For Jon: Luke trem setup ???'s

[PurpleSport]

Hey Jon -

I just tried out a new Radiance Red Luke at the Manhattan Guitar Center yesterday, and I must say it's quite an impressive piece all around - I put it up against a brand new Axis they also had there, and even my girlfriend commented it was a far more lively and rockin' guitar once she got over the striking looks (red's her fave color, and one can only hope I'll see one of these as a future Christmas gift, but I digress)...

I believe I've seen past mention here that the Luke trem is set up to float - true or not?

What I also noticed straightaway on this one was the trem's action - it was s-m-o-o-t-h feeling and soft, not unlike some of the better set-up Fender American Standard and Jeff Beck signature Strats I've tried.

My AL's trem is the standard backstopped setup and has a stiffer "vintage" feel, and the more modern feel on that Luke was preferable. Any insider tips on how I might set the AL trem up like the Luke's (i.e. number of springs, spring-to-block placement, spring tension, bridge plate height measurements above the body, etc) ?

Luke owners who are in the know about this are free to chime in too!

 

[jongitarz]

The Luke is set up to float. It should go up a step and a half when it is set up correctly. The reason it feels schmoover, is because it uses 2 springs and your AL uses 3. Any of our vintage bridges or solis saddles like you would find on a Super Sport can be set up to float. You would have to remove the middle spring and we on thetrem claw side of the springs move the springs in one notch, so they make sort of a "V" shape. Then its just a balancing act between string tension and spring tension....Tuning...adjusting the trem claw, tuning until its pulling up 1 and a half steps.

 

[PurpleSport]

Figured it was something along those lines...I'm psyched to try it on my AL now.

Thanks for the info, Jon!

 

[thindave]

Purp, I made that change on my AL's trem last week and I couldn't believe how much better it felt. Maybe I'm just a California lawmaker... (Girlie Man!)

 

[jongitarz]

There is also good setup info on our website in the FAQ section.....Purp...let me know how it turns out!

 

[thindave]

Jon, along these lines, how do you know when to stop tightening the trem claws on back? Obviosly, the bridge will go flush against the body, but can you cause damage by over- tightening?

 

[jongitarz]

The way we set them up here is by bending the 3rd string at the 5th fret up about a step and a half, and the bridge should just SLIGHTLY start to rise up

 

[tristan]

. The reason it feels schmoover, is because it uses 2 springs and your AL uses 3.

nice! that's the way I do tune my luke! 2 springs...it much more sensitive like that, and stays in tune!

 

[OrangeChannel]

Jon, along these lines, how do you know when to stop tightening the trem claws on back? Obviosly, the bridge will go flush against the body, but can you cause damage by over- tightening?

You might dimple the wood a bit. I'll probably keep it tight like tiger on my silo when I recieve t just to have a bit of variety in the stable.

 

[jongitarz]

I would be more worried about the trem slapping back against the body after a dive bomb or something, but OC is right it could dimple the body

 

[PurpleSport]

Hey Jon/Thindave -
I've tried this, and I'm not having a lot of luck here....

First, I did what i believe Jon described - removed the middle spring, then V-ed the other springs on holes 1 and 5 to the middle 2nd and 4th hooks on the claw.This didn't give me the soft tension, even with cranking the claw tight. In fact, I had the claw almost completely against the body, and the bridge was still tilted pretty far forward, perhaps a 20-30 degree angle at pitch on the baseplate. This caused the arm to sit pretty low relative to the guitar's face, definitely NOT what I saw on the Luke yesterday.

I then loosened the claw and readjusted the claw/spring combination so the springs ran straight from claw hooks 2 and 4 to spring holes 2 and 4. Still, no dice. Arm tension/bridge angle was pretty much the same, and again, I had to crank the claw tight up against the body - you literally can't fit two heavy picks in the gap. Not only that, the float range only goes 2 steps up, and tuning goes sharp when you let go after a pull-up (returns to pitch fairly well when pressing the trem back down).

Any idea what's happening here? It's almost like the springs don't have enough tension in them to counteract the string pull...seems really odd that I have to crank the claw so much. Even in this state, where it's closest to being "right", the feel is just not smooth at all - in fact, the springs are even making some noise in the second example when using the arm now.

 

[thindave]

Purp, I have mine set flush up against the body - no floating at all (which is how I think they're supposed to be setup). What gauge strings are you using? I stayed with 10's but tune 1/2 step down.

 

[Jimi D]

PurpleSport - what string guage do you use? The secret is that there really is no secret; it's a simple balancing act - string tension vs. spring tension. If you don't get enough spring tension with two springs and the claw torqued down to the wood, there's really only three things you can try. You can go down a guage in strings - light strings mean less tension mean the springs will be able to pull the trem down more... You can try replacing the trem springs with new ones - sometimes they wear out, or so I've been told. I have to admit I've never tried this myself... You can unscrew the claw and add the third spring but with the claw "loose" to help give you an easier, slinkier trem action... If I were you, I'd bring the claw back out away from the edge of the trem cavity, add the third spring again, and balance it that way and see how you like it...

 

[PurpleSport]

Hi guys -

Thanks for all the input...here's the deal:

1) The guitar is using the same strings it had when I first got it last month, so I'm not sure what gauge they are (they feel like 9s). I actually prefer Hybrid Slinkys with a light top/heavy bottom (9 gauge specs for the plains, 10 spec on the wounds), but if 10's are the root of the problem here, I have a feeling those aren't gonna work either as the overall tension effect on that set seems to lean closer to 10s in my past trem setup excursions.

2) The guy I bought it from on eBay said the AL was only a couple months old, so I'm also not sure if they're the factory strings (which I think are spec-ed for 10s on ALs - which seems odd because I read an interview where he said he uses 8s!) or they'd been replaced since he got it. They seemed new when I got the guitar, and they definitely stretched and then stabilized during the first day or so of delivery like new strings. Looking at their ball ends in the block last nite for the first time, I noticed they appear like they might be Fender Bullets, but I'm not a string whore so I can only guess - I'm leaning toward the theory that they've been replaced based on these observations.

If they're 10's, I might be able to understand the tension being the way it is currently. If that's the case, the AL certainly plays easier with 'em than they do on my '57 reissue Strat (of course, a lot of other guitars do too). In fact, I did the ol' trem balancing routine on that guitar quite successfully a long time ago with 10s and then again a few years ago with the Hybrid set and it stays in tune really well, so I'm familiar with how this procedure should work.

I'll retry the middle spring again with a looser claw tonite and see if things improve, and if not, I'll head around the corner to Sam Ash and grab a set of 9s.

Really hope I can find the magic combination - would be cool if the AL trem could waggle like the Luke's, and don't see why it wouldn't....they're the same trem/springs with the same dimensions on the cavity route, right Jon?

 

[thindave]

That's really strange - I found 9's to be too much like dental floss on the AL, so that's why I went back to 10s. Maybe the springs just don't have enough pull? Did you get extra springs with it (I got two extra besides the installed 3) - maybe swap the springs?

 

[jongitarz]

You are right sir! However, Albert uses 10's with a .016 for the G string rather than a .017. The Luke uses 9's This could be the problem in the balancing act.

 

[thindave]

Wait, who's right? Mine is pretty darn buttery...