EB/MM Basses and Solo Players

[kakobass]

I'm trying to prove myself wrong. . . Why is it that not too many solo artists/bass players play EB/MM basses?

As a bass nerd, I do have a good collection of music from bass players, like Victor Wooten, Marcus Miller, Adam Nitti, Patitucci, Matt Garrison, Victor Bailey, Michael Manring, Gary Willis, etc, etc.

But I can't recall any of these virtuosos/shredders playing an EB/MM. (Tony Levin to me is a master sideman more than a solo artist, so he doesn't count.) Dave LaRue comes to mind, but is he also known more as a master sideman than a solo artist.


-Is it because bass players think of EB/MMs more as supportive or foundation basses than solo instruments?

-I could think that it is because many of these artist tend to have a relationship with high-end luthiers, instead of production instruments.

-But then, you see Victor Bailey and Marcus Miller playing Fender, or Gary Willis playing Ibanez, for example.

-Maybe players associate EB/MM more with rock, pop, r&B, and funk, than jazz and fusion?

The only fusion record that I have been able to find featuring an EB/MM is John Scofield 1987's "Pick and Hits," with Gary Grainer on a StingRay (this CD is a must for fusion/funk and StingRay fans, by the way).

Or maybe it's just coincidence, and this whole subject is just irrelevant, and I should go and take the dog for a walk.

.

 

[hankSRay]

funny how all the artists you mention have their own signature model basses. Maybe that has something to do with it

 

[strummer]

Manring used to play Stingrays, and prolly still do from time to time. he's even on an old Bass Player cover grilling marshmallows on a SR.

 

[draganr]

all the guys from the list are jazz musicians, or most of them.. music man basses are not suited for playing solos,and doesnt have "that" tone...btw, richard bona is also on the list)) he plays fodera, like marcus miller and wooten( they not play only fenders...). those types of soft tone yet with presence and cut are welcome for such of players. im sure they find MM basses to be too much active and aggressive. like you said-they find it being more associative with pop rock funk etc than jazz. and they re right - arent they?

 

[KennethB]

Well, I actually do think you have a point, kako. The Stingray is my favorite bass in the world. But when it comes to playing fast fusion or jazz stuff, walking basslines etc. my Jazz fits better. It makes me wonder, why? Is it a sound thing? A feel thing? Both? Or is it simply being used to hearing that sound put in certain musical context? Is it because my MMs are fretted and my Jazz is a fretless? I'm not sure.
But what I do know is that the Stingray has a very "massive" sound that moves a lot of air and with a big, very pronounced attack.
The Jazz is softer and more "transparent", moves less air but is a bit "quicker".
I remember playing two "fusion" tunes. "Birdland" and "Donna Lee".
"Birdland" was great with the Stingray. "Donna Lee" was great with the Jazz but not so good with the Stingray. I tried to play it with the Stingray but a I had a hard time getting it clean enough. There was the fret-noise issue to deal with but even after that also the attack of each note. I felt it was too strong.
To be able to voice a more informed opinion I should try it with a fretless MM but I haven't had the chance yet.
But it makes me wonder about a lot of things when it comes to bass design.
For instance; the frets on the Stingray are huge, jumbos. What would it be like with medium jumbos or vintage-sized on? How would it change the sound and feel? Have they tried it? What made they decide to go with jumbos? And so on....
There's only two things I would ever consider modifying on a 'Ray and that is fretsize and stringspacing at the bridge. I wonder how it would be with ever so slightly wider spacing back there, like the Jazz.
I have tried with narrower spacing on my Stingray which didn't work.
I went back to the original specs.
And some people call me a bass-nerd...............

 

[Caca de Kick]

I don't know...but taking the dog for a walk is good exercise and helps clear the mind.

 

[PocketGroove82]

I must admit that I was first attracted to the stingray because of the insane slap stylings of Flea and the HUGE finger tone he got on the solo from Airplane. But now, even he has moved on to his modulus sig. model!
So, this leads me to believe that many of these player are bought off by the highest bidder.
They say, "who is gonna offer me the most money and the best deal if I become a walking add?"
Not to mention, untill the invention of the duel pup rays, the ray was typecast as a one-trick funk pony.
I think the top guys play on what is custom and expensive because they feel their tone improves with price, which is only half true.
And it's cool to have a custom made fordera or ken smith!
But even the guys who's sig. models are relatively cheap (ie. john patitucci, jeff berlin) use ultra-highend tube amps and cabs to "create" their tone.
Just cause a EBMM won't run you 3000bucks doesn't mean it can't produce 3000buck tone. And I use mine for everything jazz, every gig, I just have to get creative with my nobs.
Well, till I can afford a custom ken smith 5! Hmmm....guess I need to make Sergeant soon!

 

[koogie2k]

There are other basses out there?????.......

Some artists I think go for a siggy model as I don't see a siggy model in the EB line...unless the Sterling is a "siggy"....and EB does not, "offer" I guess would be the word. Or has offered to do a signature bass but the artist declined citing the basses as they are now are good enough. I believe that is why we don't see the Dave LaRue signature...he loves his Blue Dawn bongo. That is the artist advantage...they get the color of their choosing as well as other things...but c'mon....it's Dave LaRue, he should get what he wants.

But back OT....I don't really know too many "solo" artists along the lines you are thinking of.

 

[Colin]

....I don't really know too many "solo" artists along the lines you are thinking of.

If there was too many, they'd all be broke. As I can't see them making a living from it.

 

[Brim]

I believe Marcus Miller plays Pedulla fretless basses, in addition to his beloved '75 Fender Jazz (with Sadowsky preamp). Put simply, he's beat on his Jazz for 30 something years plus so he's got his sound. And if you read his website's FAQ's, he'll be the first to admit the flaws of this particular instrument, but he's got the sound he wants. So...if the Stingray does it for you - why change? Marcus sure hasn't.

It's true Manring played a fretless Stingray for a while, and probably still has one or two laying around, but he started to experiment with multiple detunings (not just the E-string) in his compositions and the stingray just couldn't keep up - hence the Hyperbass by Zon (you could get 2 or 3 stingrays for the price of the Hyperbass) with detuners at the tuning keys & bridge was born. In this case, the Stringray served him well but utlimately his playing style out grew the instrument.

Just a few of my thoughts. I only wish I could one day be 1/10th as "good" as the players mentioned above. Until then I'll stick with my Sterling fretless - because it does it for me now.

 

[kakobass]

I guess by "solo" artist I meant recognized bass player that lead their own bands. There are tons of bass players in this category making a good living. Others I'm thinking of: Oteil, Stu Hamm, Billy Sheehan, Stanley Clarke, Christian McBride.

And I know that many of these player use or have used other brands than those I mentioned, but what I'm talking about is players that have made the MM sound their signature sound, like Tony Levin, for example.

I got thinking about this because SR5s and Sterlings have one of the most playable necks that allow for some fast playing, and soloing produces some sweet, fat notes in the upper registers. Tapping also sounds fantastic.

But I agree that most fusion cats want a super-clear tone that is very articulate in those super-intricate runs, and the MM sound maybe has too much information and is too complex to let those runs come out clear.

Funny that Tony Levin only got his signature model in the import licensed copies, instead of an American model.

And, I also got thinking about this because on the guitar side of EB/MM they do have many players/shredders, and even many signature models, like Steve Morse, Luke, the Dream Theather dude, and others.

 

[Colin]

There are tons of bass players in this category making a good living. Others I'm thinking of: Oteil, Stu Hamm, Billy Sheehan, Stanley Clarke, Christian McBride.

Still not many that could really be classed as a true solo artist. Hired guns that have spent more time in other peoples bands maybe. Stanley Clarke I would consider a solo artist.

 

[ras1983]

they can use whatever they want, i'll stick with my bongo.

as far as i know, EBMM has never created a signature bass for anyone, so that could very well explain why there aren't any 'solo' bass players using EBMMs.

even fodera offers a vic wooten classic or something, fender gives nearly anyone a sig. model.

Also, it feels good to know that my EBMM bongo is EXACTLY the same as everyone elses (Aside from pup configs or colours etc).

 

[Mr Light]

My $0.02

Hello,

I love Victor Wooten, but unless Fodera gave me one of their basses for free (as endorsement), I wouldn't buy one. Even if I had the money! The prices of these so called "boutique" basses are out of control.

I love Sadowsky, but why should I pay $2200 for a bass, when I can get a Fender Marcus Miller signature for half of the price???!!!

I think the prices would be different if these companies (Fodera, Sadowsky and others like them) manufactured somewhere different than New York. I think people are really paying more to help them keep shop there than paying for the cost of the instrument/craftsmanship, etc.

Along the same argument: Why would I pay GC $4000.00 for a vintage MusicMan when I can get a one fresh off of the line at less than half of the price. At least I know the history behind the instrument---I'm it's first user! I say this even though I'd love to have an old MusicMan for keep's sake, but I can't afford it.

 

[Caca de Kick]

While this topic brings up a point for discussion, I'm trying to think of bass playing solo artists that only play one model of bass...of names mentioned there are very few that stick with one model bass. Sure alot of names mentioned have their most popular seen bass, but also have a closet full of other basses they use for recording etc.

While true no bassist gets an EBMM sig model (and why is it needed, MM's sell just fine), back in the earlier 90's Tony Levin got a special StingRay made for him...it only had three strings! (it later burned in a fire though)

-Mike

 

[Mr Light]

While this topic brings up a point for discussion, I'm trying to think of bass playing solo artists that only play one model of bass...of names mentioned there are very few that stick with one model bass. Sure alot of names mentioned have their most popular seen bass, but also have a closet full of other basses they use for recording etc...

-Mike

Good point. Bernard Edwards recorded with MusicMan Stingray and Fender Precision. However, he is always pictured with a BC Rich because, according to Marcus Miller's website, they "looked cool." (IMO, They're ugly!) In Marcus's FAQ section on his website, he was asked about Bernard and that was mentioned. Besides, when musicians or producers are hot, they don't want to give up their secret weapons right off, anyway! Which makes sense.

 

[Mr Light]

...Here's a treasure...

The one and only Bernard Edwards of CHIC.

 

[Bill]

That's such a cool photo!

 

[Colin]

...Here's a treasure...

The one and only Bernard Edwards of CHIC.

ah..... freak out! what a great bass line and recorded with a great bass. He even makes those glasses look cool

 

[Caca de Kick]

Bernard on his Ray....

[nomedia="http://youtube.com/watch?v=TicuyhN7UYs"]YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.[/nomedia]