Diff between orig MM 76/77 and 78/79 pups

[mkat]

Can anyone in the know, comment on the differences in sound or any other (eg. technical would be great, but anything other than what's in the stickies) between the original MM String Ray bass '76/'77 (longer magnets extending beyond the bottom part of the pickup cover) and the '78/'79 (magnets flush with the bottom part of the cover) pickup? I'm only interested in the original pre Ernie Ball pickups at this stage, not any other brand.

Regards,

Michael

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

From what I've heard, the older PUPs, with the longer pole pieces, had a tendency to cut out when the strings were played hard. But that could very well be B.S.

 

[Musicman Nut]

Can anyone in the know, comment on the differences in sound or any other (eg. technical would be great, but anything other than what's in the stickies) between the original MM String Ray bass '76/'77 (longer magnets extending beyond the bottom part of the pickup cover) and the '78/'79 (magnets flush with the bottom part of the cover) pickup? I'm only interested in the original pre Ernie Ball pickups at this stage, not any other brand.

Regards,

Michael

Well as a owner of at least 6 of the radio Knob or 1976 Long Magnet Stingrays this is what I have noticed and after talking to Leo at a 1978 Namm Show, and why he discontinued them in early 1977 was
#1- When you bent the G string up between 2 magnets you'd hear a wierd drop out of the note
#2- the magnetic pull was so strong you could even get a wobble effect going on to where the note would sound out of tune.

So for Pound for Pound and my 15 years of testing Poxy/ Non Poxy, Series 1 Op Amp the the newer ones from 1977 til now pretty much.

The Ernie Ball Music Man Stingrays 4 bolts from 1985 to 1990 2 band preamp version will smoke any 1976 to 1980 Stingray, but I do understand the need to tell your friends you have a Stringsthru Ray and they are pricey, But sound for sound and feel for feel try one. DJ

 

[mkat]

Thanks for the info. This is the kind of info I was after. It's interesting that the early designers would use the longer magnets. Past experience shows on occassion that it's not always the best design that influences the product, but ongoing costs.

Musicman Nut, great stuff on the issues with the earlier pickup design. BTW, there is no intention on my behalf to discredit the Ernie Ball series at all so no need to worry there. I'm just interested in the differences and evolution in design and the reasons that influenced the design. The latter is sometimes difficult to attain, even if the relevant people will discuss it because there is a tendancy to protect the product which sometimes leads to distortion of the facts.

Gav, you've done a great job with the info you've put together. Is there a chance to provide further information of a technical nature to your pages?

Also, as a matter of interest, is the output weaker or stronger in the '76/'77 pickup?

Regards,

Michael

 

[Musicman Nut]

Thanks for the info. This is the kind of info I was after. It's interesting that the early designers would use the longer magnets. Past experience shows on occassion that it's not always the best design that influences the product, but ongoing costs.

Musicman Nut, there is no intention on my behalf to discredit the Ernie Ball series at all so no need to worry there. I'm just interested in the differences and evolution in design and the reasons that influenced the design. The latter is sometimes difficult to attain, even if the relevant people will discuss it because there is a tendancy to protect the product which sometimes leads to distortion of the facts.

Gav, you've done a great job with the info you've put together. Is there a chance to provide further information of a technical nature to your pages?

Also, as a matter of interest, is the output weaker or stronger in the '76/'77 pickup?

Regards,

Michael

Hey Michael, The output tends to be hotter with More Magnetic field, And so you know, I don't work for Ernie Ball so please don't feel I was being over protective but what your going through now i did the same and spent all the late 70's, 80's and 90's messing around with old good and bad.

And for me what works so well is the years of 1985 thru 1990, Im sure I have at least 50 of those basses and the rest are 6 bolts which I really love.

EB's quality control these days we're a million times better then the seventies, Not so much Leos fault as much as it's technology has come a long ways. DJ

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

Dave...just a date line check with the long pole piece PUPs.

When did they decide to delete them?

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

Hi Michael.

>>>Is there a chance to provide further information of a technical nature to your pages ?

I haven't tested the long pole PUPs.

With regards to the shorter pole PUPs, I've measured a 1978:

Each coil has an approx resistance of 3.9 Kohms and impedance of approx 1.4 H.

As the coils are in parallel, that gives a total resistance of approx 1.9 Kohms and a total impedance of approx 700 mH.

A 1989 and a 1994 give the same resistance readings. I haven't measured their impedance.

I spoke to a tech at the factory last year about the resistance readings. He confirmed that the current EB Ray PUPs are the same as the Pre-EBs but we didn't specifically discuss the long pole piece versions.

 

[bdgotoh]

My long pole pickup coils are 2.55 and 2.52 K ohms.

 

[bovinehost]

#2- the magnetic pull was so strong you could even get a wobble effect going on to where the note would sound out of tune.

I've had that experience.

And if Leo could hear it, then anyone could hear it. God bless him, he was as deaf as a bat.

Jack

 

[mkat]

Gav, your site was the first that I saw a resistance reading along with some other really useful info, so I thank you for that, and the clarification is good to know especially in comparison with the later pickups.

bdgotoh, was the measurement taken with the pickup attached to the preamp or not? If not, this is really helpful information. Now, resonant peak is what is more accurate, but the resistance is also interesting compared with the later models.

DJ, yeah, there are a few factors that are impacted by a lack of QA. I haven't read up much on the changes to the preamps yet, but they do impact the sound significantly. So, slight changes in coil and preamp design, and implementation (following high standard of QA) will be enough to improve the sound considerably.

Regards,

Michael

 

[Musicman Nut]

Dave...just a date line check with the long pole piece PUPs.

When did they decide to delete them?

Hey Gav, I've had Basses as early as Feb and March 1977 with Long Pole Pieces, By June I think they had all but been gone. DJ

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

Thanks Dave. Making sure I have my records correct

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

>>>bdgotoh, was the measurement taken with the pickup attached to the preamp or not?

That's a good point.

If the ground wire from the PUP is unsoldered, that will give a true total resistance reading for the whole PUP. Then it's a matter of maths to work out the resistance of each coil.