Ever Have a MM Bass With One String That Sounds TOTALLY Different Than The Others?

[Dusty Case]

I am fighting with a sonic issue with my "new" '92 MM Stingray 3EQ 4 string.
With flat eq, or SLIGHT eq boost or cut (and I mean slight) the G string either sticks out like a sore thumb, or almost of disappears. Depending on the treble side pickup height.
The scooped sound of that beautiful full low end and the smooth percussive high end that these basses have is there in spades on the E, A and D. But the G has no low end by comparison. And I mean NO low end. And the high end is MUCH more mid-rangey annoying and lifeless sounding.
I have tried EB Regular Slinky rounds, RotoSound 45-105 and as of last night, RotoSound 40-100. And the issue
is there with all of those. It ain't the strings. And it's not technique.
It's annoying when I play with my fingers and kind of infuriating when I play with a plectrum. Which is pretty much what I do. Having said that, I've NEVER had a bass before that just cries out to be played with fingers, like this Ray does. Anyway
The infuriating part is that I just cannot figure this out. I have done this bass playing thing for a looong time and although I am by no means ANY kind of guitar techie, I have always done medium-major and minor stuff on all of my guitars and basses to get happy with them. I know what goes where and why.
I don't play out anymore. So the rig is in one room. Always the same factors. Same amp, speaks and location.
I have had similar issues with other basses, but not with this severity. And the other basses that I still have don't have this sort of issue.
So no matter what adjustments I've made; every pickup height, saddle height, truss adjust combination imaginable, it changes slightly in volume and sound, but the lack of low end and just overall dead sound is still there. Saddle all the way down, or way up there and everything in between. Still there.
Checked and tightened bridge/body screws, neck heel plate screws and tuner screws. Checked and lowered the foam mutes as low as they will go. Checked for anything weird with the bridge, saddles and nut.
I sure can't SEE anything there.
And the bass / strings sound pretty even to me acoustically, with no amp. But when it's plugged in, that G just ain't right.
I am just baffled. This bass sounds amazing otherwise. But this G is just dead, clacky and annoying sounding.
Any theories? (other than I am a wackjob?...that's old news)

 

[JayDawg]

Have you tried putting a new battery in the bass?

 

[Golem]

Have you tried putting a new battery in the bass?

Good observation. If a new battery doesn't do it,
try bypassing the entire EQ-pre. Might hafta make
a pair of jumper cables with small gator clips on
one end and medium size on the other end. Small
clips on the jack contacts, medium clips on your
cable plug. Battery removed. Pluck and listen.

The G string runs from about 100hz on up. If the
EQ-pre is punking out on those frequencies and
the bypass restores them to the mix, then blame
the EQ-pre. If the bypass still doesn't provide any
reasonable play from the G string then SUSPECT
the PU ... but can't be 100% sure about the PU.

 

[Dusty Case]

Yes battery was the 1st thing I replaced when I got it home. Yes it was a new battery. I'll replace it again just to be sure that the battery is good.
It's just weird. I did a little searching earlier today and see that the "recommended" height adj for the pickup on a StingRay is quite a bit higher than I had it. I have always just gone with my my ear and common sense. SO I raised this one considerably and I am just waiting for my wife to get out of the her cask....I mean to get out of bed so I can check it out.
She is a LATE weekend sleeper. Must be nice.

Golem, jumping past the EQ/preamp is not something I would tackle. I'll wire a P Bass pickup, or a Tele switch, but wiring is not my favorite thing or my technical strong suit.

Thanks for the suggestions guys

 

[Golem]

Just in case it comes to "wiring", what I suggested doesn't
require any wiring, re-wiring, or unwiring of the existing
wiring in the bass. You simply go around it, using the pair
of cheap, easy-to-make jumpers.

Hopefully all will be well by the time wifey wakes up.

 

[Dusty Case]

Could a preamp or "EQ-pre" issue cause a prob with one string?
The G does have low end from the 12 or so fret and up.
It just sounds like a terrible dead spot right in the middle of the neck, that only affects the G string.
But doesn't sound dead to me acoustically.

I just don't know

 

[Golem]

A dying EQ-pre can have a drastic loss
in volume after a certain frequency cut
off point, acting sort of like a crossover.

Here's a test I expect you haven't tried.
Put another D-string in place of the G,
and tune it to D, so it plays the same
frequencies as the other D-string. If it's
still got problems in that position, that
would strongly suggest the PU is faulty
in that position. If it puts out a normal
volume, similar to the other D-string, it
means your EQ-pre isn't handling the
frequencies produced by the G-string.

Either of the above results would be in
line with your observation that when
you check acoustically the G-string is
not sounding weaker than normal.

 

[Dusty Case]

I will try that. Thx

 

[nhbassguitar]

Dusty, what's your signal chain, and/or what do you have available? Depending on your answer, I may be able to help. It will require precise, focused EQ work; that's the reason for my question.

 

[Dusty Case]

nhbasguitar, not much of a signal chain really. Bass to Carl Martin compressor (which i try NOT to engage as i am trying to discover what the heck is going on here) and then to the amp. Amp eq is mostly flat. No boost, just some minor cuts.
i cannot help but believe that this is a mechanics issue. Nut, saddle, neck, frets (?).
I have tried every combination of changes I can imagine, done in incremental steps and it can get better. But the issue is always there. I have futzed with the pole piece height 3 different times. And plan on trying that again tomorrow. As i said it can get better, but that G just has an irritating character all its own. I am "assuming" that the closest to the bridge set of 4 pole pieces produce more highs than the set in front of those. I haven't really moved the E or G pole pieces. They don't seem to want to move. The A and D moved easily. I know I could damage the windings or whatever, but I have to try something. Short of trying another pickup. I have yet to Golem's suggestion of Putting a D tuned to D in placed of the G and see if the lack of low end is still present. Will try that tomorrow as well.

 

[Dusty Case]

[/QUOTE]Here's a test I expect you haven't tried.
Put another D-string in place of the G,
and tune it to D, so it plays the same
frequencies as the other D-string.[/QUOTE]

Ok NOW my curiosity is really piqued!
Golem I tried your suggestion and I put a D tuned to D, in place of the G.
And the missing low end was miraculously back and it sounded like the other 3 strings.

Prior to that, today I had messed with the pole piece heights again too. Because the G was SO thin sounding, I raised the neck end of the pickup pole piece on the G as high as i could and still fit the adjust spring on it from underneath. And I lowered the bridge end G pole piece, thinking maybe that might tone down the annoying mid-high clank there.
The results were even worse than it was before. Now there was next to no volume at all on the G.

Now I know very little about the workings of bass and guitar pickups. I just (try and) play the things.
But based on my results with the extreme pole piece adjust on the G, I am guessing that whether the single humbuckings on these basses are in series or parallel, (I'm snot sure) that maybe the two pole pieces for each string must have to be remotely close in height adjust for the pickup to work properly?
As I said, one high and one low on the G made for VERY low volume.

So Golem.... given that your suggestion yielded a real result with the low end coming back with the D in place of the G, what do you think I need to do to rectify this weird thing?

 

[Golem]

Not sure I follow all the things that you've
done to the pole pieces, but I assume you've
brought them back to normal, cuz when they
were very different the sound got really thin.
So it seems that your PU is NOT to blame cuz
it has no trouble playing that extra D-string.

You have tried other G-strings, so the string
is not to be blamed.

IIRC you have ruled out your amp and every
part of your tone chain EXCEPT the built-in
EQ-pre in the bass. So it's possible to blame
that component for simply failing to play the
frequencies above the 5th fret on the G-string.
The notes from 5th fret to nut [on the G] are
replicated on the D-string. So it's now time to
bypass the EQ-pre and see what results. You
can do that without soldering or re-wiring if
you make that pair of jumper cables already
described earlier. Or perhaps pay an expert to
do that test, since there is now much greater
likelyhood that this is a very worthwhile test.

EDIT: Almost forgot to remind you to remove
the battery when using jumpers as a bypass !

I could see NOT paying a professional when so
many random possibilities were in play. And so
likewise I could see not wanting to do the job
yourself, cuz it's a minor PITA, and those other
possibilities were in play. BUT ... at this point,
the EQ-pre is rather suspect and so it's time to
either do the PITA job, or pay someone to do it.

I'm not an electronics engineer or expert, just
someone using a logical process of eliminating
variables. As a non-expert, I'd very much like
to hear from someone with real expertise but if
no one steps up to that, it really is time to take
action to evaluate the EQ-pre as faulty or OK.
Bypassing it is the only method I can think of.

 

[Dusty Case]

In my tendency to shy away from messing with intricate wiring (it is intricate to ME) I have tried something slightly different.
I messed with the pole piece height maybe 5 more times since my original post and I put a set of flats on the bass.
Then I took them off and adjust the pole pieces one more time and put the flats back on.
Firstly, the bass sounds GREAT with flats. And secondly, the annoyingly high-mid/no low end G string is better, with the odd pole piece adjust and the flats. ALL of pole pieces are different, now that I have had the opportunity to move them and keep fine tuning them. I will try to put up a pick of how different the individual pole piece heights are now.
Anyway, the troubling G is acceptably more tame now. I can live with it the way it is. And now I can just plait and enjoy the thing.
I am kind of blown away by the sound of the flats on the bass in general.
The only bass that I have had flats on and liked them, is a hollow body. As i can see A LOT of you bass players here dig flats on your MMs. And I will say that I really do as well.
One last weird question. Should the overall output volume of my StingRay be quite a bit lower than every passive bass that I have? This StingRay must be 25-30% lower at full vol/flat eq, than my other basses. I mean, it's just a matter of turning the amp up or down as the case may be. But i just wondered if StingRays are all like this, or all different?

 

[five7]

Normally a MM will be louder than passive basses.

 

[Golem]

I have way too many basses, so I have a
large "survey sample" and my impression
is that there is no generalizing that active
is louder than passive or vice versa. Also,
MM basses are at the middle area of the
survey, so their output is both higher and
lower than passive basses.

BUT ! Comparing output with "EQ flat" can
be misleading. EQ that favors the low end
just a bit [on-board EQ, not the amp] will
usually result in active basses having more
output than passive basses, as favoring the
low end on an active bass is bass boost but
on a passive bass it's a treble cut.

 

[Dusty Case]

VERY strange.
Even with the -14db switch engaged on my amp, the output volume of my
Lakland Bob Glaub is WAY higher than the StingRay with the -14 db
switch NOT engaged.
StingRay 3eq set like I would normally use it...slight boost /cut in miss / lows.
The Glaub is essentially a P Bass and it's low end is kind of with the pickups
that i have in it.
Not as tight or focused as the StingRay.
But it's BIG sounding.
I know that that is no big deal, just turn up the amp for the Ray.
But it sure is weird.
Of course there are wide fluctuations in output volume on every bass.
But in my many years, I've not experienced such a dramatic difference
with one that I owned.

And through tedious and repetitive pole piece height changes, the oddball
sounding G is workable for me now. It is what it is.
It's NOT fun to remove the strings from the tuners, remove the pickup,
futz with the hard to move pole pieces and
then put it all back together. Again and again. In fact I'm WAY sick of doing it.
I know am just too OCD about string to string/note to note volume and tone.

And I have switched strings again on the Ray. And THESE are keepers on this bass.
EB Cobalt Rounds 45-100. They were made for this bass.
(maybe they actually were)

 

[Bert]

I would contact John Kallas. Probably he can help with your pickup/electronic problem.

Music Man Stingray w/ weak G string | Page 6 | TalkBass.com

I owned 4 Rays two '79, one '93 and one '96 - never had those problems. All the same overall output volume and louder than my passive PBass.

 

[Dusty Case]

Bert, pardon my ignorance....
Who is John Kallas? If he works for EB/MM is he reachable
here on the EB Forum?
Thanks for the response

 

[Bert]

PM sent.

 

[xparis001]

Hi, so I'm a newbie to the forum, but I've been a member for 10 years ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. could you have a twisted string? If you do, it makes the string sound all phasy and out of whack. One of my pet peeves. To fix it, just loosen the string so you can pull it off the headstock. when you pull it off, does the coily bit still sit perpendicular to the headstock, or does it twist or tilt? If it does, move the string down into the bridge and roll it so the coily bits are perpendicular to the headstock again, then put it back on the tuning peg and re-tune. I've bought new basses set up like this, and even had basses given back to me strung and set up by "experts" with this problem. maybe I'm crazy, maybe im the only one who hears it, but it makes a difference to me.