Dimarzio/Kinman/Fralin Comparison

[johanguitarist]

Hi All!

I am thinking of swapping out my stock Dimarzios singles in my Silo Special (SSS) in the neck and mid position, but to still keep the Duncan JB Jnr (single-coil sized humbucker) in the bridge position as is there at the moment.

Question: What should I expect in terms of difference in sound from the stock Dimarzios to either Kinman Blues (AVn-62) or to Fralin Blues Specials?

Question 2, with the Kinmans, have I understood it right I will not get hum-cancelling in the position with split Duncan and Kinman together (middle+bridge). Would it be possible to wire in the silent-circuit to quiet the Duncan (splitted) in this position?

Anything else to think about?

JJ

 

[candid_x]

Hi Johan,

I put an SSS set of blues specials (w/base plate in bridge) in one of my Silo Specials and they sound great. They're more dimensional and responsive than stock. Also, the stock pickups sound woollier and the blues specials sound more glassy. (good or bad thing?)

But bear in mind, this is in a maple fingerboard guitar, which has a fairly, I guess ya'd call it neutral and clear sound, no matter which pickups are used in it.

Contrary to my other Silo Special (w/rosewood board), which is very warm and tonal. I've been tempted to switch the pickguards, to try the Fralin's in the warmer guitar, but I like the stock singles in that guitar a lot, though I've replaced the stock DiMarzio humbucker with a Breed.

Don't know if this was helpful. More and more my response to these kinds of things is: it depends. One thing sounds great with another. But change one element, and all bets are off. But then try that same guitar in a different amp or amp setting, and voila! holy grail du jour.

 

[Mick]

I have kinmans in every single coil guitar I own! Never looked back, you will get the 3D sound you ever wanted and more. The blues set is great good dynamics, good bridge tone.

Go to kinman.com for questions. He is a great and very funny dude.

 

[beej]

Without sounding like a commercial, another great option for noiseless is Bill Lawrence. I've put the L200s up against the other main noiseless p'ups and I personally like them the best. They're now in my AL and Morse. (They're also much cheaper than anything else.)

Question 2: yes, you can do that. I just did up a wiring diagram for Mark's Luke (see the "My Butchered and Well GiggedLuke" thread). You'll still get some hum in that position, but the SC will work. And, if you don't like, it, you just unsolder one wire to take it out of the circuit.

 

[mesavox]

Hi Johan,

I put an SSS set of blues specials (w/base plate in bridge) in one of my Silo Specials and they sound great. They're more dimensional and responsive than stock. Also, the stock pickups sound woollier and the blues specials sound more glassy. (good or bad thing?)

But bear in mind, this is in a maple fingerboard guitar, which has a fairly, I guess ya'd call it neutral and clear sound, no matter which pickups are used in it.

Contrary to my other Silo Special (w/rosewood board), which is very warm and tonal. I've been tempted to switch the pickguards, to try the Fralin's in the warmer guitar, but I like the stock singles in that guitar a lot, though I've replaced the stock DiMarzio humbucker with a Breed.

Don't know if this was helpful. More and more my response to these kinds of things is: it depends. One thing sounds great with another. But change one element, and all bets are off. But then try that same guitar in a different amp or amp setting, and voila! holy grail du jour.

I really want to get a Silo Special with rosewood and put Lindey Blues Specials in it... I had a cheap poplar strat with them in it (that was part of the first house break in... dang... who'd think you could miss stuff like that...) and they were too bright in it, but they were still very versatile. Well, the bridge with the baseplate was too bright... the rest was perfect. I've wanted an SS with them ever since.

I also want an ash SS with maple board to put the Lindey Tele Blues Specials in... Dave Moyse's strat and tele are like these combinations, and he has amazing sounds.

It's starnge that a modern sounds guy like me (I want lots of petruccis. LOL) wants these two guitars so bad... lol But, every once and a while I want to see if I can sound like Joe Walsh. LOL

 

[candid_x]

Kevin, so would I like to try that. I've even considered trading the maple for another rosewood, to do just that with a set of blues. I'm pretty sure that it has more to do with the body than just the rosewood board, but whichever it is, the difference between is significant, regardless of which pickups are in these particular two guitars. Thing is, I like the maple one better for playing. I've never seen action so perfect.

 

[whitestrat]

My White Silo now is a Godsend... The Cruisers and the FRED make a great combo. It sounds great with anything, and in every genre... From Blues to Metal. Anything goes. I'll most likely upgrade the FRED to a Mojoe for a bigger sound, since it's Alder.

 

[johanguitarist]

beej, you got me interested in the lawrence PU's, but I cant find the L200s anywhere! The only singles I can find are the S1, S2 and S3s.

Are they discontinued?

JJ

 

[jamminjim]

I'm not Jason, but here is Bill Lawrences website where he sells his pickups.

Home Page

And these are the NF models where you'll find the L200's.

Wilde Bill's NF Singles

 

[brownpants69]

Without sounding like a commercial, another great option for noiseless is Bill Lawrence. I've put the L200s up against the other main noiseless p'ups and I personally like them the best. They're now in my AL and Morse. (They're also much cheaper than anything else.)

Question 2: yes, you can do that. I just did up a wiring diagram for Mark's Luke (see the "My Butchered and Well GiggedLuke" thread). You'll still get some hum in that position, but the SC will work. And, if you don't like, it, you just unsolder one wire to take it out of the circuit.

This is such an easy wiring mod to do! Even I can do it It's very straight forward to get the silent circuit connected up to this setup (once you get hold of a wiring diagram... thanks Jason!)

 

[beej]

I'm not Jason, but here is Bill Lawrences website where he sells his pickups.

Yep, that's it. In a nutshell, the L200s are the "strattiest" of his p'ups. Feel free to PM me if you have any q's, I've tried most of them at some point or another.

This is such an easy wiring mod to do! Even I can do it It's very straight forward to get the silent circuit connected up to this setup (once you get hold of a wiring diagram... thanks Jason!)

Glad it all worked out for ya, happy to help.

 

[johanguitarist]

Thanks for all the tips and links to the right website! I am definetly curious now...

How would u compare the L200s to the kinman blues or the fralin blues specials?

 

[beej]

My two cents ... (worth exactly what you pay for it!)

Fralin makes great pickups, but I haven't tried his noiseless ones yet. I think the best-of-breed single coils still sound better than the best noiseless. Guys like Fralin, Lollar, Suhr, Lawrece (via his "Keystone" brand, also excellent and lower noise than most) you can't go wrong with most of their traditional singles.

Noiseless is tougher, there are a few different approaches to them and the technology is still improving. Some of the noiseless p'ups sound like humbuckers, they compress and need large pots to make them brighter. No good. The better designs have the chime and frequency response of singles, and don't need brightening up to sound good.

In my travels, I thought the Kinmans I'd played were ok, but lacked the clarity of good singles. Just my own opinion, they work great for a lot of guys. The Dimarzio Areas I really liked, but they compress when you really dig into them. With a bit of gain you can hear it. I always liked the Lawrence L280s, but they were too even across the frequencies- kinda like the way EMGs are. But with the L200s, they have the frequency dips that make them really stratty. I found them to be the closest thing to good singles, and love 'em.

If noise is an issue- if you play with a bit of gain, on noisy stages, etc. then noiseless are a good way to go. But I do think the best SCs sound better. It's all a trade-off. I had a set of Suhr FLs that I loved, but noise was an issue. I love the original AL Duncans, same deal. The L200s get me 95% of the way there, and I'm happy with the trade-off.

 

[johanguitarist]

Thanks beej and everyone for the inputs. I am interested in the L200s but I would like to hear some more samples of them...I checked Bills forum and there are some there, but it some more wouldnt hurt. Any tips? I do play a lot with a lot of gain, mostly on the JB Jnr (bridge) but also on the neck pup, so noiseless would be a good idea indeed! I also play clean so I would very much like to stay with singles in the neck and middle.

Also, In my other post about the stock Dimarzios I found the treble being very harsch, and the other day I compared the stock pups with a Mexican Strat through a cheap amp (I live in thre Baltics and there is not a lot of shops with good gear here ) and I found the Strat to be more "middy" in both neck and middle+neck. It is almost like my stock pups doesnt have any mid at all actually...or very little at least...and a lot around the "ice-pick" treble...Hmm...

 

[Rufedges]

Hi Johan,

But bear in mind, this is in a maple fingerboard guitar, which has a fairly, I guess ya'd call it neutral and clear sound, no matter which pickups are used in it.

.

I think that was what was throwing me off at first with my maple neck AXIS SS,,, first maple neck owned ever. I had a Duncan JB - Bridge and a Duncan 59 - Neck in my previous guitar with a rosewood fretboard, liked the sound very much, covered a lot of ground.

 

[candid_x]

I think that was what was throwing me off at first with my maple neck AXIS SS,,, first maple neck owned ever. I had a Duncan JB - Bridge and a Duncan 59 - Neck in my previous guitar with a rosewood fretboard, liked the sound very much, covered a lot of ground.

Yeah. The clearness of my maple Silo works best when running through an amp/speaker that has some color inherent in them. I'm currently breaking in a Jensen Neo 12/100, which I was somewhat skeptical of, but which surprised me. It's very transparent, and sounds like only what is run through it. Yet I wouldn't say it sounds hi-fi either, just very balanced. Anyhow, running my maple board Special through it was disappointing... no color. But, tuned in the Bassman voicing with a little slap-echo (it's in a Fender SCXD in a Newell cab), and that maple board spank really comes to life! Whereas my colorful sounding rosewood board Special sounds muddy in that setting.

 

[aaroa]

DiMarzio has a ton of flavors out there. It just takes a little homework to decide what'll work best. Steve Blucher is a great guy to talk to in order to steer you in the right direction. I have Fralins in my Grosh and I love them. I have a set of DiMarzio 36th PAF's in my PRS and they sound great too. Never tried the Kinman's... but I'd probably just go for DiMarzio.

 

[whitestrat]

I think for noiseless, the DiMarzio Area 67s are a great bet.

I've used all the Kinman sets before... And almost twice for every set. Honestly, they're great noiseless pups... REALLY quiet. But with that silence, you lose something that I've come to expect from real single coils... Shimmer and chime. The Kinmans still have some good bell tones, especially the hank marvin sets, but they're a bit sterile for me... And they're quite hard to work on, unlike real single coils. So, if you're not really going for the dynamics that a true single will provide, by all means, use Kinmans. But if you're going to want that single coil shimmer, then honestly, you'll have to bear with a bit of noise, as no noiseless pups will sound like them. The closest I've come across oddly comes form DiMarzios... The Area 67s are like that.

The Cruisers are also like that, but with a twist. I like that twist, so I'm sticking with those.