Extra holes in MM 30th Anniv Bass

[Cornelius Sneed]

Recently I did a setup on a 30th Anniversary Stingray bass. It needed the neck angle changed, so I began to take it apart to shim it. Upon getting the neckplate off, I was surprised to see two largish holes (about 1/4”) through the neck pocket beneath it. My first thought was that these contained neck angle adjustment screws, with (for some reason) no corresponding holes in the neckplate, but upon closer inspection I could see that this was not the case.

I then proceeded to remove the neck, and looked at the holes from the other side. I could then see that they were really two holes each, meticulously bored to meet in the middle with a shelf of wood with a smaller hole in it halfway though; picture a tube with a washer halfway down inside it. Also with the neck off, I could see two additional holes that had been drilled from the inside, not quite all the way through. These were considerably smaller, at about 3/8 of an inch in diameter.

The owner was watching as I did all this, and asked me what the extra holes were for. I didn't have a good answer for him. To me they looked as though they had been bored in order to install, well, something, but I have no idea what.

Upon reassembly and completion of the setup, the bass played much better, but I was still not able to get the action as low as I would have liked because the frets were not level. This bass was purchased new by the owner, who is a guitar player, and has mostly sat in its case ever since. The frets show no sign of wear, so apparently they were not quite level when the instrument left the factory. And no, there is no twist or any other such nasty thing happening with the neck. The frets just aren't quite level.

The owner is happy with the setup for now, so I will probably not be leveling the frets any time soon. However, I was rather disappointed in the quality of this instrument. I should not have had to adjust the neck angle, nor should it need its frets leveled.

Can anyone tell me what these apparently extra holes are for? Also, is this typical quality and attention to detail for one of these, or maybe this one was built first thing on a Monday, or last thing on a Friday?

 

[tbonesullivan]

I have a love/hate relationship with threads like this. It often seems like people who start these threads have come here to start a fight.

now, this is a bass that was made SIX YEARS ago. That's plenty of time for the neck joint to settle, for moisture to have an effect, for fret sprout to happen, etc. I would think any qualified tech would be aware of that.

You also seem to know right where to go to air your complaints, and didn't even take the time to google something like "Musicman Stingray Neck Pocket" which would have shown you that is how their neck pockets are made.

http://forums.ernieball.com/music-man-basses/8079-neck-pocket-stamp.html

Now, what setup specifications were you using? Which frets are "rocking"? Did you bother to get a fret rocker to see which are not level and check to see if those frets had sprouted in the 6 years the bass spent where ever it happened to be?

 

[Cornelius Sneed]

Wow. I didn't come here to pick a fight. I am sorry if the tone of my OP made it seem that way to you, I was merely trying to be as clear and concise as possible in order to elicit the information I desired. Perhaps my disappointment with the bass is what you are offended by; if so, I am sorry, but I reserve the right to be disappointed whether you revere the instrument or not.

For my part I am genuinely curious as to what the extra holes are for. Simply showing me that this is how they are made does not answer my question. In any event, in addition to the holes shown in the picture on your linked page, there are two more holes as I described.

As to which frets are "rocking," as I did not intend to do a fret level, I didn't get out the straight edge and check. The setup specifications are my own, and as I say it plays well enough, just not quite up to my own standards. I am of course aware of the possible causes for the frets no longer being level, I just did not want to write a book explaining all my reasoning, as it has been my experience on forums that if the OP is too long, no one will bother to read it.

I am curious as to why you ask which frets are "rocking." (By which I assume you mean tall.) Would knowing this help you to actually answer my questions?

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

Welcome to the Forum.

>>> because the frets were not level.

>>> As to which frets are "rocking," as I did not intend to do a fret level, I didn't get out the straight edge and check.

So, how do you know the frets were not level?

 

[KevinM]

For my part I am genuinely curious as to what the extra holes are for.

I'm not completely familiar with EBMM's manufacturing processes but my first thought is that they are tooling holes used for manufacturing.

 

[Golem]

`

I have always assumed that the extra holes in
the frame of my Tacoma pickup have something
to do with jigging and alignment operations at
the assembly stage. I have seen various "extra"
holes in neck heels and neck pockets on various
basses. Sometimes, when I'm dismantling such
items as tape recorders, washing machines, etc,
I've encountered holes with no obvious purpose.

These things really keep me awake at night and
in my sleep depraved state I have been known
to post cynical replies in forum threads. Since I
do not own any assault-type weapons, I spoze
this is prolly more or less harmless pfun.

 

[liverbird]

Holes like this?



Or like this?

 

[steevo]

Musicman instruments are of exceptional quality, this isn't me being biased either as I have always been a predominantly fender man but lately find myself turning more and more to musicman.
I think you are right to raise the concerns and it's impossible that every instrument will be perfect from day one. This is an instrument that hasn't been played though and maybe that's caused the issues that you've raised.

 

[tbonesullivan]

The owner is happy with the setup for now, so I will probably not be leveling the frets any time soon. However, I was rather disappointed in the quality of this instrument. I should not have had to adjust the neck angle, nor should it need its frets leveled.

Can anyone tell me what these apparently extra holes are for? Also, is this typical quality and attention to detail for one of these, or maybe this one was built first thing on a Monday, or last thing on a Friday?

Wow. I didn't come here to pick a fight.

I am curious as to why you ask which frets are "rocking." (By which I assume you mean tall.) Would knowing this help you to actually answer my questions?

The first quote clearly sounds like picking a fight to me. You've pretty much accused them of being lazy. It's both how you said it, and what you said? A simple "is this normal" would suffice.

As for a fret rocker, I think it was stated previously, that how do you know you've actually got frets that aren't level unless you actually found the high or low frets? Yes I have seen bass strings with winding issues that vary in thickness. I also have NO idea what kind of conditions this bass was stored in. If it was in a dry area for 6 years, or was not kept properly in a moisture controlled environment, that can cause issues with the neck and fretboard being level. Both of these can cause frets to lift, as I am pretty sure EBMM does not glue in their frets, and they don't slide them in from the side like on a vintage Fender.

I have a guitar that a previous owner did NOT keep in a moisture-stable environment, and it barely got used as well. After 8 years, I'd have frets popping up repeatedly as it adjusted to being in a moisture-stable environment.

 

[Cornelius Sneed]

Welcome to the Forum.

Thank you.

So, how do you know the frets were not level?

By the simple method of setting the action height, (by adjusting the truss rod and saddle heights) then test-playing it. Certain notes rattled, most did not. When a note rattles under these conditions, and all else being equal, this means that either the fret that is stopping the string is low, or one (or more) between that fret and the bridge is high.

As you may already know, a straight edge isn't to tell you the frets aren't level, it is to tell you which frets are low or high once you have determined there is a problem by test-playing. You get the straight edge out not because you wonder if something is wrong, but rather because you know something is wrong and now you need to know exactly what and where in order to fix it.

In this case I simply raised the action a tiny bit, and the owner was happy, so I didn't get out the straight edge, but I didn't need to to know there was a problem.

I love your forum handle, btw.

 

[Cornelius Sneed]

Thanks, KevinM, I had gathered that. I am wondering, however, why they are necessary for the manufacturing process. Not that I think it is a huge deal, or that I think they are doing something stupid by doing it this way. At this point I am just curious. It would be nice if someone could say, for example, "Oh, those are used to support the body during the finishing process." I just am the sort of person who has trouble accepting "Because that is the way it is done" with no further explanation.

 

[Cornelius Sneed]

More like the "or like this" picture, but with a couple of extra 3/8" holes along the same plane, between the neck screw holes and the as yet unidentified holes in the center. The smaller diameter holes do not go all the way through.

 

[Cornelius Sneed]

Thanks, steevo. I agree regarding the usual quality of Musicman instruments, a guitar player I have worked with on and off for decades got one back in the eighties. I have done setup work for him, and was always impressed with the quality of the guitar. And I agree, no one is perfect. No guitar company that manufactures on a large scale can put out an absolutely perfect instrument every time.

 

[Cornelius Sneed]

Now that I re-read it, my OP was worded a little more strongly than I actually intended. I can see why you might take offense, and I apologize for that.

One of my joys in life is to take an instrument that plays poorly, perform a setup on it, and then being able to watch the owner's face light up with delight at the way it plays when I give it back. "Extra" holes aside, I was denied perfection this time by mechanical issues I would not generally expect to find on an instrument of this caliber. I was disappointed, and it seems as a result I was a bit cavalier in my opening comments. Again, I apologize.

 

[Tollywood]

Welcome to the forum Cornelius!

 

[bovinehost]

The instrument is six years old and only the owner knows whether it has been through serious humidity or temperature changes, that sort of thing. I think the problem was that you seemed to assume it came from the factory that way - and it may have, nothing is perfect 100 percent of the time - but it would be impossible to say at this point in its life, right?

If memory serves, and it often does not, the "extra" holes in the neck pocket serve various functions along the line during manufacturing.

Anyway, welcome to the forum. Let's all dial it back a bit and be friendly. If I can do it, anyone can!

 

[MadMatt]

<snip>

The owner was watching as I did all this, and asked me what the extra holes were for. I didn't have a good answer for him. To me they looked as though they had been bored in order to install, well, something, but I have no idea what.

<snip>

Can anyone tell me what these apparently extra holes are for? Also, is this typical quality and attention to detail for one of these, or maybe this one was built first thing on a Monday, or last thing on a Friday?

Welcome to the forum! Since this is a forum for people who love and cherish their Music Man's (I am a proud fanboy!) sometimes we have an allergic reaction to someone new, criticizing the build quality of the instruments. We know nothing is perfect, we simply see too many trolls here.

Now I personally can understand your curiosity around the holes. I am one of those technical wannabe engineers who constantly wonders how things are made.

There is an excellent factory tour video on Youtube that showed special "necks" bolted too the bodies for painting and polishing. I believe the holes you mentioned are used to fasten the bodies to those special necks for painting and polishing.

Here you can see some guitar bodies, fresh from the CNC machines with the holes you described: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=d-knWrDYBOc#t=283

Hear you can see those special "necks" used for painting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=M26M1IMFww8#t=76

And here there are other ones used for the buffing process: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=M26M1IMFww8#t=168

I hope that helps.