Effects Boards/Rack Mount Effects

[rickjohns]

I wish I could get away with so little effects, but the covers and even the originals I play call for all the crazy sounds. I've never had luck with reverb in front of the amp either, mainly because the over drive amplifies the crap out of the reverb trails. I wish i had my two amps I would try the mic into another amp with delay. That sounds like it could be cool. One thing I am dying to try is to run my rig in complete stereo, with two amps. The eventide pedals I have are both stereo, so I could run the left and right outs of the modfactor into both amps input, use each amps different preamp overdrive tones, then back out of each amps effects loops into the left and right input of the timefactor, then back to each amps effects return. My behringer midi floor board has two programmable relay switched 1/4" jacks that can switch the channels. I could get that thick sound you get from two guitar players onstage with just myself. Hopefully my Marshall comes back from the shop soon.

 

[bkrumme]

Could someone pleaseee tell me the order I should put my effects in and what cable to go where? I want to play tonight...

Experiment. Put them where it sounds best to you.

 

[bkrumme]

Let's keep this one going.

I'd like to see less of the "where do the effects go" and more "this is what happens when I put it here"

Like I said so early in the post, it's all a matter of personal preference. The only "right or wrong" you could experience is setting levels, impedance mismatch, electronic no-nos basically. Other than that, your rig is your own and you make of it what you want.

 

[bkrumme]

But basically in a pedal board situation, you want all your fuzz, distortion, overdrive, tuner etc before the amp and all modulation, chorus, wah, compression etc in the FX loop, if your amplifier has one.

I'd like to expand on this a bit. The reason we typically put overdrive, distortion, boost, tuner, etc. before the amp is because they all affect the level of the signal from a gain perspective, or they are a utility (tuner) which can mute the signal.

Think of it this way: The input of an amplifier is the preamp. This is where the initial tone shaping happens when you plug the guitar into your amplifier. From the preamp, the signal goes to the FX loop if you use it and then to the power amp. Since an overdrive does EXACTLY what it is called, if you put it in the FX loop you run the very serious risk of blowing up your power amp. Since some of us play uber expensive tube amps, we don't want to do this. It would essentially be a waste of money.

Modulation effects don't have to go in the FX loop, this is just where they are typically used. The reason is because we usually want to modulate the sound coming out of the preamp. For instance, we use a delay in the FX loop because we want the delay to repeat the EXACT tone coming from the preamp. If we put the delay before the preamp, it will repeat the dry signal of the guitar (unless we're using an overdrive pedal). This isn't always desirable. The same goes for chorus, flanger, phaser, etc. Then you have the added capability to have "modulated delays" where each repeat of the delay will have a flanger, phaser, chorus, etc. on it. It all really depends on the sound you're going for.

I like to delay the overdriven signal coming from my preamp and then have those delays modulated. For that, I have delay before other modulated effects in the FX loop. I don't use an overdrive pedal at all (Bogner Uberschall has way too much gain to need one) so I don't worry about that.

 

[YtseJam92]

Ok, so when I put the effects in that order suggested, everything works except I have a pretty a fuzz sound going on. Ideas on how to make it go away?

 

[TonyEVH5150]

I've always done this:

Guitar> Tuner> Wah> OD/Distortion> Flanger> Phaser> Amp

Into effects loop:
Delay
Chorus
Reverb
(any delay/time related effects)

I play around with the overdrive/distortion placement, at least in terms of its spot before or after the wah. I've also heard of some folks using a volume pedal for the effects loop to trim the delay in or out of the signal.

My only suggestion for solving the fuzz is to start with the guitar plugged into the amp, and then slowly add one pedal at a time. There's a myriad of reasons that static or 60 cycle hum can get introduced to a signal path. A process of elimination can narrow it down to a particular pedal or even a bad cable.

 

[ShaneV]

Ok, so when I put the effects in that order suggested, everything works except I have a pretty a fuzz sound going on. Ideas on how to make it go away?

If you're using any effects that have an AC cord, they may be introducing ground loop hum (remove them from the chain and see if it goes away). Also, if you're powering your pedals with a standard Boss type power supply and running effects in front of the amp and in the loop off of it (via a daisy chain or a product like the Visual Sound 1 spot) it will hum, sometimes two particular pedals running off of the same supply will also cause hum. Going to batteries or an isolated power supply like the Voodoo Laps pedal power or BBE supa charger, etc. will alleviate the problem. Try running everything off of batteries and see if it still hums, if that stops it start narrowing down the problem child of the chain that's not playing well with others when powered from a supply.

 

[bkrumme]

If you're using any effects that have an AC cord, they may be introducing ground loop hum (remove them from the chain and see if it goes away). Also, if you're powering your pedals with a standard Boss type power supply and running effects in front of the amp and in the loop off of it (via a daisy chain or a product like the Visual Sound 1 spot) it will hum, sometimes two particular pedals running off of the same supply will also cause hum. Going to batteries or an isolated power supply like the Voodoo Laps pedal power or BBE supa charger, etc. will alleviate the problem. Try running everything off of batteries and see if it still hums, if that stops it start narrowing down the problem child of the chain that's not playing well with others when powered from a supply.

This is good advice. I would add that there's a possibility that noise is getting introduced somewhere in the chain (not 60 cycle hum like the quoted suggests) and you have a pedal which is amplifying that noise. This could be caused by a pedal OR by a cable which isn't shielded properly. Monster "Rock" cables are NOTORIOUS for being noisy. If you're using them, I would suggest using something else...

The faster approach would be to start with nothing in your signal chain and then add to it one piece at a time, testing for noise and hum with each change.

Start with the FX loop in this situation. Add the piece that goes in the end of the chain first, adjust level so the relative volume is the same with the effect on or off, then see if there is hum or buzz. If not, move on to the next piece and add it, etc. Continue this process until you find what is introducing or amplifying the noise.

If you do come across a piece that is adding hum, you can try a couple things.

1. Put a buffer after the piece that introduces noise. This should take out any 60Hz hum without having to lift the ground. This will only work if the noise is actually produced by that piece. If it is just amplifying the noise, you may hear a difference, but it's likely it won't make much of one.
2. Use a product like the EbTech HumX on the power supply of that piece. If the same power supply is used for multiple pedals, this will just be more advantageous.
3. Get a good, filtering power strip or power conditioner (Monster Power, Furman, Juice Goose, etc). Make sure it FILTERS the power as well as conditioning and surge protection.

 

[Hendog]

Great thread!

 

[Hendog]

How about eliminating all the noise AND mess and just getting a multi effects pedal? Does no one make one that sounds good?

Like this: http://guitars.musiciansfriend.com/product/Line-6-M13-Guitar-Multi-Effects-Pedal?sku=482675

 

[Jerrick]

How about eliminating all the noise AND mess and just getting a multi effects pedal? Does no one make one that sounds good?

Like this: Buy Line 6 M13 Stompbox Modeler Guitar Multi Effects Pedal | Floor Guitar Effects | Musician's Friend

Thats what I basically use, except mines not a pedalboard design. Very old, and surprisingly good, its the Digitech rp80. When I first got it, it was all factory presets, but once I got into a band, I sat with it for hours getting the perfect tone. Then copying that setting throughout the pedal, but adding one thing more every now and then.

That way I have my mine tone, but can select over once and have my main tone with the wah pedal activated. Now I can switch back or forward and be back on my original tone. Or forward again to activate another small effect.

It took some work to set everything up that I can easily click to it, and that takes some memorization, almost choreographing for each song, but it works, and sounds amazing.

Im looking at the Digitech rp1000. The pedal board will make it a lot easier to just click on and off the few effects I use.

 

[YtseJam92]

We should make this a sticky thread. I think this could be useful for anyone who might have questions on their setups.

 

[bkrumme]

How about eliminating all the noise AND mess and just getting a multi effects pedal? Does no one make one that sounds good?

Like this: Buy Line 6 M13 Stompbox Modeler Guitar Multi Effects Pedal | Floor Guitar Effects | Musician's Friend

Even that won't eliminate all of the noise and issues. Believe me. I use the TC Electronic G-System and still had issues when integrating it into my amp. It's to be expected with ANY FX setup you have. Also, some amps are just plain noisy...so the issue may not be in the FX either.

Every amp is different, and there will be challenges with every one of them. If you find one that's perfect, let me know...

 

[bkrumme]

The only things I run in my loop is delay, reverb and a boost (or volume pedal).

I like all of my other effects (phaser, flanger and octaver) out front. I don't use any compression, wah or overdrive pedals now, but when I did, they would also go out front.

When placing stuff in the loop, you also have to consider if it's a serial or parallel loop.

This is a very good point. Modulating effects in a parallel loop will almost definitely cause phase cancellations.

 

[YtseJam92]

Best case solution is: Don't use/have any effects and run your guitar straight into your amp. Then you wont have the buzz/hum

 

[bkrumme]

Best case solution is: Don't use/have any effects and run your guitar straight into your amp. Then you wont have the buzz/hum

Not neccessarily. Any fluorescent lights around? Computers? Wireless routers? Cellphones?

Best case: Play in a lead-lined room with extra shielding on everything. Use a solid-state amp and no FX.

 

[ShaneV]

Play acoustic guitar.

 

[zombi]

The M13 is a cool effects unit. As a personal preference I prefer analog, but let's not go off on the digital vs. analog tangent...

 

[bkrumme]

The M13 is a cool effects unit. As a personal preference I prefer analog, but let's not go off on the digital vs. analog tangent...

No need for a tangent There are places for both analog and digtal effects. It all depends on what YOU think sounds best.

I feel like a broken record at this point, but this really is the best advice you can give/get about effects. Do what sounds good to your ears. If there's a problem like humming or buzzing, we'll get it figured out. Once that is done, you should be set.

Another tip I could give is to get some kind of label maker, or use masking tape with a Sharpie. Mark all of the settings on your pedals just in case some dials get turned. It WILL happen and you'll end up with a noisy mess. Mark them when everything is sounding good. You could make it part of your pre-show or pre-rehearsal routine to check the levels of each item. It could get time consuming if you have a million pedals, but it's worth the check to be noise free .

 

[brownpants69]

Pay attention to the type of power adaptor powering your pedals. I've noticed that my setup is sensitive to noise from digital switchmode power supplies (these are the very light weight ones). I used a Dunlop DC Brick for years, and it turned out to be the source of the noise in my amp.

I actually got better results using a denelectro adaptor because it had a proper transformer.

Just something to watch out for. I'm sure not all amplifiers are sensitive to this.


One more thing- volume pedals. I use the ErnieBall volume for active pickups, even though I don't have active pickups. The volume pedal is in my signal chain after a buffer and after my overdrive/distortion pedals.

If you are using passive pickups, and running a volume pedal first thing in your chain, make sure it is designed for passive pickups as the pot in the pedal will load the pickups, and you will end up over compensating with EQ and shizzle on your sound. I've noticed some cheaper no-name pedals and budget pedals have this effect.