Buying guitars from US

[SteveB]

James & Dakine,

Thanks for raising many fine points, it is always interesting (for me, anyway) to learn a little more about the goings on in other parts of the world.

James you are right, and I certainly can't blame anyone for looking for the best deals available. We all do that! I just wonder what effect it might have if some fine UK-based gent like DaveB, who has purchased several EBMM guitars in the space of the last several months, stated that fact to his local EBMM retailer.

Would that retailer think twice about stocking some EBMM guitars (and pricing them fairly), knowing that DaveB spent a lot of £££ that might have been potential sales for his own shop? Maybe, maybe not. But from the small sampling of this forum, there sure seems to be a decent amount of interest for EBMM in the UK.

I agree, James, that is it quite expensive to be a guitarist these days! You can buy a DVD player for US$49.00 but a Cry Baby still goes for US$69.00?

 

[pauldogx]

Lenny---I cant speak for BP but that is certainly the case here----you can't expect to have good and productive workers when they have to travel 2 hrs each way to work, which in itself becomes a fairly good chunk of change---further reducing your take home pay. This doesn't even address the always rising real estate tax that comes with an escalating real estate market.

 

[Jay]

i am not sure i understand?....are u saying you need workers at the factory BUT they cant afford to live near enough?


what are your standards considering quality of life? or of the instrument

Being a very fortunate and lucky resident of SLO myself, I can certainly attest to what BP is saying. A lot of people that work here don't live here, not because they don't want to, but because they can't afford to. And the disparity between the have's and have not's grows each month. The housing lack-of-affordability has already spread to nearby communities.

If you didn't know already, however, EB received a lot of positive press locally in the papers when they adjusted their minimum hourly wage to (I want say it was called) a living wage. And from what I remember, this was done voluntarily and not under threat of employee walkouts or strikes or whatnot. Impressive.....

Jay

 

[DaveB]

James & Dakine,

I just wonder what effect it might have if some fine UK-based gent like DaveB, who has purchased several EBMM guitars in the space of the last several months, stated that fact to his local EBMM retailer.

First of all excellent thread - very interesting reading.

I have bought second hand from the US and new from UK sources. I have spoken to many retailers over here - basically they have all told me that they cant price the guitars anywhere near competitively. To a man they all rave about the quality....

To pick up on some of BPs points :-

It surprised me that Strings & Things have a warehouse full of guitars - from my understanding most of us UK guys have custom ordered what we want - which surely means a request to build goes to SLO. Do they have quotas they need to fulfill which means they are buying stock without the customers waiting for those guitars? Given the seeming "unwillingness" of UK stores stocking them how will this stock get moved on?

BP mentioned in another thread that EB were the worlds no. 1 string manufacturer - surely the dealers could not afford to boycott EB whether or not the guitars were being sold direct. As it stands there are so few dealers over here stocking anything guitarwise that would it actually make a difference. Surely people will still go into those EBMM dealer stores and ask for a pack of Slinkys?

From Strings & Things point of view what would be in their interest would be publishing the list of "stock" guitars. If I knew there was a combination that was say 90% of what I was after and available in 2 days through my local dealer (or direct )then I'm sure that would be attractive alternative to a long wait.

The guitar sector is really a microcosm of many current markets - the internet has really opened up the global economy. It will be interesting to see how firms react to these challenges - the local guitar shop is probably not going to fare that well when anyone with a PC and a credit card can buy so much cheaper elsewhere.

On the other hand an annual trip to California to buy EBMMs isnt a bad alternative (next time BP might even let me buy him a beer!)

Dave

 

[heavymetaljames]

Dave - I like your way best - get to go to the US and get an EB - you are a lucky man! I wonder - the US - a family holiday - what theme parks are near the EB factory or near a good EB dealer!
I feel a new thread coming on!

 

[Big Poppa]

First of all excellent thread - very interesting reading.

I have bought second hand from the US and new from UK sources. I have spoken to many retailers over here - basically they have all told me that they cant price the guitars anywhere near competitively. To a man they all rave about the quality....

To pick up on some of BPs points :-

It surprised me that Strings & Things have a warehouse full of guitars - from my understanding most of us UK guys have custom ordered what we want - which surely means a request to build goes to SLO. Do they have quotas they need to fulfill which means they are buying stock without the customers waiting for those guitars? Given the seeming "unwillingness" of UK stores stocking them how will this stock get moved on?

BP mentioned in another thread that EB were the worlds no. 1 string manufacturer - surely the dealers could not afford to boycott EB whether or not the guitars were being sold direct. As it stands there are so few dealers over here stocking anything guitarwise that would it actually make a difference. Surely people will still go into those EBMM dealer stores and ask for a pack of Slinkys?

From Strings & Things point of view what would be in their interest would be publishing the list of "stock" guitars. If I knew there was a combination that was say 90% of what I was after and available in 2 days through my local dealer (or direct )then I'm sure that would be attractive alternative to a long wait.

The guitar sector is really a microcosm of many current markets - the internet has really opened up the global economy. It will be interesting to see how firms react to these challenges - the local guitar shop is probably not going to fare that well when anyone with a PC and a credit card can buy so much cheaper elsewhere.

On the other hand an annual trip to California to buy EBMMs isnt a bad alternative (next time BP might even let me buy him a beer!)

Dave

Dave

I will speak for Strings and Things here. With now 70,000 to 80,000 possibilities it is nuts for them. There are quite a few dealers that stock but they are the minority. When the dealer calls with a special order and strings and things tells them the closest thing they custom order. Everybody also needs to understand that Strings andThings is one of our bigger export customers and buy more basses and guitars than other signifigant markets. I know that they have considered joining the forum and do read it but the attacks on them keep them away.

No customer of ours has a quota.

Dealers will ban the number one electric guitar string. They will cut their noses off to spite thier faces trust me.

THe Dud had a long talk with them at Anaheim NAMM and got a real good insight from them

 

[Sigmunds Couch]

Dave

Everybody also needs to understand that Strings andThings is one of our bigger export customers and buy more basses and guitars than other signifigant markets. I know that they have considered joining the forum and do read it but the attacks on them keep them away.

Just a thought.

Is there anyway CodeMonkey can come up with a similar feature in the Dealer Locator function of the website that allows our EU and PACRIM junkies to see what the larger export companies have stewing in their warehouses?

Granted, you'll have to "encourage them" to keep their inventory lists updated with you, but if I was looking for a Desert Gold Sil with Python PG and S&T has as DGS with a white PG in their stable, I would buy stock and get an aftermarket PG.

Just my $0.02

 

[lenny]

Lenny---I cant speak for BP but that is certainly the case here----you can't expect to have good and productive workers when they have to travel 2 hrs each way to work, which in itself becomes a fairly good chunk of change---further reducing your take home pay. This doesn't even address the always rising real estate tax that comes with an escalating real estate market.

yes i can see the problem........i live in a town of 10,000 AND in nova scotia pretty small town stuff ,i have never heard of that type of problem before where people cant afford to go to work but if its a 2 hour hike each way and with the price of fuel these days then thats different all together.............. my brother in law lives in hamilton ontario and drives to mississauga ontario every day to and from and he says its about an hour or so one way and that seems to be the case in the bigger cities more traffic means more time on the road but yah 2 hours is a long drive

 

[DaveB]

Dave

I will speak for Strings and Things here. With now 70,000 to 80,000 possibilities it is nuts for them. There are quite a few dealers that stock but they are the minority. When the dealer calls with a special order and strings and things tells them the closest thing they custom order. Everybody also needs to understand that Strings andThings is one of our bigger export customers and buy more basses and guitars than other signifigant markets. I know that they have considered joining the forum and do read it but the attacks on them keep them away.

No customer of ours has a quota.

Dealers will ban the number one electric guitar string. They will cut their noses off to spite thier faces trust me.

THe Dud had a long talk with them at Anaheim NAMM and got a real good insight from them

Thats Sod's Law isnt it! With so many options you are never going to pick the right one! If everything is custom order why are S&T ordering so many stock guitars? Not a criticism - just an observation. More importantly they need to get those guitars "visible" to the UK public so they can sell them dontcha think?

The fact UK dealers would dump a (the) top string brand to spite a frankly low volume (compared to F*nder and G*bson) guitar is surely a sad reflection on them. But I can see you at EBMM are caught between a rock and a hard place.

I have bought through S&T and eBay and second hand from the US - I dont have any personal gripe about the UK distributors at all - even though in retrospect some of my previous posts may have sounded like it - but I guess people in the UK look at US prices and service and wonder why they should pay so much more. You are never going to change that unless UK prices drop. Its a real shame S&T dont contribute here. I would be very interested on their take on all this. Surely getting close to your target market and their feedback is valuable even if initially negative?

I guess the most interesting fact that has arisen in this thread is the volume of ordered guitars against current production capacity - obviously you guys are doing a lot right because of the order book (and dazzling customer satisfaction) but without upping production (at the expense of quality?) increasing market share is not really on the cards.

BP - have you ever thought of rationalising the range ..... and I was serious about that beer


Dave

 

[Dakine]

Umm,
if reading all this right. You do (well I do) wonder why they S&T guitars are in a wharehouse and not in a store. Of course people being people they will want summit that is'nt there BUT, it WOULD surely get EB guitars into the public eye to woo more potential clients (apart from those of us Addicted and prone to COMPULSIVE purchase syndrome . Also, I understand 101% EB can only build/do so much so more orders (which may be forthcoming from such a move) could be tricky. Darn hard to please people, could be position of TOO long of a wait for some then (new owners of course who don't understand a EB is WORTH waiting for).
Tricky tricky.

 

[lenny]

Are strings and things in the UK? or is this a U.S based operation Just asking because i dont know and ive never hears of them before

 

[Beth]

Hi Everyone,

Thank you so much for all of your contributions to this thread. This subject in particular is something that eats away at my very being every day in my career with EB and its great to have insight and support from you. The internet has changed the world, and retail/distribution/world trade is metamorphising in so many interesting ways.

That said, a New World Order for our little industry is at hand -- when it will begin, how long it will take and how messy it will be is still up in the air. We are always open to your thoughts and ideas from a consumer's point of view and I thank BP every day for this valuable tool that we call our forum.

Somehow, I feel that this NWO thats coming on will be pioneered and innovative in such a way that everyone wins in the end -- the distributors (who have been our loyal partners for longer than I've been alive), the retailers, the consumers and EB/MM. This is the way that BP has always run his business and will continue to run his business. We're making history here, everyone! Thank you for your support!

-Beth

 

[Big Poppa]

dave and Dakine

Ever heard of inventory? Do you guys know how many fenders and gibsons are in warehouses?
Now you guys dont think that S&T have sales people that ask for orders every single day? Do you guys realize that they sell a ton of guitars and basses? Do you think that I would do business for over thirty years with a company that wasn't really good? In S&T's defense how would you like to continually bet broadsided and accused of not doing thier job?

Dave if you wonder why they don't post re read soome of your naive posts regarding distribution.... Dave, don't take this wrong its just really hard to explain it to you without bringing this up. We are pals.

Please before I lose interest or patience give Strings & Things a break and a rest it has already drived Beth away I know for sure. You guys are great supporters but reread my posts.... I keep trying to explain and with each explanation I think that you get 1% more insight and 99% more confusion.

 

[kbaim]

...I keep trying to explain and with each explanation I think that you get 1% more insight and 99% more confusion.

These are most disturbing figures.

 

[SteveB]

dave and Dakine

Ever heard of inventory? Do you guys know how many fenders and gibsons are in warehouses?
Now you guys dont think that S&T have sales people that ask for orders every single day? Do you guys realize that they sell a ton of guitars and basses? Do you think that I would do business for over thirty years with a company that wasn't really good? In S&T's defense how would you like to continually bet broadsided and accused of not doing thier job?

Dave if you wonder why they don't post re read soome of your naive posts regarding distribution.... Dave, don't take this wrong its just really hard to explain it to you without bringing this up. We are pals.

Please before I lose interest or patience give Strings & Things a break and a rest it has already drived Beth away I know for sure. You guys are great supporters but reread my posts.... I keep trying to explain and with each explanation I think that you get 1% more insight and 99% more confusion.

Can I answer some of those questions, even though they weren't posed to me?

I have heard of inventory. I personally have no idea how many F's and G's are in warehouses. Being a consumer in the guitar business process, I don't know how often a distributor like S&T would order.. daily doesn't seem outrageous to me in the era of just-in-time inventory and so forth.

I've always been amazed at the commitment that overseas distributors make. For that market, they effectively ARE Music Man.. I can't imagine that they send everything that needs tweaked back to SLO. This demands a distributor who really believes in the product, and I'm sure that you would not do business with anyone who wasn't really good.

Lastly, I think drove Beth away... not posts about international distributors.

OKay.. how many did I get right?

 

[Bungo]

Everybody also needs to understand that Strings andThings is one of our bigger export customers and buy more basses and guitars than other signifigant markets. I know that they have considered joining the forum and do read it but the attacks on them keep them away.

If that is the case then I personally am very sorry.

I'm sure that we (the consumers) are not aware of all the problems and pitfalls along the distribution chain, but understandably feel frustrated at our end of it.

I would be delighted if Strings and Things got involved here so that we (the customers) can work with them to help achieve the best outcome for everybody concerned.

I like DaveB's idea - Perhaps a dialogue on here with Strings and Things so they could let us know what they have in stock, and if it is a close enough match to what we're after, we can order through a dealer and get hold of it really fast?

I'm sure we all actually want to achieve the same objective - guitars (and strings!) in shops being bought by us!

 

[Hutton]

I'm posting this in fear and trepidation as I am a player of the four-stringed instrument. However, as I am a UK resident I thought I might be allowed one or two observations.

I really appreciate my local guitar stores. I can go in and try out basses and chat to the salespeople. It's a nice way to spend an afternoon. I would hate to lose my dealer. Admittedly there is not always a great choice of EBMM stock. So I do sympathise with you guitar guys. I have to say though that I did buy a Silhouette off the peg in Glasgow. Okay, it maybe wasn't exactly the colour I wanted but what the heck it was an EB guitar.

I have also found Strings and Things most helpful. I have phoned them to enquire as to availability of basses and spare parts. Once I have established that what I want is in stock I then order through the dealer.

As I say, I live in the UK. The policies of this country regarding tax and duty are what we should be questioning. That is what is making the price of guitars so much higher than the US. I have spoken to my member of parliament about this matter although I don't kid myself that he will be able to change anything. However, every journey begins with the first step.

Sorry for rambling on but we don't live in an ideal world. We love EB guitars and basses. We just have to make the most of the situation as to how we attain them. It may mean waiting a bit longer. It may mean paying a bit more. But when you plug it in to your amp - OOOOOOOH YEAH!

 

[tkharris]

Ok I have been following this and reading with interest. I am an EBMM JPM junkie. What you do not belive me?; look at this photo:

http://timharris.us/imgs/familypic1.jpg

I currently live in Germany but am from the states and I see on an everyday basis how expensive EBMM's are here in Germany. The big music store here in Frankfurt does have about 8 of them in stock but about 3 times the cost of what I paid for one of mine. I understand the whole import thing I personally feel that peoples greed make them so expensive to buy here. I hate seeing Ibanez sell theirs for prices comparitable to that of the states when EBMM's are such a better guitar and allot better club to be in

I do love the fact that I have to wait 3-4 months to get my guitar. I would rather have that and have the quality that goes into EBMM guitars. I bought my first one blind and as you can see I do not regret it. I get my next one sometime this month. Black with Gold Hardware JPM it is like Christmas at easter

Beth thank you for all your insight. BP I love that you post here on the forum another reason why I buy your guitars. I do think that I should have been able to see you guys at the Frankfurt Music Fair, you distributor here in Germany would not allow the "Little" people in to get a closer look at your guitars. To me that is not what it is all about. The "little" people are what allow the "Big" people to keep their jobs.

 

[DaveB]

dave and Dakine

Ever heard of inventory? Do you guys know how many fenders and gibsons are in warehouses?
Now you guys dont think that S&T have sales people that ask for orders every single day? Do you guys realize that they sell a ton of guitars and basses? Do you think that I would do business for over thirty years with a company that wasn't really good? In S&T's defense how would you like to continually bet broadsided and accused of not doing thier job?

Dave if you wonder why they don't post re read soome of your naive posts regarding distribution.... Dave, don't take this wrong its just really hard to explain it to you without bringing this up. We are pals.

Please before I lose interest or patience give Strings & Things a break and a rest it has already drived Beth away I know for sure. You guys are great supporters but reread my posts.... I keep trying to explain and with each explanation I think that you get 1% more insight and 99% more confusion.

Consider my arse well and truly kicked and my mouth closed.

Seems a lot of people on here think a list of UK inventory is a good idea though....

Dave

 

[kbaim]

.... I keep trying to explain and with each explanation I think that you get 1% more insight and 99% more confusion.

I forgot to ask...Is this trending upward?