EBMM - From an objective point of view

[menvafaan]

(To get things straight from the start: by "objective", in this case, I mean trying to see it from a non-EBMM-player point of view. I know tone, feel and such things are subjective by nature.)

We all know how awesome these instruments are, and we all have our own reasons for playing them and hanging around here at the official forum.

But how do outsiders actually view EBMM guitars? Compared to other brands in the similar (and higher) price divisions, what are EBMM's main advantages, and main disadvantages? What are these instruments' strongest and weakest points?

I haven't heard that much, but what I've been picked up is that everyone (really!) seem to totally love the necks. When EBMM comes up in a discussion, people always praise the neck and the feel. On the contrary, the few "weak points" I've heard about (and it's just a few times, actually) are comments about that the stock pickups ain't that special.

So, what are the general opinions of EBMM out there? What makes people chose EBMM, and what (besides the obvious ignorance ) could make people chose some other brand (given they're giving each instrument an equal shot)?

Discuss and share your experiences and thoughts.

(If this thread, for some reason, is not considered appropriate by the authorities of the forum, please let me know and I will remove it)

 

[wolfbone07]

The stock pickup thing is not true. I think that EBMM guitars have the best stock pickups of any guitars I have ever bought. I am least likely to change the pickups in my EBMM guitars.

One problem is others not being willing to give them a try. Ignorance is the main obstacle. Ignorance can be overcome. Stoooopid on the other hand, there's no help for that!

 

[DevRock]

I'll jump in, since I just purchased my first EBMM. My view on them was that they don't appeal to a wide base. I can't really explain it, but a lot of EBMM fans seem to be fans of the popular players of the particular models (i.e. VH fans love the Axis). I think a lot of players feel they have to play the same guitars as their heroes!

And since the price point is quite high for NEW models (an AXIS is nearly $1700), it is out of reach for many of us. (I got mine used for $1200 which was my absolute limit.) It's a "boutiquey" brand to me for some reason.

That being said, you don't understand how incredible these guitars until you actually play them. As soon as I plugged mine in, I was blown away by the feel and sound of my AXIS. It wasn't until then that I realized why all you guys are EBMM zealots. These guitars just have a special mojo about them.

 

[bkrumme]

The primary one I can think of, which happens to be a HUGE misconception is that all of the guitars have bolt-on necks. For some reason, there are players out there who think bolt-on necks ruin your sustain. This simply isn't true.

Also, like DevRock said, there are tons of players out there who want to play what their heroes play. It just so happens that lots of the guitar "heroes" out there play guitars OTHER than EBMM. This is especially true in the metal world...which is where I see lots of young guys. All of their heroes play ESP, Ibby, Schecter, etc. so that's what they will gravitate to. Really, there are a handful of AMAZING players who endorse EBMM guitars, but many of them aren't what would be considered "mainstream" artists.

 

[fsmith]

I have to take exception to the stock pickup issue too... I've never felt a need to replace the stock pickups (humbuckers) in any of my EBMM guitars. When I think of great pickups the Axis comes to mind first and the Petrucci pickups are incredible too. Oh yeah those Morse pickups aren't too shabby either. Sorry I can't buy that complaint.

I've had other guitars in the past the absolute *first* thing I did was replace the pickups. Sold the pickups and then sold the guitars...

I've never had an issue with the bolt in neck perception and sustain. Sounds like cork-sniffing to me. If I'm going to have an issue with a neck I'll be glad it's a bolt on.

I really don't care what others think but I can tell you this. You better keep an eye on EBMM, there are some potential new heavy hitters making noise with and about their guitars, especially the 25th.

fred

 

[DevRock]

Yeah, I'll admit to only wanting neck-thrus. My Jackson Soloist is and I love it to death. But the sustain and resonance of the AXIS seems to blow away any guitar I've ever picked up and put that bias to rest for the most part.

Personally, I wish the AXIS had 24 frets, but.... The upper fret access on the AXIS could be a lot better, but I don't want to go too OT.

 

[ShaneV]

The primary one I can think of, which happens to be a HUGE misconception is that all of the guitars have bolt-on necks. For some reason, there are players out there who think bolt-on necks ruin your sustain. This simply isn't true.

Also, like DevRock said, there are tons of players out there who want to play what their heroes play. It just so happens that lots of the guitar "heroes" out there play guitars OTHER than EBMM. This is especially true in the metal world...which is where I see lots of young guys. All of their heroes play ESP, Ibby, Schecter, etc. so that's what they will gravitate to. Really, there are a handful of AMAZING players who endorse EBMM guitars, but many of them aren't what would be considered "mainstream" artists.

That's actually what drew me to EBMM. I was in the market for a bolt on 25.5" scale guitar, and Fender was at one of their lowest points in recent history as far as quiality, while simultaneously giving a signature model to everyone who had a top 40 hit.

I had a book that had short profiles of every guitar company ever, and in the short synopsis it talked about EBMM's list of endorsees: Steve Lukather, Steve Morse, Albert Lee (JP was still with Ibanez at this point)- people who you wouldn't choose to give a signature model to because it would sell re branded, unimaginative garbage to teenagers, people you would choose to work with because they were at the top of their game. I thought that any company that would choose a list of endorsees like that had to be more about quality than flash, and that's exactly what I wanted. I also was/am a huge EVH fan and even though I MUCH prefer the Dave era, it seemed to me that EB was the company he chose to make his guitars when he was basing the decision on quality, not money, and I'll stop there before I go to far into that which must not be spoken of.

Anyway, that was my perception of EBMM from the outside, back in the day- the list of signature models meant a lot in my decision process, even though I ended up with a Silo Special, and not any particular signature model.

 

[Jason2112]

The thing with pickups is that it's a personal preference thing. There are some people that absolutely have to have a particular pickup no matter what the stock pickups sound like or the brand of guitar. I have a personal preference for a particular brand of single coil pickups that I end up using in every SC-equipped guitar I own, but I still try to give the stock pickups a fair shake. Case in point - the stock pickups in my ASS will never be replaced, they just sound right in that guitar.

This topic has come up a few times and there really is no clear answer as to why more people don't play MM guitars. The basses seem pretty popular, but the guitars in particular don't get much love. Like I always say, play gear that you like, not what impresses people.

 

[mikeller]

Stock pickups are one of the many appeals of EBMM guitars to me, they are fantastic. After years of swapping them in & out of well known other makers guitars and tossing plenty of money away only to find out that the guitar still didn't make me happy, I stumbled on EBMM. I have never ever since felt the need to swap parts. I get to play it now instead of putz with it!!!

 

[Fusionman]

The gtrs and the EB company are generally well regarded and well respected.

The largest complaint that I have read about by most non-mm players is regarding the 1 and 5/8 nut width.

Physically large humans (I am in this group) have said that the gtrs look very small in comparison to the usual iconic models made by others but this is really not a complaint as much as an observation. LOL

 

[nobozos]

Ya know, I don't really think you can get around the ignorance part of it. If the question is, what would turn someone off to EBMM guitars once they had an opportunity to play them, I can't think of a sinlge reason.

If the question is why don't more people play them, I do have a theory:

It's the way EBMM sells guitars. This is not a critisizm by any means. I actually think that this is why the company is as great as it is, but for the function of analysis of this topic, I think it's pertinent.

It's because EBMM doesnt make a guitar until they have an order for it.

Most other manufacturers just crank out guitars off the line, and dictate to their dealers how many they need to have on their shelves based on their market. If you are an EBMM dealer, and you want a guitar on your shelf, you have to order it. This brings us to the point of the store owners perspective. He may be afraid to maintain a large inventory and selection of EBMM guitars for fear of them not selling. Most EBMM guitars occupy a price range above $1400. If the dealer is carrying EBMM, more than likely they will have other high end brands like P__l R__d Sm_th, Gi__on or others. The sad fact is that those other manufacturers will stock more of a selection than the store owner will choose to have for the EBMM shelf stock. The result is that most players that go shopping for a guitar never get to see all what EBMM has to offer, but they will be overwhelmed by the selection of the other brands.

We as guitar players know that buying a guitar is a purchase that requires somewhat of an emotional connection, and sometimes impulse. If we don't get a chance to see it, and more importantly, feel it in our hands when we are in the guitar store, we never get a chance to build that emotional connection to the instrument.

So, that leads to the dilemma. Do we really want EBMM to change the way they do business? Do we really want them cranking out guitars and forcing the dealers to maintain a minimum stock, or do we prefer to keep things the way they are? It's a tough question to answer. My opinion is, as long as the buisiness is doing okay, I could really give a **** whether the brand is popular with other people or not. I kind of like being in the minority. When every other live band is using brand X, and I'm using EBMM, I feel like I know something they don't know. Plus, it sets you apart from the other guy.

 

[B2D]

I think the general opinion of EBMMs from the outside, based on what I see, is that they're very high quality guitars but not for everyone. And when I say that I mean that I've heard people say the following when it comes to personal cons:

- The neck isn't big enough or the nut width too narrow
- It's not a "traditional" instrument along the lines of a take on a stock Fender or Gibson
- Too light/small in body size.
- Frets are too small

And honestly I think those are comments on personal preference more than anything else. I've never heard anyone dispute the quality or the workmanship. I regularly hear people praise:

- Neck shape/profile
- craftsmanship
- overall feel and tone of the guitars

 

[balance]

Many guitarists are creatures of habit and tradition...if there is not an F or G on the headstock, they want nothing to do with it. Then there is the other end of the spectrum for the ultra-boutique crowd that only think it's good if it's a smaller boutique brand that is ultra-expensive. Not saying there is anything wrong with that, but I think companies like EBMM and Tom Anderson fall into the middle-ground. I think the build quality and consistency at EBMM cannot be matched for the price point.

Me, I'd rather play what sounds good, feels good, and works for me. EBMM does not follow the mold of making just another S, T, or LP style guitar and putting a different name on the headstock. I like the variety and originality of the models available, which are fairly unique in an overcrowded market.

 

[brownpants69]

Re: Pickups

Horses for courses. I know people that have swapped out pickups on Tom Andersons, PRS and vintage (60s!) Fenders. I think pickups are always the first thing to go on a guitar if it doesn't provide you with the perceived "that tone." I've swapped out pickups on one of my MM guitars- just cause I didnt get on with them with the particular setup I was using.

The stock pickups are AWESOME if they suit your style and tone, but they SUCK if they don't In my case it was the EMGs- I went from having 5 guitars with EMGs and in 2 months I had ripped them out of all of them!


RE: Bolt on Necks

I thought the Bolt on vs Thru/glue in neck thing went out in the 70's/80's, along with granite heavy bodies and brass nuts.

My guitar tech for years (who was also a highly renowned local luthier to the west midlands rock elite) swore that resonance and sustain was a result of the resonant frequencies of the body and neck- they had to be a certain interval between neck and body to work properly.

I certainly think that bolt on necks have a certain tone- more snappy percussive, and I guess Gibbo and PRS players generally don't go for bolt on necks, IMO.


MY TWO CENTS: I think guitarists fear change- in fact this is a well known issue with guitarists. It's the reason why new guitar designs rarely take off. This is why the tele, strat, les paul and 335 rule the roost when it comes to market share. I also think that MusicMan, from what I gather from my friends/bandmates etc, is perceived as a "Session dude" or techno wizz brand. Not an "honest" and "real" design- whatever! I'm happy I'm part of an exclusive group

 

[ScoobySteve]

From an objective perspective I think what sets EBMM apart at the price range is the features and craftsmanship.

Now firstly, this is in now way knocking on Gibson, or PRS, just saying that for me, the necks and fretwork are amazing. On my custom LP I've had a personal luthier work on my refret and those were great. Upon playing a couple Silos, Al's and JP's I have to say that having such craftsmanship on a stock instrument is quite impressive.

Secondly, the features, including the style. Not many companies offer the vast array of features that EBMM does. JP Trem, Floyd, Schaller locking, hardtails, vintage trems, P90's, MM90's, the EMGs on the Luke, the neck profiling of the luke, pickguard combinations, Silo Spec combinations, BFR line w/ different wood compositions, and most importantly PIEZO!!!!!! and unique body styling and finishes.

Half a year ago I was close to getting a Custom PRS Singlecut to one up my LP, but after demoing it, it just felt like I had a newer, nicer LP. Didn't feel like I was "advancing" so to speak in my guitar journey.

 

[menvafaan]

Interesting comments!

And oh, this actually happened to me once, when I was looking at a custom strat:

- So what do you play currently?
- I play Music Man.
- What? Do you play metal? Then why are you here looking at this strat?

(I have a Super Sport and a MM90 AL, and playing funk, rock and jazz)

I ended up ordering a Silo Spec.

 

[zombi]

It seems we've had this conversation before, but... From what I've seen and heard it's attributed mainly to people not being used to the way they look. The small headstock and slightly smaller bodies throw people off. They don't even take the chance to pick one up and play it because of their initial impression. I am quite the opposite. I like everything to be "right there" so the silo works out great for me. And I think ebmm's are sexy. It's all about personal choice, but most people like to stick to whatever their heroes or buddies play or tell them to play. I know we have some younger users on the board, at 28 I'm not that old either, but I've played for 15 years and it took several years for me to get used to the looks of them too. Now I think they are beautiful guitars, but when I was a kid, they looked too small. I think for a lot of us we grew tired of the standards and explored and found something else we liked. There will be others and more of them will join our ranks...

 

[Astrofreq]

I was at a Sam Ash and talking to this guitar player playing a strat. He was in his 30s as well and asked me what kind of guitar I played. I said Music Man and he asked if I was really technical and fast (like a shredder, but not using that word). I said not at all and asked why he asked that. He said the people endorsing are all shredders so to speak. Anyway, I thought it was an interesting perspective he had.

The point. People are unquestionably drawn to or away from a brand because of endorsers. I know I am.

 

[candid_x]

I'm not a brand loyal type, but I know what I like when I see/play/hear it. I had no idea until a Silo Special was in my hands what MM guitars are about. I had a few problems with the Strat landscape, which the Silo Special dealt with precisely. For me it's a no brainer.

For brand loyal types, it's the battle for the mind. Meaning, it's harder to convert someone with strong prior existing ties than someone open.

"Strat bondage" is a phenomena. And I say good on them for it! But what I question is, how long can they keep that mental real estate in guitar buyers, when they're so openly plagued by quality control inconsistencies (playing nice here)? Players get fed up with that eventually, and swim around less main stream waters.

I'd still get a Fender or Gib or whatever; cuz I'm not a brand loyal guy. But I only have two guitars, and they're both Silo Specials. I simply know what I like.

 

[dwells]

i always get "there to small looking" until they hear em and play then that goes out the window!!!