Ebony and the guitar center chat

[mesavox]

I was watching the guitar center chat with Big Pappa and Steve Morse.. BP is talking about woods and the 25th, and it got me wondering...

Is the resent and frequent use of Ebony on many of the JPs a product of that search for woods to help the guitar resonate better, and keep costs from going through the roof?

I know that Ebony used to be a bit of a premium wood, but we all know those things change with availability, and it's more than a little bit conceivable that Ebony is a lot less rare these days than say, 20 years ago.

Or, is it just something that JP discovered that he really likes these days? Jacob and I were discussing how the increase in mids of the BFR may have led to JP thinking the Dsonic was overkill on the mids, thus leading to the Crunchlab... but, perhaps the Ebony is part of that balancing quest...

Which makes me wonder.. wouldn't it be kind of funny if he's trying to get the BFRs to sound like they are made of basswood and maple again? LOL

It's kind of weird how tone works.. particularly where album production is concerned... I don't really like the Black Clouds album tones at all, but I thought his tone live with the Crunchlab through the MKV was fantastic. I think it kind of goes to show how subtle things can be, and how fickle our own ears can be sometimes.

 

[Hendog]

I was watching the guitar center chat with Big Pappa and Steve Morse.. BP is talking about woods and the 25th, and it got me wondering...

Is the resent and frequent use of Ebony on many of the JPs a product of that search for woods to help the guitar resonate better, and keep costs from going through the roof?

I know that Ebony used to be a bit of a premium wood, but we all know those things change with availability, and it's more than a little bit conceivable that Ebony is a lot less rare these days than say, 20 years ago.

Or, is it just something that JP discovered that he really likes these days? Jacob and I were discussing how the increase in mids of the BFR may have led to JP thinking the Dsonic was overkill on the mids, thus leading to the Crunchlab... but, perhaps the Ebony is part of that balancing quest...

Which makes me wonder.. wouldn't it be kind of funny if he's trying to get the BFRs to sound like they are made of basswood and maple again? LOL

It's kind of weird how tone works.. particularly where album production is concerned... I don't really like the Black Clouds album tones at all, but I thought his tone live with the Crunchlab through the MKV was fantastic. I think it kind of goes to show how subtle things can be, and how fickle our own ears can be sometimes.

That is a thought provoking topic however.

 

[beej]

From what I gather on these threads, it just sounds like the perfect guitar is a moving target. They keep trying things on various guitars, and when JP likes something they'll mess around with the specs until it clicks.

I have no idea, but I'm guessing it's the same way with the amps/rig. And change one thing, you start messing around with pickups and the like. Funny how that is.

On the other end of the scale, you've got Morse, who is still playing the hell out of his #1 and trying to get the exact nuances of that particular guitar on other models.

I'm impressed as hell either way. Most times I pick up my guitars and think they sound fine, regardless of what I do to them. The nuances are often lost on me

 

[Jack FFR1846]

I'm still amazed that Steve Morse uses a poplar body guitar. With all the fancy woods available, it's the type of wood that I've heard people put down as the stuff cheaper guitars are made from. He certainly makes it work and Steve is very technical. I'm a EE and listening to him talk about his guitars makes me think he could have done just fine in engineering school.

Personally, I really like the feel of Ebony. I figured John would like it because it is so dark. Goes well with his style. Like color dark....not sound dark. Do I make any sense? Don't answer that....

 

[Big Poppa]

Ebony costs more and John likes it at this moment

 

[BrosphsMystic80]

I was watching the guitar center chat with Big Pappa and Steve Morse.. BP is talking about woods and the 25th, and it got me wondering...

Is the resent and frequent use of Ebony on many of the JPs a product of that search for woods to help the guitar resonate better, and keep costs from going through the roof?

I know that Ebony used to be a bit of a premium wood, but we all know those things change with availability, and it's more than a little bit conceivable that Ebony is a lot less rare these days than say, 20 years ago.

Or, is it just something that JP discovered that he really likes these days? Jacob and I were discussing how the increase in mids of the BFR may have led to JP thinking the Dsonic was overkill on the mids, thus leading to the Crunchlab... but, perhaps the Ebony is part of that balancing quest...

Which makes me wonder.. wouldn't it be kind of funny if he's trying to get the BFRs to sound like they are made of basswood and maple again? LOL

It's kind of weird how tone works.. particularly where album production is concerned... I don't really like the Black Clouds album tones at all, but I thought his tone live with the Crunchlab through the MKV was fantastic. I think it kind of goes to show how subtle things can be, and how fickle our own ears can be sometimes.

Im with you here, in some regards...IMHO I just feel there is something missing from his tone compared to when he was using the Road King.

But JP is happy with his tone and BCSL is an amazing record...

 

[straycat113]

Well in this day and age I would not trust anyones tone on a recording with what someone can do with Pro Tools or the likes. You said you saw him live and his tone was killer, if you are trying to emulate his tone go with what gear he was using live or get as close as you can, as that is his pure tone and not studio magic. To many guys stress over nailing certain players tones, and if you plugged into JPs rig you would still sound like you, though if you know his music well enough or play in a cover band you may sound close. I admit it is fun to try and nail someone's sound, but you hit an age where nothing compares to finding your own tone. This is especially important for younger guys, find your own voice.

 

[TheShreddinHand]

Well in this day and age I would not trust anyones tone on a recording with what someone can do with Pro Tools or the likes. You said you saw him live and his tone was killer, if you are trying to emulate his tone go with what gear he was using live or get as close as you can, as that is his pure tone and not studio magic. To many guys stress over nailing certain players tones, and if you plugged into JPs rig you would still sound like you, though if you know his music well enough or play in a cover band you may sound close. I admit it is fun to try and nail someone's sound, but you hit an age where nothing compares to finding your own tone. This is especially important for younger guys, find your own voice.

+ 1, good post.

-Eric

 

[hbucker]

Totally agree.

Guitar forums are littered with, "What settings to I use to get Guitar Player's tone on album X" and I don't think that's a terribly fuitful goal to have given all of the variables that went into that tone:

-Guitar, effects, amp, cables and settings for all of these.
-Player talent
-How was the speaker mic'd?
-What mic was used?
-How many mics were used?
-Was it one take or layered?
-Studio room used.
-Volume played.
-what was it recorded on?
-Board settings.
-Were there any enhancements or e.q.ing after the track was recorded?
-Engineer and their individual tastes.
-Whoever mixed it and their tastes.
-The stereo you're listening to it on is probably not studio reference quality.
-Then you want to filter all of this back through your gear and talent, none of which probably match the original artists completely.

Then once you finally achieve this perfect match (which isn't really possible IMO). You go out and play this tone with your band and are amazed that it doesn't sound right when mixed with the other instruments. So in essence you have to start over.

Getting close and putting your own stank on it is the best you can hope for and in reality is even better than copying the original perfectly, IMO of course...

 

[tommydude]

Ebony costs more and John likes it at this moment

His short statement really says A LOT........

There have been some really great designs recently that (I believe) are really setting a newer standard for Quality/Design/Tone. It is awesome to know that the Artist and Guitar Maker are working closely together to put out a product that reaches (or surpasses) expectations. These new ideas help us all in the long run.

As for the recorded tone VS. live tone, there are way too many variables.

We all understand the cost factor. But...let's say you found that one guitar that gave you the Tone you wanted. Wouldn't it be worth the money?