Composite Necks Question

[koogie2k]

Just curious, I have seen a composite neck on some basses before but have not been able to try one out. What are the advantages of having one? How about feel and is there any tone loss/increase with having one? Granted, I play guitar most of the time, but have really been getting into the bass (love my bongo) and was curious.....I'm looking at getting another bass soon and just want to keep the options open. Thanks for any information or suggestions.

 

[Dr. Nick]

Just curious, I have seen a composite neck on some basses before but have not been able to try one out. What are the advantages of having one? How about feel and is there any tone loss/increase with having one? Granted, I play guitar most of the time, but have really been getting into the bass (love my bongo) and was curious.....I'm looking at getting another bass soon and just want to keep the options open. Thanks for any information or suggestions.

I'm no expert, but I think the main advantage to composite and graphite is they do not move or warp with changes in heat and humidity, hence, no need for a truss rod...I think....

 

[shaver]

its alot like playing ebony so i've heard. i think that some graphite necks still do have trusrods for adjustment, but it doesnt warp... another alternative is to get a neck with carbonfiber rods in it. this is the same fell as wood but with alot of the strength that carbon has to offer

 

[Joshua]

I've owned both a Modulus Quantum 4spi and a Zon Sonus Custom fretless, and thought both were outstanding instruments. The Zon was my main axe for years.

Composite necks are super rigid, so setups can be few and far between. Also, they can be set up to far more precise specs (or at least they hold setups better at far more precise specs).

Tone? Hard to say. Tone is a result of the complete recipe right down to the player. The Modulus was (in gen'l) pretty modern sounding, but the Zon was much more "organic". Both were insanely versatile too.

While my tastes have taken me elsewhere, I will most probably buy another axe from Joe Zon at some point in the future...

 

[Golem]

Just curious, I have seen a composite neck on some basses before but have not been able to try one out. What are the advantages of having one? How about feel and is there any tone loss/increase with having one? Granted, I play guitar most of the time, but have really been getting into the bass (love my bongo) and was curious.....I'm looking at getting another bass soon and just want to keep the options open. Thanks for any information or suggestions.

I play both wood and composite necks. Some of the wood necks are simple maple, some have darker woods laminated into them, and a few are not maple at all. The composite necks are Moses, Modulus, and Steinberger and they are as different from each other as the various wood necks are from each other.

"Wood" is a nonspecific term, and no one would argue otherwise. But "composite" seems often to be used as a specific term, and that's rather misleading. "Wood" is a composite, and we recognize various woods with differing qualities. The synthetic composites have various recipes and varying fibre structures within them, just like the natural composites [the wood], and so they also vary from type to type.

While synthetic composites vary from one to another, they vary not at all within each type. While you can shop the differences within supposedly identical wooden necks, meaning not all 1998 Turner 4-string necks will sound alike [on same-model bodies], this is not true of composites. All 1998 Moses 4-string jazz necks will sound identical. And if the recipe and construction lay up for the 1998 Moses is the unchanged from 1992 to 2007, then all those 15 years of Moses 4-string jazz necks will sound alike, meaning you don't have to shop for the sweet one. The misunderstanding amongst buyers is to extrapolate that alikeness beyond the make and model. A Steinberger is as different from a Modulus as an ash neck is from a maple or mahogany neck.

Synthetics are immune to seasonal changes. My Moses and Steinberger necks have synthetic fingerboards, and never need adjustment. The Modulus neck has a wooden fingerboard, and needs very minor adjustments, if you want to be really fussy about your action. The 'Berger has no truss rod anyway. The others do have them.

If you like wood but want the benefits of composite, meaning you want to hardly realize you're playing a non-wooden neck [to both hands and ears], I'd suggest going with Moses. But I only know the 3 brands I'm playing. There are others. Also, if you're thinking maybe you'll own one fretless, and likewise maybe you'll own one synthetic composite neck, I'd suggest making them one and the same. With a fretted neck, minor changes in neck relief have no effect on sound, just on playability. With a low action fretless, even the most minor changes in neck relief can be heard, so the stability of synthetic composites is very beneficial. If your FL neck has a DiamondWood or RockWood fingerboard, you've already got an epoxy fingerboard with no further modification.

On balance, some wooden necks with graphite inserts are about as stable as my Modulus neck, needing only the most minor seasonal adjustment, if any. And some of the "graphite neck" bass builders have gone heavily into a sort of wood-graphite laminate neck, with far more graphite in them than necks with just a couple of graphite inserts.

 

[shaver]

i dont think wood is synthetic because it is natural accuring. Synthetic products are made artificialy. though Carbon is also natural, the finger board is made up of stronger and differnt things.

 

[koogie2k]

Thanks for the replies......and the lesson you gave Golem.....decisions are being made right now for me and I just want to keep my options open......

 

[shaver]

wow that was weird of me, i thought you said wood was synthetic not composit haha, i'm an idiot.. everything you sayd was right... my bad.

 

[Golem]

wow that was weird of me, i thought you said wood was synthetic not composit haha, i'm an idiot.. everything you sayd was right... my bad.

Well, wood is sort of a 'Photosynthetic Composite'. I mean the leaves do the photosynthesis to the raw materials the roots dredge up, and you get wood, which is a fiber reinforced resin material, i.e. a "composite". Yet it is obviously natural. So what does 'synthetic' really mean anyway? Maybe in the topic at hand we should really specify when we mean a "manufactured synthetic composite".

Seems there is nothing new under the sun. What we loosely call "graphite composite" is essentially artificial wood. Both materials are fiber reinforced resin. Artificial wood has a negligible moisture content, and is therefore more stable in changeable climates. And it's more consistently made, with negligible variation from batch to batch. But making artificial wood does not process CO2 into O2 for us to breath. Some days you eat the bear, some days the bear eats you.

 

[koogie2k]

Jeez Golem...you work for the Discovery Channel....man, that is some deep information on trees....hehehehhe....no complaints here, just amazed at how deep you went with this....eheheheh

 

[bass thumper]

Well, wood is sort of a 'Photosynthetic Composite'. I mean the leaves do the photosynthesis to the raw materials the roots dredge up, and you get wood, which is a fiber reinforced resin material, i.e. a "composite". Yet it is obviously natural. So what does 'synthetic' really mean anyway? Maybe in the topic at hand we should really specify when we mean a "manufactured synthetic composite".

Seems there is nothing new under the sun. What we loosely call "graphite composite" is essentially artificial wood. Both materials are fiber reinforced resin. Artificial wood has a negligible moisture content, and is therefore more stable in changeable climates. And it's more consistently made, with negligible variation from batch to batch. But making artificial wood does not process CO2 into O2 for us to breath. Some days you eat the bear, some days the bear eats you.

After you said "Well," I was lost.

 

[smallequestrian]

If you are curious about getting another bass, i would make sure you get a chance to play some composite necked basses before pulling the trigger. Some might call them an acquired taste.

 

[Mobay45]

Paul, you are so PC!

Just say it like it is! Some people think they just suck (on limes)!

 

[Bera]

I have a Fender Precision with a graphite-reinforced neck. I don't know EXACTLY how it is built, but it sure doesn't need much adjustments... Just some tweaking now and then.

 

[Golem]

After you said "Well," I was lost.

Essence of it all is that "composite" necks are fibre reinforced epoxy resin. That is to say, fibre, like kevlar, graphite fibre, spun glass fibre, etc is layed out in a manner that will give great strength in a certain direction [like the grain in wood]. Then this fibre reinforcement stuff goes in the mold which gets filled with epoxy resin. The mold shapes the neck.

Natural resins [the same stuff that dries into those amber-like droplets] in wood binds the cellulose [wood] fibres, so that wood is a strong material instead of a fuzzy bundle of of natural fibre like raw cotton.

So, composite necks are not a new innovative idea in terms of their structure. Their structure is copied from nature. The innovation in composite necks is the exact materials employed, and the ability to lay out the "grain" of the material [analogous to wood grain] in a very consistent manner [avoids natural variations of wood grain].

One of the very earliest plastics was celluloid, which I think is actually derived from cellulose, which is the natural fibre of wood. If that's true, wood has been the model for "synthetics" from the very earliest stages. Not surprising, cuz wood is remarkable stuff.

 

[Golem]

I have a Fender Precision with a graphite-reinforced neck. I don't know EXACTLY how it is built, but it sure doesn't need much adjustments... Just some tweaking now and then.

That's partly due to the reinforcing, but partly due to it being a Precision instead of a Jazz. P-Bass necks are much more stout than other skinnier more 'fashionable' necks, and just resist the forces that move other necks. Look at the fat neck on an URB. No truss rods there...