Help! EBMM piezo- Anyone use one direct to a small PA for acoustic gigs?

[bsteff666]

Can anyone give me some insight & help me out? I have heard all of the raves about how good the piezo equipped Balls sound.

I tried to search around here on the forum...But usually...it seems to me that most of the applications I am reading about involve using multiple amps or using an amp in addition to a direct line to the PA or something like that.

I have been playing some acoustic gigs where we use a small powered 8 channel mixer head running two 15 inch speaker cabs. We've got two electric acoustic guitars plugged in...some vocal mics...a mic on a set of congas -- Just a small set up for playing in the corner of the bar.

My problem is that I am mainly the lead player & I tend to play a lot of bendy bluesy type stuff...and I am just not comfortable doing that on an acoustic guitar. I have a nice electric acoustic with cutaway...set up with light strings & an unwound 3rd string...but it just doesn't feel right to me & I just can't play on it the way I can play on my Axis.

So...with that type of set-up...If I had an Axis SS with piezo...would I get convincing acoustic sounds plugged right into the PA as I described?

Would I need something else like a direct box to make it work?

Any insight would be appreciated...and forgive me...I am kind of technologically challenged in this area. The whole acoustic type thing is kind of new to me. I am used to just always plugging an Axis or EVH into a cranked tube amp.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Jimmyb]

I only ever use my piezo straight to a PA, as I'm too poor to afford an acoustic amp, not like a certain Welsh lord of the manor!

It works really well, full-range is what you're after, which is why they're not the best when plugged into a regular guitar amp, which is where a PA is great.

You might find you need an isolation transformer, depending on the feed (electrical) to the PA. If it's from the same circuit you should be ok, but to make extra sure, a good transformer DI will be well worth the small investment.

 

[Spudmurphy]

Hi "Welsh Lord of the Manor" here.

You will get very good results going via a DI box to your PA. It's a very popular way of doing it.

As you've searched on the forum and I am always attracted to Piezo threads you will probably have seen that I use a dedicated acoustic amp, which I sometimes DI into the PA.

I use an AER acoustic amp which when I bought it, was £250 cheaper than todays price. You can also plug a Mike in at the same time so for small intimate venues the AER is all I need. The best way to describe it is ... like a HI FI amp which makes the Piezo come to life.

So back to your question ... Yes DI'd into a PA will be fine.

Edit
The next decision to make is whether to run two leads from your guitar or one stereo lead into a splitter box.

There is a splitter for sale on the "For Sale" thread. I don't think it would be too expensive to buy or too expensive to post.
...... get it!!!

 

[Jimmyb]

All hail Lord Spud!

The splitter is a good option, again, might be worth considering an isolation transformer just to keep things clean.

 

[Lou]

I've been doing acoustic gigs with my JP for many years now. I do have another guitarist in the band so I do also use the electric side of it. BUT, the piezo goes staight into the PA. I only have some reverb on the guitar. I get complements all the time from folks in the crowd on the tone - even musicians. You can't beat it. I find it consitantly sounds better than a normal acoustic with piezo. I also own an ovation that I rarely use for acoustic gigs.

 

[bsteff666]

Thanks guys. Lots of helpful info. I appreciate it.

Now I'm thinking of the options.

So...if I had that splitter...Could I run a line to the PA for my main acoustic sound...and another to a little amp like a Fender Champ or something...and bring that amp in to the mix when I want an edgier sound...like for a lead solo boost?

Would that work?

 

[guitfiddle]

So...if I had that splitter...Could I run a line to the PA for my main acoustic sound...and another to a little amp like a Fender Champ or something...and bring that amp in to the mix when I want an edgier sound...like for a lead solo boost?

Would that work?

Yes, it would work great. I've done a bunch of gigs set up just like that (well, I use a blackface Vibro Champ, but that's not much different). Works perfectly.

 

[bsteff666]

OK...This is sounding like a great plan.

guitfiddle-- How do you dial your Vibrochamp into the mix?

Are you able to do that with the knobs on the guitar---just by turning up the volume control for the humbuckers?

I don't even know much about the piezo equipped guitars yet...but I am certainly liking what I am hearing so far.

 

[Spudmurphy]

I control my piezo in a number of different ways:-
1. On my Albert Lee it has a mag volume a mag tone and a Piezo volume, so when I just use the basic splitter like the one I told you about above, I control the piezo/ mag mix via the volume pots on the guitar.

2. On my JP 6 that also has the pots like the Albert but also has a toggle switch on the top horn.
Up position Piezo. middle position piezo and mag, down position mags only.

3. Another way I split the signal is to use an EB 6165 stereo pedal. This splits the stereo lead out from the guitar into my two amps. The pedal then either swells the volume of the two amps in tandem or it can pan between the two.

 

[Jimmyb]

^What he said

Using a TRS (Tip, Ring, Sleeve) cable from the output of your guitar basically sends both of the signals to the splitter box, where a 3 pole jack socket acts as the splitter, sending shield and tip to one output jack and shield and ring to another.

Spud's got some pic's somewhere of one he made. They're dead easy to knock up, or like he said, there's an ebmm one for sale.

 

[Spudmurphy]

^What he said

Using a TRS (Tip, Ring, Sleeve) cable from the output of your guitar basically sends both of the signals to the splitter box, where a 3 pole jack socket acts as the splitter, sending shield and tip to one output jack and shield and ring to another.

Spud's got some pic's somewhere of one he made. They're dead easy to knock up, or like he said, there's an ebmm one for sale.

If you can't find it I'll dig the thread out when I get home tomorrow from London.
However, the cost of the parts wouldn't be much different to buying that one on the For sale thread.
I'd get that - you could always sell it on, as they are not available outside the USA.

edit - the seller is French Kiss

 

[Lou]

I typically run a stereo cable from my JP into a stereo A/B/Y footswitch made by Startouch Pedals. This for me is the most flexible way to run it. I leave the guitar switch in the both position all the time and then I use the footswitch to either swich between mags/piezo or blend. It's much easier than trying to hit the switch and strum/solo. I worked with Tony at Startouch to design this and have his prototype that he made for me. Still working after 6+ years and built ike a tank. Here's a link: startouchpedals: Startouch:Stereo AB+Y Pedal System

I also have an EBMM splitter box that I use if I don't need to do fancy switching while playing.

 

[bsteff666]

Again...thank you all for the info. I think I know what I want to try now.

I am going to look at getting an Axis Sport/Super Sport with piezo...and the splitter box. I will run into the PA for my main acoustic sound & I will use the volumes right on the guitar to blend in a small amp for grittier electric sounds when I want them.

 

[Spudmurphy]

As promised here's some links

http://www.ernieball.com/forums/music-man-guitars/27209-alberts-w-piezos-3.html

another cool splitter here
http://www.ernieball.com/forums/music-man-guitars/35849-my-own-diy-splitter-box.html

6165 pedal
http://www.ernieball.com/forums/mus...hen-panning-stereo-stereo-out.html#post773344

 

[bsteff666]

More great info. Thanks Spudmurphy.

I scored a guitar on Ebay last night. It is one of the earlier Axis Sports with piezo. (I don't think I've ever seen a Sport with the piezo.) A splitter box & cable is included in the auction. The case is not original though.
Here is a link.
eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices

Seemed like a great way to get started.

 

[Spudmurphy]

More great info. Thanks Spudmurphy.

I scored a guitar on Ebay last night. It is one of the earlier Axis Sports with piezo. (I don't think I've ever seen a Sport with the piezo.) A splitter box & cable is included in the auction. The case is not original though.
Here is a link.
eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices

Seemed like a great way to get started.

Wow - nice score and you got the splitter with it too.

Glad to have been of help. Please see if you can at least try it through an acoustic amp and see what you think.

Once again nice guitar - real classic looking.