Effects Boards/Rack Mount Effects

[YtseJam92]

If it's not too much to ask, could someone explain to me or post a link that explains everything you need to know about pedal boards, rack mount effects and how they are all suppose to be set up? I haven't had a lot of expierence with these and I'm still a little bit confused on how the whole looping proccess works; I mean I get a simple two cable loop and straight into the input of the amp but it's the routing everything back into the effects loop and having 4 differnt cables going in different places. I know it's an odd question for me to be asking but I figured I had to learn sometime and thought this might be an okay place to ask since there are some crazy tech guys on this forum, and if someone could make it easy that would be awesome.

Any help/advice will help. Thanks!

 

[bkrumme]

If it's not too much to ask, could someone explain to me or post a link that explains everything you need to know about pedal boards, rack mount effects and how they are all suppose to be set up? I haven't had a lot of expierence with these and I'm still a little bit confused on how the whole looping proccess works; I mean I get a simple two cable loop and straight into the input of the amp but it's the routing everything back into the effects loop and having 4 differnt cables going in different places. I know it's an odd question for me to be asking but I figured I had to learn sometime and thought this might be an okay place to ask since there are some crazy tech guys on this forum, and if someone could make it easy that would be awesome.

Any help/advice will help. Thanks!

Dude, you're basically asking for a novel to be written here. There are TONS of different ways to do it and they all could be considered the right way.

If you're having trouble with something in particular, shoot me a PM. Here's a basic rundown of a simple rig using the FX loop and analog/digital stompboxes. I'll start at the front of the signal chain and go all the way to the end. This is just a GUIDELINE. Do what you think sounds best.

1. Guitar
2. Volume pedal (if you have one)- if a passive pedal like EBJR 250k, put it before everything else. If active, it can go after fx pedals or in the loop if you want.
3. compression, eq, OD/Distortion, other non-modulating effects
4. Preamp - if this is an amplifier head, then plug into the input of your amp
5. Modulating effects (phaser, flanger, chorus, delay, etc.) - This is the FX loop of your amplifier, so the FX send would go to the first pedal, you would chain the pedals together, and the output of the last pedal would go to the FX return
6. Power Amp - if this is an amplifier head, then the input of the power amp is the FX return.
7. Speaker cabinet

Whatever you do, don't set the volume or output of your pedals to max. This WILL overload your amp and cause really bad, really expensive damage. You might also hear some noise with lots of pedals. It's probably a small noise from your guitar or a noisy piece of gear being amplified by one of the FX pedals. You can troubleshoot this, but it's a pretty lengthy procedure. There are ways to get rid of it, and not neccessarily a noise gate.

Any questions, just let me know. The most important thing is to be open minded about how you route your effects. There isn't one "right" way. The right way is what sounds best to you...

 

[bkrumme]

As a follow up, I should have read your post a couple of times before I answered. You're asking more about rack effects than stomp boxes. You said you understand stomp boxes.

As far as rack effects go, it really depends on what you're using. For instance, I use a G-System and nothing else. All of my effects are from one unit which has a front and back end DSP. So some of the FX go before the preamp, and some go in the FX loop.

There are other guys who use a mixture of stomp boxes and rack effects. For instance, JP uses multiple heads, multiple rack FX, and a few stomp boxes. All of it is controlled via MIDI and he has the capability to use just about anything in his rig with anything else. It's quite a masterpiece of a guitar rig and I'd love to dig into something like that.

If you're only using one amplifier, then you've got a pretty easy job. Use the guideline I posted before and the concepts are the same. Levels are very important. Noise is always a nuisance. If you're looking for a specific utility piece, such as a switch of some kind, A/B/Y, etc. there are tons of choices.

 

[colinboy]

yeah this is a pretty good thread to start and id be interested in hearing your view oh experienced knuckleheads out there.
Im on building a proper rig in the next few years and will be counting on ye guys for help.

 

[bkrumme]

yeah this is a pretty good thread to start and id be interested in hearing your view oh experienced knuckleheads out there.
Im on building a proper rig in the next few years and will be counting on ye guys for help.

See, that's just what I mean when I say this is a guideline. A "proper" rig is just what you make of it.

A few key things to keep in mind:

1. line level vs. instrument level - some equipment runs at -10, others at +4. if you have something that doesn't match, there are solutions.
2. balanced cables where neccessary.
3. signal to noise ratio - the higher the ratio of signal to noise, the quieter the equipment will be. There are ways to raise this ratio and quiet the rig down.

And there's more, but these few things will help eliminate some of the more common issues that arise.

 

[ScoobySteve]

I used to be into the whole "massive" pedal board rig. But once it came down to it having to use an A/B switch and using different cables to send modulation and delay through the loop and dist/od before the amp became a solid mess and a pain.

But basically in a pedal board situation, you want all your fuzz, distortion, overdrive, tuner etc before the amp and all modulation, chorus, wah, compression etc in the FX loop, if your amplifier has one.

I simplified the mess with a Nova System, life has been much simpler since, since I run it through the FX loop and thats that.

 

[bkrumme]

I simplified the mess with a Nova System, life has been much simpler since, since I run it through the FX loop and thats that.

The Nova System is a really cool piece of gear. You can't really use the overdrive or distortion with it in the FX loop, though. I guess you get all of that from your amp or a pedal before your amp?

 

[ScoobySteve]

The Nova System is a really cool piece of gear. You can't really use the overdrive or distortion with it in the FX loop, though. I guess you get all of that from your amp or a pedal before your amp?

Yeah, the Nova System is perfect for me. When I travel I'm required to use a lot of the place's amplifiers when I get there, some not having FX loops, in that case I can put it before the amp and still get the modulation effects.

At home with my rig, I put it in the FX loop and use a TB modded TS808 OD Pedal for overdrive sounds and I'm set.

Could not be happier with T.C. Electronic Gear.

 

[colinboy]

See, that's just what I mean when I say this is a guideline. A "proper" rig is just what you make of it.

A few key things to keep in mind:

1. line level vs. instrument level - some equipment runs at -10, others at +4. if you have something that doesn't match, there are solutions.
2. balanced cables where neccessary.
3. signal to noise ratio - the higher the ratio of signal to noise, the quieter the equipment will be. There are ways to raise this ratio and quiet the rig down.

And there's more, but these few things will help eliminate some of the more common issues that arise.

Its all this great information that your talking about that i wouldnt have a clue about with regards signal to noise ratios and balanced cables!

 

[bkrumme]

Its all this great information that your talking about that i wouldnt have a clue about with regards signal to noise ratios and balanced cables!

Balanced cables will only be helpful if you have components that use balanced connections. If you have a mixture, balanced cables are still likely to help, depending on the gear you're using. This is especially true for long cable runs. Check out this link for more info: Balanced audio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As far as signal to noise ratio goes, there are tons of ways to lower what we call the "noise floor." One of those ways is by introducing shielding. For example, EBMM guitars have a graphite-acrylic resin coating in the body cavity. This adds a layer of shielding against external noise and effectively reduces the noise in my guitar rig because the guitars' susceptibility to noise is reduced. Effectively, I can turn up the volume and hear less noise. This is a very simple example. You could add a buffer in the right place (depends on where the noise is coming from) which would do this as well. Digital effects typically have an extremely high signal to noise ratio, so they are very quiet to begin with.

Basically, there are tons of factors that go into building a rig. Each rig is different. Likewise, the problems you may or may not face will be different. It all depends on the amp(s), effects, guitars, pickups, cables, switches, buffers, mixers, etc. you choose to use in your rig. Each one will come with its own characteristics that may either help or hinder the sound.

A common problem with amplifier heads is the FX loop. Many of the series effects loops in newer amplifiers aren't truly serial. For instance, I have a Bogner Uberschall. Bogner Amplification calls the loop a "series" FX loop, however there is a variable FX level on the loop which can also act as a boost if you want to use it that way. If I were to take all of the FX out of my loop and turn on the FX loop with nothing there, I would still hear the signal. It's not loud, but it's there. This isn't "series" since without anything in a series loop you should hear NOTHING.

Parallel loops exploit this behavior and use it as a feature. You can mix the wet and dry signals to get some pretty cool effects. This can cause issues with the FX in your loop, though. I've heard some serious phase cancellation with parallel loops that weren't configured right...

When you start building your rig, take into consideration what you're trying to accomplish and what you need to achieve that accomplishment. Less is usually better when it comes to cable, attenuation, amplification, etc. Basically, the less number of times you modify the signal level or use a cable to transmit it, the better. Every stomp box or effect you put in the chain will do one or the other and typically add at least one cable connection. Try to keep cable runs as short as possible (rack is good for this).

I would start with an amplifier and build from there. Take a fundamental tone and build on it.

 

[ShaneV]

Yeah, the Nova System is perfect for me. When I travel I'm required to use a lot of the place's amplifiers when I get there, some not having FX loops, in that case I can put it before the amp and still get the modulation effects.

At home with my rig, I put it in the FX loop and use a TB modded TS808 OD Pedal for overdrive sounds and I'm set.

Could not be happier with T.C. Electronic Gear.

TC makes some great stuff, I just really wish they made the first G major more sturdy, I had two in a row break within 10 minutes of coming out of the box, then gave up. I'm hoping the G Major 2 is sturdy.

 

[YtseJam92]

Thanks a lot for all the help. I'm still not an expert by any means though lol.

So can you tell me how I would want to set this FX loop up with these pedals?

Boss Tuner
MXR Phaser
Boss Flanger
Boss Chorus
Delay 2x
Wah

So which ones would I plug the the input, effects send and return cables into?

Ok, so while im already on a role with looking like a tech noob, I can't really dig any deeper. Can someone please explain the difference between mono and stereo and which to use. I have a super chorus and it has the option (for an output) of "Output B" or "Output A (Mono)" which would I want to use?

 

[ScoobySteve]

TC makes some great stuff, I just really wish they made the first G major more sturdy, I had two in a row break within 10 minutes of coming out of the box, then gave up. I'm hoping the G Major 2 is sturdy.

YES they had serious problems with that. Luckily my G Major was absolutely fine. The reliability is what led me to get the Nova System.

Ask BK, the G System is nuts. Literally, as sturdy as a tank. There's a video psoted here of it getting run over by a tank and still functioning.

 

[zombi]

You use mono if running into a single amp/cab. If running two amps/cabs you can do stereo. Some cabs allow stereo. Basically, all stereo does is make the effect cross the two sets of speakers, if you don't use it thus far, I wouldn't worry about it. Just use the mono out. If you really want to have fun, you can use a midi select switcher and rackmount your pedal board... but thats a whole different issue. If you do this, all pedals are left on and you can store settings in banks that are footswitchable. So instead of tap dancing across the pedal board, you hit one button. Good Luck.

 

[ScoobySteve]

Thanks a lot for all the help. I'm still not an expert by any means though lol.

So can you tell me how I would want to set this FX loop up with these pedals?

Boss Tuner
MXR Phaser
Boss Flanger
Boss Chorus
Delay 2x
Wah

First off, is the question of the wah. Some people vehemently insist that the wah was designed to be before the amp and therefore should stay OUT of the loop. Other purists insist that it should go in the FX loop cause it sounds better. ANyways, here's my suggestions.

Guitar --> Tuner --> AMP

Phaser, Flange, Chorus, Wah, Delay, into the FX loop.

No distortion/overdrives?

 

[rickjohns]

Not trying to pick a fight here guys, but modulation isn't necessary always best in the loop. I use it before the amp, and get some wicked tones and effects this way. But I like it crazy. I've never found a delay I liked in front of the amp, unless you are really looking for something "out there" sounding.
Here is my board, and the pedals I use in order:

Crybaby Classic
Fulltone Fat Boost (always on, it makes my Axis have some tasty tone)
Digitech Whammy 4
Digitech Tube Overdrive (the new "hardwire series, very versatlie)
Peterson Strobostomp ( I only have it here to distribute power, and it was the only place I could fit it in, if I had my choice it would be last, due to the fact it mutes the signal when I tune, or I can quiet any noise if I have multiple pedals on with alot of gain)
Eventide Modfactor (wicked midi controlled multi-effects modulation pedal, 40 presets)
Amp In (Right now a Peavey ValveKing, my Marshall is in the shop getting fixed, this was $300 used and it actually sounds great)
Effects loop out
Eventide Timefactor (wicked delay, midi controlled, 40 presets)
Back to Amp Effects loop in

I love this setup, and it's all controlled with a Behringer FCB1010 midi controller. I can change patches on both Eventides, the Whammy, and Switch amp channel all with one button for presets.

While not your everyday way to setup your pedals, it works for me, and I have tried all of the combinations I could think of, and this sounded best. The Modfactor is too pronounced in the effects loop, I also love how the flanger and phaser sounds with Distortion over it. Think of Van Halen 1 and Fairwarning effects sounds). My suggestion is to try 'em in every combination and every order you can think of. Eventually you will figure out what works best for you. And you might come up with some wicked sounds that spur some creativity in the process. Have fun with it, and don't be afraid, you won't hurt anything.

 

[YtseJam92]

Could someone pleaseee tell me the order I should put my effects in and what cable to go where? I want to play tonight...

 

[rickjohns]

Try this:
Guitar
Tuner
Wah
Phaser
Flanger
Amp
Chorus
Delay
Back to the amp

That is what I would do. Or try the phaser and flanger after the chorus in the loop before the delay. Now go play dude!

 

[ShaneV]

Try this:
Guitar
Tuner
Wah
Phaser
Flanger
Amp
Chorus
Delay
Back to the amp

That is what I would do. Or try the phaser and flanger after the chorus in the loop before the delay. Now go play dude!

That's what I'd do as well, but I'm also a fan of the modulation into amp VH tones.

 

[Volt]

Recently I have become a believer in amplifiers that have effects loops. I was having issues with a reverb pedal until I put it in my amp's effects loop. Now it works perfectly.
The main effect that I use is the amp's natural overdrive. I add a bit of reverb in the effects loop, mic it, and send it to another amp that adds a little delay to it, and that's my main set up. I also have wah wah and tremolo pedals that I almost never use.
That's my rig.