EBMM JP(7) Owners/To Shim or not to...

[Raz]

Well, here's the scoop. I've been pretty down lately, down to the point of not even playing my JP7. So I need you guys to help me. Currently I've got the action down to somewhere between 1/16" and 1/32" (depending on the humdity and whatnot). So that parts cool, well beyond cool. My problem is, and I know I'm not the cleanest player around, in fact I'm quite heavy handed, but I'm getting the most bothersome sounds being picked up from my pups! Even picking a single note, with some vibrato, the pups will pick up the lower strings vibrations. Trying to clean up the sound doesn't help either, as soon as my hand gently presses against the low B-E-A the pups amplify this effort. Now I realize there's some acceptable noise levels, I'm not all that green, however any movement that creates the tiniest of vibrations is picked up. Now I have two other guitars that have pups that I consider comparable, SH-8 Invaders (Duncans) and EMG 707's(active)...yet I don't get this from those, or any of my other guitars.

What I would like from you guys is a measurement from the pups to the strings (bottom) and for both pups. You don't need to fret and measure, just measure...please. I may have to shim the neck and increase the angle, if that's what the problem is...and I think that's what (or I am hoping) it is.

Looking at the pups themselves, I don't see a shim present, so lowering them is out of the question, and of course the action needs to stay AS IS!


Thanks!

 

[fogman]

Raz,

Sorry to hear you've been down on your playing. I've noticed that you haven't been posting too much lately. Hang in there. It's a natural cycle I'm sure.

I'm no guitar expert on the mechanics of guitars, so let me ask a dumb question that may make me look bad as opposed to you. Have you checked the battery?
I don't even know if the JP's have them also!?

 

[Raz]

Raz,

Sorry to hear you've been down on your playing. I've noticed that you haven't been posting too much lately. Hang in there. It's a natural cycle I'm sure.

I'm no guitar expert on the mechanics of guitars, so let me ask a dumb question that may make me look bad as opposed to you. Have you checked the battery?
I don't even know if the JP's have them also!?

No battery in my JP. For the most part, batteries are required for active pups, or singles that have that noise reducing feature. Now Piezo is another ball of wax!

 

[MikeVt]

Well, here's the scoop. I've been pretty down lately, down to the point of not even playing my JP7. So I need you guys to help me. Currently I've got the action down to somewhere between 1/16" and 1/32" (depending on the humdity and whatnot). So that parts cool, well beyond cool. My problem is, and I know I'm not the cleanest player around, in fact I'm quite heavy handed, but I'm getting the most bothersome sounds being picked up from my pups! Even picking a single note, with some vibrato, the pups will pick up the lower strings vibrations. Trying to clean up the sound doesn't help either, as soon as my hand gently presses against the low B-E-A the pups amplify this effort. Now I realize there's some acceptable noise levels, I'm not all that green, however any movement that creates the tiniest of vibrations is picked up. Now I have two other guitars that have pups that I consider comparable, SH-8 Invaders (Duncans) and EMG 707's(active)...yet I don't get this from those, or any of my other guitars.

What I would like from you guys is a measurement from the pups to the strings (bottom) and for both pups. You don't need to fret and measure, just measure...please. I may have to shim the neck and increase the angle, if that's what the problem is...and I think that's what (or I am hoping) it is.

Looking at the pups themselves, I don't see a shim present, so lowering them is out of the question, and of course the action needs to stay AS IS!


Thanks!

I'll measure mine for ya tonight Raz - unless somebody beats me to it...
Mike

 

[Raz]

I'll measure mine for ya tonight Raz - unless somebody beats me to it...
Mike

Thanks I appreciate it....

 

[MikeVt]

I'll measure mine for ya tonight Raz - unless somebody beats me to it...
Mike

Raz, you did know I was talking about my string height, right?

Here ya go - but remember, mine is a JP6. Do you see any reason why it wouldn't still apply?

Neck pickup: 11/64 Low E, 9/64 High E
Bridge pickup: 7/64 Low E, 6/64 High E

This is the distance from the top of the poles, to the bottom of the strings.

Mike

 

[Raz]

Raz, you did know I was talking about my string height, right?

Here ya go - but remember, mine is a JP6. Do you see any reason why it wouldn't still apply?

Neck pickup: 11/64 Low E, 9/64 High E
Bridge pickup: 7/64 Low E, 6/64 High E

This is the distance from the top of the poles, to the bottom of the strings.

Mike

Thanks bro, I'm gonna check it out right now...what's your action at now? Are you experiencing anything remotely similar to what I am going through (back in a flash)

 

[Raz]

Ha... man I'm almost sure this is my problem...1/16" low B bridge, 3/32" low B neck (there's no use checking the high E)...man I just checked my action and it's not even 1/32"...dang and there's no buzzing to be had...if I can only solve this PUP problem

BTW comparing your measurements, that's what the strings measure from the guitar body

Also if I take a straight edge and lay it on the frets, the frets are flush with the pole pieces on the bridge pup...

HELP!

 

[MikeVt]

Ha... man I'm almost sure this is my problem...1/16" low B bridge, 3/32" low B neck (there's no use checking the high E)...man I just checked my action and it's not even 1/32"...dang and there's no buzzing to be had...if I can only solve this PUP problem

BTW comparing your measurements, that's what the strings measure from the guitar body

My action is set at about 3/64 at the 12th. And yeah, having the strings that close to the pickups does sound a bit odd to me - but I'm not an expert. My other guitars are in the ballpark of my EBMM. I don't have the problem you describe.

Does your Tonelab have any kind of an input level meter? It would be interesting to see if it's pegging or how the levels compare to your other guitars. Jon, feel free to jump in here....we're just a couple of hacks goin at it....

Since you and I have been around the block on this action/setup discussion, how do you define buzzing? I can hit every note on my neck without any fret interference, but only if I pick lightly. I'm certainly not calling you a liar, but are you telling me you can pick as hard as you want, and the string never rattles against the frets, anywhere? I just can't imagine it.

Mike

 

[MikeVt]

Also if I take a straight edge and lay it on the frets, the frets are flush with the pole pieces on the bridge pup...

Ok - mine is not too far off there just by eyeballing it. If I were to lower my action via the saddles/bridge to below 1/32 at the 12th, I'm sure our bridge pup comparison would be MUCH closer.

I know you are happy with the action, but what kind of relief do you have? What if you lowered the action via the truss rod and raised it back up at the bridge?

Mike

 

[Raz]

My action is set at about 3/64 at the 12th. And yeah, having the strings that close to the pickups does sound a bit odd to me - but I'm not an expert. My other guitars are in the ballpark of my EBMM. I don't have the problem you describe.

Does your Tonelab have any kind of an input level meter? It would be interesting to see if it's pegging or how the levels compare to your other guitars. Jon, feel free to jump in here....we're just a couple of hacks goin at it....

Since you and I have been around the block on this action/setup discussion, how do you define buzzing? I can hit every note on my neck without any fret interference, but only if I pick lightly. I'm certainly not calling you a liar, but are you telling me you can pick as hard as you want, and the string never rattles against the frets, anywhere? I just can't imagine it.

Mike

I asked Jon about min. height pup to string and he said there isn't one...however since I am having this problem I thought perhaps I would compare with other JP owners...as for the buzzing, if there is any that I would have to find I would say the low B 20th fret on...but it's minimal, and if you pick moderately you can't hear it!

 

[Raz]

Ok - mine is not too far off there just by eyeballing it. If I were to lower my action via the saddles/bridge to below 1/32 at the 12th, I'm sure our bridge pup comparison would be MUCH closer.

I know you are happy with the action, but what kind of relief do you have? What if you lowered the action via the truss rod and raised it back up at the bridge?

Mike

I keep my relief minimal also, almost straight.

 

[MikeVt]

Ouch. I guess I'm out of suggestions. Given that I learned a bunch from you a while back, you're likely to know everything I know already!

If I come up with any other ideas, I'll pop back in.

I'm just going to go ponder how you get your action so low.

Mike

 

[Raz]

Ouch. I guess I'm out of suggestions. Given that I learned a bunch from you a while back, you're likely to know everything I know already!

If I come up with any other ideas, I'll pop back in.

I'm just going to go ponder how you get your action so low.

Mike

I take pride in my set ups (seriously thinking of doing it on the side for way less than the numskulls here in Ottawa do it for), however my knowledge of electronics needs improvement. I know that my Washburn, with the SH-8 Duncan Invader pups needs mega room cause the ceramic pieces are huge and I had to lower those babies right down. However there's no way to adjust the pups on the Pet.

Thanks for your help Mike. I want to be absolutely sure before I shim the neck. (I hate to do it to the PET!)

 

[OrangeChannel]

The Invader needs mega room since by design it's too hot....it sounds good if you crank it down lowwwwwww....

 

[jongitarz]

FWIW...I have done lots of work on lots of JP's guitars. All SUPER low, and nary a shim to be found.

 

[MikeVt]

Not a problem Raz. This stuff is really fun!

I also take pride in my setups now that I can do them. I get a real sense of accomplishment when I get it the way I want it - and it's cool to know I can readjust it at any time without having to take it to some shmo down the street. (Take note - Jon is NOT down the street ) Let's face it - a good mechanic is hard to find. Why would we take our guitars to just anyone?

Mike

 

[Raz]

FWIW...I have done lots of work on lots of JP's guitars. All SUPER low, and nary a shim to be found.

Again Jon, I'm not questioning your obvious knowledge and experience, I just wanted to know if that measurement I provided was acceptable, that's all. It's tough not playing for over a week, I just want to know why.
I can provide sound clips to give an idea of exactly what this sound is that I am speaking about. A simple note, and you'll hear a lower tone in the backround...

OrangeChannel The Invader needs mega room since by design it's too hot....it sounds good if you crank it down lowwwwwww...

Yeah I learned that pretty quick!

 

[jongitarz]

Raz..All I was saying was it has never been needed as far as my work on the JP model...I wasn't questioning or anything like that. I would love to hear a sound clip. It may help pinpoint the problem you are having. Again, I was just putting my.02 in.

 

[Big Poppa]

Raz

Pardon me but I just have to jump in. If you have a lead foot you dont have a hair trigger accelerator. If you have a slow golf swing dont use a stiff shaft. I think that you are so focused on setting up your guitar to the max but that isnt how you play. You should see how some really great players that have a slightly heavier touch set thier guitars up.

I am a bass player first and then a guitarist. I need to have the action and the string gauge a little higher than standard just a titch.

Set your guitar up for maximum performance for your paricular style and touch and you should be happy.

Jon How are the numbers he has. it seems radically low from fatory specs. Im kinda proud that we made a guitar that doesnt buzz when set up to this extreme.