no, meant to expand upon and improve the versatility of a trem system, would be mindf*ck x2. At first, of course.
But this is not to say it's impossible. Of course not! I learned how to setup a full-floating trem guitar by trial and error years ago. If I did it (when I was 12
) anyone can do it! And it doesn't bar use of the Tremol-no.I just keep reading threads about people with $3000 guitars who don't know how to set them up fully and it makes me think something like the Tremol-no, which requires a lot of attention to detail in setup, would be initially impossible for these people. It's not really.
In the end, I'm really happy with the Tremol-no, and use it mostly for hard tail mode and quick detuning for certain songs. It works great, I reiterate, and I recommend it to people who know how their trem system works and want a lot more versatility.
Thanks again!
Kevan
Well-known member
(Sterling/Moderators: if this is in the wrong section or not appropriate for your forum, please slap by butt and tell me to take it to PM, email, or elsewhere. Apologies in advance.)
Chris- I totally understand your points, and took your review to be a very positive one.
Like EB/MM, I intend to have the best customer service on the planet. The guys here are GOOD, so I have big hill to climb.
If I can help with even the smallest setup advice, I will. I want folks to have the same thing I have on my guitars. My JPM was the first non-Ib*nez guitar that the Tremol-No was tested on. I've had a unit on there for more than 4 years now.
I believe that with some of the setup stuff, it will vary depending on a players personal playing style, previous "feel", and other factors. Once tension is taken all the way off the tremolo, things can shift or re-align differently upon reassembly. Finding solutions to those (for every player and style) is next to impossible. You'd have better luck asking me to boot Lezley Zen out of the hot tub.
Whole-heartedly, I agree with you that newbies will struggle at first while uber-techs will be able to install and tweak it before the episode of "Sanford & Son" is over. Guys like Gary Brawer, Jim Donahue, Tom Anderson, and Dudley Gimpel (heh heh) will be able to whip through it like Oprah though a buffet line. Newbies are called newbies for a reason. Once they've learned the basics, only then can they ditch that status. I was a newbie once. It sucked. LOL
If someone bought a $3000 guitar and doesn't know how to do simple maintenance on it, they deserve all the pain and frustration that's ahead of them.
Or, they've got enough money to pay a tech to do that stuff for them.
I have re-done the instruction card for the Tremol-No. It now includes less-detailed descriptions and more pictures. After all these years online, I've figured out that no one reads more than the first line of any given page, but they will inspect each picture with Grissom-like OCD.
When AllParts runs out of the current insert cards, the new ones will be printed up and sent out with the units. I *hope* that helps with installations.
In regards to yours:
- Some players have put a small amount of gel lubricant on the bottom side (ONLY!) of the Shaft or inside the Receiver. This helps the Shaft slide unhindered along the Receiver.
- You should watch the Clean & Lube video too. Trem maintenance is CRUCIAL to proper trem performance. Don't take care of your car, and it stops running. Don't take care of your guitar, and it stops tuning.
I'm glad that you're diggin' yours. With any good fortune, and a little tweaking, we can get it where you're very, VERY happy with it.
BTW- I am the the inventor.
Chris- I totally understand your points, and took your review to be a very positive one.
Like EB/MM, I intend to have the best customer service on the planet. The guys here are GOOD, so I have big hill to climb.
If I can help with even the smallest setup advice, I will. I want folks to have the same thing I have on my guitars. My JPM was the first non-Ib*nez guitar that the Tremol-No was tested on. I've had a unit on there for more than 4 years now.
I believe that with some of the setup stuff, it will vary depending on a players personal playing style, previous "feel", and other factors. Once tension is taken all the way off the tremolo, things can shift or re-align differently upon reassembly. Finding solutions to those (for every player and style) is next to impossible. You'd have better luck asking me to boot Lezley Zen out of the hot tub.
Whole-heartedly, I agree with you that newbies will struggle at first while uber-techs will be able to install and tweak it before the episode of "Sanford & Son" is over. Guys like Gary Brawer, Jim Donahue, Tom Anderson, and Dudley Gimpel (heh heh) will be able to whip through it like Oprah though a buffet line. Newbies are called newbies for a reason. Once they've learned the basics, only then can they ditch that status. I was a newbie once. It sucked. LOL
If someone bought a $3000 guitar and doesn't know how to do simple maintenance on it, they deserve all the pain and frustration that's ahead of them.
Or, they've got enough money to pay a tech to do that stuff for them.
I have re-done the instruction card for the Tremol-No. It now includes less-detailed descriptions and more pictures. After all these years online, I've figured out that no one reads more than the first line of any given page, but they will inspect each picture with Grissom-like OCD.
When AllParts runs out of the current insert cards, the new ones will be printed up and sent out with the units. I *hope* that helps with installations.
In regards to yours:
- Some players have put a small amount of gel lubricant on the bottom side (ONLY!) of the Shaft or inside the Receiver. This helps the Shaft slide unhindered along the Receiver.
- You should watch the Clean & Lube video too. Trem maintenance is CRUCIAL to proper trem performance. Don't take care of your car, and it stops running. Don't take care of your guitar, and it stops tuning.
I'm glad that you're diggin' yours. With any good fortune, and a little tweaking, we can get it where you're very, VERY happy with it.
BTW- I am the the inventor.
the24thfret
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2007
- Messages
- 2,458
Kevan,
It's great to get such feedback from the inventor himself. I've had the Tremol-no on the guitar for a while now, and even with string changes, have not made an adjustment to it in something like two months. It's very solid.
Thanks for all your input. I'll watch that Cleaning video, as I haven't yet. Also, thanks for the change in instructions; I'm sure they will be much more helpful than the original set. Pictures are a major plus.
Thanks again for making a great product but moreso for taking the time to respond here! I appreciate your offer to help me out if I need it.
-Chris
It's great to get such feedback from the inventor himself. I've had the Tremol-no on the guitar for a while now, and even with string changes, have not made an adjustment to it in something like two months. It's very solid.
Thanks for all your input. I'll watch that Cleaning video, as I haven't yet. Also, thanks for the change in instructions; I'm sure they will be much more helpful than the original set. Pictures are a major plus.
Thanks again for making a great product but moreso for taking the time to respond here! I appreciate your offer to help me out if I need it.
-Chris
Kevan
Well-known member
You're welcome, Chris.
I'm glad to hear you're having a good time with your Tremol-No.
Just so everyone knows: the forum on the Tremol-No site is back up and running on our new server.
I check that forum 100x more than I check here.
I'm glad to hear you're having a good time with your Tremol-No.
Just so everyone knows: the forum on the Tremol-No site is back up and running on our new server.
I check that forum 100x more than I check here.
dannymusic
Well-known member
alternate tunings are why you buy MORE balls
the24thfret
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2007
- Messages
- 2,458
Update!
I ended up snapping the "pin" on my Tremol-no the other day while setting up the guitar with new strings... First major problem I've had with the unit.
Luckily, thanks to this thread, I sent Kevan an email and told him what happened, and within 5 days I had the new part that I needed delivered to my door! So I'm back in the Tremol-no business.
I want to thank Kevan publicly for standing behind his product so well and delivering excellent customer service. I add to this thread because I think if anyone finds this thread via search it's important for this bit of info to be included.
Thanks again, Kevan!
I ended up snapping the "pin" on my Tremol-no the other day while setting up the guitar with new strings... First major problem I've had with the unit.
Luckily, thanks to this thread, I sent Kevan an email and told him what happened, and within 5 days I had the new part that I needed delivered to my door! So I'm back in the Tremol-no business.
I want to thank Kevan publicly for standing behind his product so well and delivering excellent customer service. I add to this thread because I think if anyone finds this thread via search it's important for this bit of info to be included.
Thanks again, Kevan!
