Custom Shop..????

[oddjob]

Only $$$ in the bank when you: a) don't have to interupt your regular production by retooling , cleaning sprayers, hand setting machinces above and beyond what you already do. B)You don't have to startup a new production line.

I understand what you are saying, and it would be awesome (I am already thinking of my dream Bongo). BP and the gang have been know to crank out a pure custom job from time to time for a big name artist that more than offsets the $$$ with all of the "free advertising." BUt for the general public it doesn't make sense. THey offer tons of choices, and from a $$$ standpoint we have to work within those rules until BP says "Yeah, I think we can do that." I also understand the willingness to pay for the said options, but then again, look at what it does to the current line - wait times are already 3-6 months that would probably push the regular line past a year. So while it seems like $$$$$$$ in the bank, the way it is currently set up it is far from a sure bet

 

[fogman]

over 100k of choices

there could be half as many and I'd still be confused!

 

[Old_Guy]

I'm not very bright..but...couldn't you just go to one of those "assemblers," (W__mouth) and spec a bass out the way you wanted? Wouldn't the only thing you couldn't get through them be the signature headstock? Even if you had it assembled in SLO, if you're writing all the specs yourself, it's not really an EBMM anymore, it's a "Bob" or a "Sally." I trust Mr. BP to combine the right ingredients in the right proptions, I don't trust myself to design a balanced instrument. Too many variables and interactions.


Though truthfully I made a guitar out of a cigar box and it sounded pretty darn good.

 

[Big Poppa]

first off I dont know that the brands that pedulla mentions is truly in our price point. I also dont thik that you options are unlimited......I have gone over this a zillion times just showing what happens if we add just one pick guard is is over 100 more choices at least.

THe sad fact is that most boutique guys go broke. There is a magic level of critical sales volume and economy of scale you have to have to succeed. How can you go broke if you charge more than me? Trulst me the woods are littered with guys trying to just make a living. Form the consumers point of view they just sold me a 4,000 bass! They must be rolling in the dough.

Just this year I am staring in t the faace of about 2 million dollars worth of factory improvements that really dont do anything but make sure that I can compete for a few more years.

It is not possible to make an instrument that retails for 2-2500 dollars and make the optionns unlimited THink it through without me divulging confidential dealer prices...what do you think I sell a guitar that retails for $1800?

 

[pedullamvp5]

OK...... I've read the posts from this issue that state that it would be to costly and time consuming. I was just asking for an "Ebony" fretboard option and "Black/Gold" hardware. Theres "NO" way offering these options, that EBMM is going to risk going out of business, or have to install a new production line! They install rosewood fretboards everyday, adding ebony won't change a thing in the process, and gold/black hardware is no more difficult to install than chrome. And it doesn't matter if EBMM offers 100k options for their basses, if its not the options that the consumer needs or wants than maybe the R&D department needs to pay more attention to what their customers are asking for! I realize asking for custom paint jobs or adding special wood tops would be time consuming and costly. But theres no way to make me believe that offering different hardware color or ebony fretboard is to much to ask for......

 

[Caca de Kick]

Simply put...it's just not needed. Not that many people really care for such a minute option, and the company has been successful for decades running it the way it has been.

Myself...I could care less for an ebony fretboard, and I prefer chrome hardware.

This year the LE is going to have gold hardware, so you can get your gold fix there if you really want it. And a few years ago there was a black onyx model, maybe look for one of those.

You know, you won't get anywhere demanding things like this from Rickenbacker either. And they also have no problem with people waiting a year for their bass to be built, and they offer even less options.

 

[mynan]

Hey man, no means "no"...

You have no idea what you are talking about. Three words..."Production Bass Manufacturer". This is not 5-10 guys cranking out a few basses per week in a small shop in the corner of a little industrial park. Every added option is a major event...planning, inventory control, quality control, etc...it's a big, big deal, possibly adding months to wait times...and for what...1 or 2 % of your customer base?

 

[Ken Baker]

They install rosewood fretboards everyday, adding ebony won't change a thing in the process,...

Actually, it does. It isn't just about buying a slab of ebony (of whatever species) and gluing it to a neck. Someone has to source the wood. Someone has to make sure that the tooling can handle it, and make any necessary adjustments. Handwork will be a little different than for the other woods. Plus, errors and bad pieces of wood have to be allowed for. It is also VERY important to note that high quality ebony that will stand up to a CNC fret slot saw, let alone a hand saw, is getting hard to find.

...and gold/black hardware is no more difficult to install than chrome.

True. But it has to be sourced (there are no doubt minimum orders involved here) and it has to be tested. The plating has to be applied only in places where it's OK to be applied, and it cannot flake off the base metal. I know of a bass manufacturer that had to eliminate gold colored hardware as an option because the gold plating was applied to mini toggle switch contacts and wasn't properly conductive. It cost them enough warranty fixes that they discontinued the option. That's testing that probably wasn't done, and it came back to bite them. And while it seems like a simple task to slap an ohm meter on there and see if it works, the reality in a manufacturing environment can be a lot more stringent.

Ken...

 

[strummer]

OK...... I've read the posts from this issue that state that it would be to costly and time consuming. I was just asking for an "Ebony" fretboard option and "Black/Gold" hardware. Theres "NO" way offering these options, that EBMM is going to risk going out of business, or have to install a new production line! They install rosewood fretboards everyday, adding ebony won't change a thing in the process, and gold/black hardware is no more difficult to install than chrome. And it doesn't matter if EBMM offers 100k options for their basses, if its not the options that the consumer needs or wants than maybe the R&D department needs to pay more attention to what their customers are asking for! I realize asking for custom paint jobs or adding special wood tops would be time consuming and costly. But theres no way to make me believe that offering different hardware color or ebony fretboard is to much to ask for......

Lol, you obviously really know what you are talking about, don't you? In real life, making an ebony fretboard is not the same as making a rose wood one. First you need to stock more wood, then you need to tool for the ebony (and no, it won't be the same as rosewood) and then you need to deal with the fact that you added a godawful heap of options to the already insane options you have.

The brands you name, well three are far out of this price range if you want 10% of the options available on the ebmm, and the fourth well as long as warmoth makes it you can get it pieced together. No shadow shall fall on Nino, but calling him a bass manufacturer is rich to say the least. Now, you can go with your user name, but then you'd also have to dish out a lot of money to get it the way you want it.
Look at it this way: With ebmm you get stuff actually built in the same factory where they make all the stuff (except for tuning keys and metal parts I guess).

 

[pedullamvp5]

Well, if EBMM can offer "Gold" hardware in a minimal quanity of special run of LE basses and have no problem with flaking or chipping then it stands to reason that buying in a bigger quantity would be more feasible and cost effective, which means more profit. And if the buyer for rosewood or maple is on the phone with the supplier, it doesn't take much more time to ask for ebony? Plus buying more product from the supplier normally brings the price down for other products. Sure setting up the CNC machine for ebony might take a little time, so upcharge me an extra $150-$200 like every other manufacturer does! Guys, I'm not trying to make waves or enemies, I'm just asking the question...... And again I love EBMM products! But I don't want to buy a LE bass just to get gold harware, or purchase a "Oynx" to get an ebony fretboard. When I'm interested in a SR5....

 

[mynan]

I think you're over-estimating the demand for gold hardware and ebony fretboards. I seem to recall that GC accounts for about 20% of EBMMs production. Think about the amount of basses that GC orders and the fact that what they order is pretty generic...mostly stealth bongo 5, honeyburst sr5, natural sterling, black stingray, graphite pearl bongo 4, etc...they would never order an ebony fretboard or gold hardware for stock. I don't know what the percentage of orders go to overseas distributors for stock, but from what I've heard they are even more conservative. Why, because unfortunately for you, the MAJORITY of the paying public do not posess your creative genius. They aren't interested in ebony fretboards and gold hardware.

 

[oddjob]

I see where you are coming from but I still don't think you get it. Having been to both factories, having spoken to the EBMM staff I understand that there is a lot more involved than just stocking and retooling. The price of exotic wood is insane and I seem to remember a conversation about how EBMM got into a bidding war of an allotment of wood with an automanufacture.

I understand that you want it because YOU want it, but the world doesn't work that way. I wish my Pontiac had the same seats that are in a Caddy... both GM products, so why not??? Both are the same dimentions. I would have paid the extra cash to make my ride that much more cozy... so again why? Just because it is there doesn't mean I have a right to it. You want gold hardware (which would probably be the easiest of the options to put into place but doesn't make sence from a cost perspective - if it is a permanent option then you HAVE to keep floating stock onhand which cost money... but that aside), if you want it, there is always the aftermarket... Hipshot makes great gold tuners. I am sure there is a killer bridge manufacture out there - you want it go get it. You want ebony - I know at least 3 people in Cincinnati and Columbus that can steam a board off and replace it. You said you are willing to drop the $ so do it. It shouldn't be the manufactures job to follow your whims - it'd be nice but not practical.

If the wants were great enough to drive production I am sure BP would give it a glance, but the money needed to keep a small percent of the people happy, when there is an aftermarket, doesn't make sense. Case in point... I like green basses (sorry BP). Green basses for the most part don't sell. If BP makes a special run he can budget for the paint for just those basses, buy just enough for those basses, use ALL of the paint for just those basses in one or 2 runs, pass on the expense and be done with the green paint for good. However if he makes it an extra option, then he has to buy it and keep it in stock. He may or may not use it but because it is an option it has to be on hand. Time/money is lost cleaning paint guns for runs of 1 or 2 every now and then. And the paint could sit there eating up $ and inventory. Yeah the cost may not be significant but in the buisness world very dime counts. I may be happy with the green but EBMM would be losing money (no matter how little) on it. So upcharge for it... that may or may not cover the money but doesn't cover the lost time... so upcharge more for the time - at this point why bother.

Options have to make sense to be justified from the buisness end. Again it is nice that you want a SR5 but your choices are your choices - not to sound mean but if you don't like them you can choose something else or choose the aftermarket.

 

[oddjob]

I think you're over-estimating the demand for gold hardware and ebony fretboards. I seem to recall that GC accounts for about 20% of EBMMs production. Think about the amount of basses that GC orders and the fact that what they order is pretty generic...mostly stealth bongo 5, honeyburst sr5, natural sterling, black stingray, graphite pearl bongo 4, etc...they would never order an ebony fretboard or gold hardware for stock. I don't know what the percentage of orders go to overseas distributors for stock, but from what I've heard they are even more conservative. Why, because unfortunately for you, the MAJORITY of the paying public do not posess your creative genius. They aren't interested in ebony fretboards and gold hardware.

Exactly - that is why the #1 EBMM bass is the Black on Black SR - don't get me wrong, it is a great bass, but a little too boring for me (but the sales figures don't lie - the general public is boring)

 

[strummer]

Well, if EBMM can offer "Gold" hardware in a minimal quanity of special run of LE basses and have no problem with flaking or chipping then it stands to reason that buying in a bigger quantity would be more feasible and cost effective, which means more profit. And if the buyer for rosewood or maple is on the phone with the supplier, it doesn't take much more time to ask for ebony? Plus buying more product from the supplier normally brings the price down for other products. Sure setting up the CNC machine for ebony might take a little time, so upcharge me an extra $150-$200 like every other manufacturer does! Guys, I'm not trying to make waves or enemies, I'm just asking the question...... And again I love EBMM products! But I don't want to buy a LE bass just to get gold harware, or purchase a "Oynx" to get an ebony fretboard. When I'm interested in a SR5....

No you are not asking a question. Yes you did at first, and you were answered, so now you are arguing your case, but since you are not willing to listen you won't get much support for your arguments.

 

[lovenotfear]

first off I dont know that the brands that pedulla mentions is truly in our price point. I also dont thik that you options are unlimited......I have gone over this a zillion times just showing what happens if we add just one pick guard is is over 100 more choices at least.

THe sad fact is that most boutique guys go broke. There is a magic level of critical sales volume and economy of scale you have to have to succeed. How can you go broke if you charge more than me? Trulst me the woods are littered with guys trying to just make a living. Form the consumers point of view they just sold me a 4,000 bass! They must be rolling in the dough.

Just this year I am staring in t the faace of about 2 million dollars worth of factory improvements that really dont do anything but make sure that I can compete for a few more years.

It is not possible to make an instrument that retails for 2-2500 dollars and make the optionns unlimited THink it through without me divulging confidential dealer prices...what do you think I sell a guitar that retails for $1800?

i agree with Big Papa, and i would rather have a smaller concentrated line of models (instruments) than a crap load of options, and pay out the butt for it, the Musicman stuff has a certain mystery to it, or shall i say legendary tone, i rather him concentrate on getting a few instruments right and focusing in on that , then putting to much on his plate and quality control goes down, or either cost goes up, or the Musciman tone get lost in to many options, he does it right every time, why start changing things, when it works good the way it is, i know when i buy a MM bass, i will get a consistent tone every time, allot of the boutique guys can't claim that, why confuse the customer, make it easy, they know when they buy a MM they are getting that legendary tone and quality, and to be honest i have played allot of boutique basses, the cost $3000.00 and up, and the funny thing is their quality is not necessarily better or consistent, and they use third party pick up's etc... and MM makes their own, they built it from top to bottom knowing it works, yes some things they do are proprietary but it is best that way, because of consistency, Big Papa you do it right, every time, i like that he doesn't depend on 3rd party stuff, he knows his instruments from top to bottom, to me its nice to see a company with confidence in them selves to do it there way, and not rely on others, (i am not kissing up) its just the facts, i like a company that goes with their gut on what they think works, they take risks, that's why i love their stuff, its nice to buy from a company that is as passionate as i am about the bass or guitar for that matter.

 

[oli@bass]

I don't understand it, really. The question was about a Custom Shop. Custom Shop! Not about introducing new options into the main production line, but that is what everybody keeps arguing about.

And BTW, most EBMM's are probably black SR4 with maple board, because in large parts of the world, large parts of the sales people have no clue about large parts of the options that are already available, (sometimes not even the distributor knows about them), so what do you think they will sell their customers?! The black/maple SR4 they have on stock.

 

[mynan]

Read post #20, oli...

 

[oddjob]

Oli, what do you think a custom shop is... a real custom shop is all about options... maybe not to the line but options none the less.

BTW it is Black on Black because it sells. There is a beautiful purple MIA J at the local GC (and it is beautiful)... been on the wall for almost 2 years now (and it is resonably priced) - however they have sold over 10 Black J models priced in the same range in the past year... go figure!?!?!

 

[Hellboy]

Now come on, folks. pedullamvp5 has not been hostile in any way. This is a discussion forum and we must be able to discuss things without getting nasty towards one another. Get out of the sand box, lads.

//Jan

 

[Dr Stankface]

Now come on, folks. pedullamvp5 has not been hostile in any way. This is a discussion forum and we must be able to discuss things without getting nasty towards one another. Get out of the sand box, lads.

//Jan

+1

Thank you.