? for dudley...comp. nut

[bovinehost]

BTW..The 80's called, They want their FR trem back

*snickering*

 

[SteveB]

So we can put a man on he moon, but we can't develop a compensated nut for a Floyd? The way I see it compensated nuts, Buzz Feiten tunings etc are here to stay and improvements and refinements on the guitar are always gonna happen. And that's because of innovative companies like EB. Somebody will do it. Just got my hopes up when Dudley said all MM guitars except fretless would have it.

Colin

Col,

I'm among those not really convinced that we ever put a man on the moon, either.
Does that make me a pessimist?

 

[bovinehost]

I'm among those not really convinced that we ever put a man on the moon, either.

Steve, believe me, one of the things our government can't do is keep a secret.

This is the only thing that leads me to believe that we really did go to the moon.

 

[blackspy]

Ah, the Floyd bashing They're a pain, but I can do stuff on a FR that knocks anything else out of tune, no matter what, yet the FR stays in tune, perfectly. Lots of people do still use them, and there is a reason for that. If they sucked, they'd have disappeared long ago. They just sort of got piled into the whole 80's/early 90's guitar slinger backlash. No Solos! No Floyds! No shredding!

 

[tommyindelaware]

I can't think how you'd manufacture a compensated nut for a Floyd.. it'd be difficult at *best*.

seems to me that it wounld be any more difficult than a regular one to set up for. just a little different shape....

 

[PeteDuBaldo]

Right, seeing Dudley's design of his compensated nut immediately gave me an idea of how to apply that same principle on a Floyd-equipped guitar. It would require the precision manufacture of a Floyd nut (uh-oh), and machined & staggered lockdowns.

If I had any CNC skills I would try it in a heartbeat - plenty of beater guitars here with Floyds.

 

[enjoneer]

Yes, to make a compensated nut for a Floyd Rose equipped guitar would require a custom designed and manufactured locking nut. Not impossible by any means, but it's not something we've been slated to work on at the moment.

 

[Mick]

I´ve seen such a thing a while ago at Earvana´s HP but I think they had to remove it.
Legal stuff!!!

 

[Guitarburetor]

OK, I hope you skinny string boys don't mind me piling on Dudley while he's here......

Does your compensated nut system require or benefit from an adjusted tuning temperment?

There's another thread in the Bass Forum about it - here's a link to my questions - LINK

I was going to grill you on this one during the Q&A session at the Open House, thanks for showing up here so we can get it resolved before then....

It does not require a tempered tuning. The subject of temperment is, well- subjective! There are different theories and preferences for tuning other instruments, and our ears don't all operate the same either. For most of us that don't have "perfect pitch" it's relative. If you are playing with a piano that has a tempered tuning, you would probably benefit from tempering the guitar, but if you play in a 3 piece rock band and everybody is cool enough to play MMs (for instance) it's probably not necessary to temper.

 

[Guitarburetor]

Dudley, does that included MM instruments that have locking nuts as well?

Colin

Sorry, my mistake. At this time, we do not have a locking nut with compensation for the Floyd. It would be entirely possible to make one, but would require some expensive tooling. The biggest issue there is that the FR trem system isn't as popular as it used to be, and getting a return on the investment could take a very long time.

Here is another possible solution, YOU TELL ME what you think? The original EB MM trem guitars had a lock/retainer that was mounted behind the nut. This allows use of a compensated nut, and has the added advantage of allowing you to cut the nut for optimum clearance over the first fret on each string. The tuning performance difference between this and the FR nut is minimal. I can get a picture of this up soon if you like.

 

[Mick]

Here is another possible solution, YOU TELL ME what you think? The original EB MM trem guitars had a lock/retainer that was mounted behind the nut. This allows use of a compensated nut, and has the added advantage of allowing you to cut the nut for optimum clearance over the first fret on each string. The tuning performance difference between this and the FR nut is minimal. I can get a picture of this up soon if you like.[/QUOTE]


Great idea Dudley but if you already have the FR Nut installed it´s major work.
I see that EB has to sell hundreds of such a compensated locking nut to make a break even deal.

So check your company´s computer and tell everyone with a EVH or Axis to buy that nut in advance (6000 EVHs made? + Axis nr???)
Wouldn´t that be enough??

I would need two for me, and would take 10 more for my repair store.
So only 5988 pieces away

I would post a rumour that the compensated locking nut makes parts of your body grow a lot . What an idea for a spam Mail, ooops.



Thanks Dudley for your input on that forum.
Mick

 

[NorM]

I had a guitar with the locking mechanism behind the nut and I loved that. It would be two screws to install and the Floyd Comp Nut (FCN) nut could use the existing screw holes to install.
This should work on any guitar with a floyd yes? There's a lot of those out there.

One of my floyded silos would benefit from this greatly. I had a luither install a lowers pitch only MM Floyd on it. But the intonation for the first 7 frets or so is not that great. I can't play the classical pieces on this guitar because it bothers me so much. It would really benefit from a FCN.

I want 4 of them until I get my y2d then I will want 5.

 

[tommyindelaware]

heck..i'll give it a try....

hey dudley !!!!!
i am dying to find out about your compensated nut ? i wired in a trim pot on the y2d w/ the black plug in the pickguard for skoots & steve back a month or so...and the nut was very clean....not like a shelf nut. like mabey the nut slot has a different location ??????

what's the scoop ??????

my beautiful trial balloon

i am capible of filling a nut slot & recutting it if thats what it would take to be able to use the comp. nut.
really hope ya join in .....

howdy dudley ,
would a retrofit on a morse guitar invovle filling & relocating the nut slot ?

 

[SteveB]

Here is another possible solution, YOU TELL ME what you think?

Dudley,

I think it sounds great, and that's why you're the brains and we're the buyers.

 

[blackspy]

Sorry, my mistake. At this time, we do not have a locking nut with compensation for the Floyd. It would be entirely possible to make one, but would require some expensive tooling. The biggest issue there is that the FR trem system isn't as popular as it used to be, and getting a return on the investment could take a very long time.

Here is another possible solution, YOU TELL ME what you think? The original EB MM trem guitars had a lock/retainer that was mounted behind the nut. This allows use of a compensated nut, and has the added advantage of allowing you to cut the nut for optimum clearance over the first fret on each string. The tuning performance difference between this and the FR nut is minimal. I can get a picture of this up soon if you like.

If it were a simple retrofit for an existing Floyd nut, I'll bet you could sell them stand alone if you wanted. I know I certainly would buy one for my Axis, and I'd want more for other guitars I'm sure.

 

[Roxy]

Vai and Satriani have both endorsed and use the Buzz Feiten system. I've always wondered how its designed since they use clamps. There maybe more info on Buzz's website, but I haven't looked since I don't own a FR anymore.

My JP7 Buttercream has the compensated nut, but I didn't know what it was. Thanks! I'll have to try the Buzz Feiten setting on my Peterson Strobostomp for kicks.

 

[tommyindelaware]

Vai and Satriani have both endorsed and use the Buzz Feiten system. I've always wondered how its designed since they use clamps. There maybe more info on Buzz's website, but I haven't looked since I don't own a FR anymore.

My JP7 Buttercream has the compensated nut, but I didn't know what it was. Thanks! I'll have to try the Buzz Feiten setting on my Peterson Strobostomp for kicks.

if i'm not mistaken ....you are to use a regular tuner for the compensation to work correctly. the nut is a different design than buzz's.

dudley ?????

 

[John C]

Vai and Satriani have both endorsed and use the Buzz Feiten system. I've always wondered how its designed since they use clamps. There maybe more info on Buzz's website, but I haven't looked since I don't own a FR anymore.

My JP7 Buttercream has the compensated nut, but I didn't know what it was. Thanks! I'll have to try the Buzz Feiten setting on my Peterson Strobostomp for kicks.

The Buzz Feiten system combines moving the nut slightly closer to the bridge from its "normal" position and then applying his tempered intonation and tuning; the nut itself is not compensated like the one Dudley developed (or the Earvana shelf nut). I'm sure that Vai and Satriani just either cut the existing necks to move the Ibanez/FR nut (or had Ibanez make them new necks with the cut for the FR nut in the right place). I've owned one guitar with the BF system - a John Suhr vintage strat-style. It had a normal nut located in the sposition specified for the BF system, and the bridge was intonated to the BF offsets.

I have heard of luthiers using a shelf nut for the BF system, but mostly when they didn't want to permanently alter the neck of the guitar (like on vintage instruments).

I'll add to tommyindelaware's post regarding using the BF settings for a guitar with a different compensated system. When I sold the Suhr strat-style I feld I needed to go to a shorter scale guitar due to some left-hand issues, so I went back to a PRS. PRS also uses a compensated scale designed for use with standard tuners. The buyer of my Suhr had just upgraded to a Strobostomp and didn't want Korg DT-7 tuner I was useing for the BF tuning (it has a BF setting). I tried tuning the PRS to the BF setting, and it sounded out-of-tune compared to using the "normal" setting.

A little editorializing here - the Suhrs, PRSi, etc are gone; my main guitar is my December 2004 Silo Special. My Silo Special does not have the compensated nut, and it sounds very well intonated and "in tune" to my ears; far better than the Fender I took in on a trade shortly after buying the EBMM. If the EBMMs are this "in tune" prior to the compensated nut, I can only imagine how "in tune" they sound with the new nut.

 

[Guitarburetor]

if i'm not mistaken ....you are to use a regular tuner for the compensation to work correctly. the nut is a different design than buzz's.

dudley ?????

Dudley reporting for duty...
I don't claim to be an expert on the Buzz Feiten tuning system, and I don't know off the top of my head what the Peterson tuner's compensation is for the Feiten intonation. I suspect that the Floyd Rose equipped guitars being talked about in this thread have the nut moved closer to the first fret, and are then intonated per the BF specs.

The MM compensated nut changes the distance between the nut and first fret different amounts, based on typical string sets. This eliminates the necessity to intonate the strings differently at the octave. As I discussed in an earlier post, it is still possible to add compensation to the entire scale if desired, but whether to do that or not is a matter of personal taste, and the intonation scheme of other instruments you may be playing with. For instance, there are different theories and methods for tuning pianos, and if you are playing with a piano with tuning that is tempered, it may be beneficial to apply the same temper to the guitar scale. If you don't always work in the same situation with the same instruments you are probably better off with standard intonation.

 

[glockaxis]

If I ordered a Luke this month, would it come w/ a compensated nut?