Butch Snyder
Well-known member
Why did you remove them? What did you replace them with? Me, I'm thinking about a Fred/PAF Joe combo for more spank. Thoughts?
- Thread starter Butch Snyder
- Start date
banjoplayer
Well-known member
Hi Butch,
although I did not replace them... (the thread is not adressed to me
)..
I really believe the pickups are a big part of (t)his unique sound which I love (as the guitar itself is).
I like to hear what you are trying but that´s why I´m not modding my Morse.
Another thought (comparing my AL and Morse): The Morse has a lot less "spank" than the AL. May it be possible, that this is because Morse is a "Top-Loader" and AL is "String-Through Body".... Opinions, Beeej? Tommy? SMOC? etc?
although I did not replace them... (the thread is not adressed to me
)..I really believe the pickups are a big part of (t)his unique sound which I love (as the guitar itself is).
I like to hear what you are trying but that´s why I´m not modding my Morse.
Another thought (comparing my AL and Morse): The Morse has a lot less "spank" than the AL. May it be possible, that this is because Morse is a "Top-Loader" and AL is "String-Through Body".... Opinions, Beeej? Tommy? SMOC? etc?
PeteDuBaldo
Well-known member
Banjo, the Morse is made with a Poplar body and has a rosewood fretboard, while the AL is Southern Ash with a maple fretboard. That can account for a huge amount of the difference. Some people claim that strings through the body sound better, or brighter, or darker, or worse, and if they hear it then it must be true. Personally, I don't think it makes a difference.
Butch, I am interested to see where you wind up this time around!
Butch, I am interested to see where you wind up this time around!
beej
Moderator
I've tried a set of Axis p'ups. Pretty cool, actually. Though I prefer the original Morse p'ups, they're more my cup of tea on this guitar. I did replace the singles, I've been through tons of sets. Suhr FLs were the top contender for real SCs. Bill Lawrence L-200s are my favourite noiseless, and are in my #1. (They're also in my AL.)
As Pete says, the difference in woods makes a difference (though Poplar isn't that far from Ash, tonally).
A bridge 'bucker is really never going to get that spanky, unless you go with something with a lower inductance. Bill Lawrence has some single coil-esqe ones that would do the trick. Not too familiar with the Dimarzio lineup but I'm sure there's something in there. But it's going to be the opposite of a high output gainy pickup with lots of mids.
Coil splitting the Morse definitely gets you more twang. (I wired my coil split up with a Silent Circuit so it's quiet when I do that.) Just something to consider.
Another idea- why not put a single coil in the bridge? Get a new PG with a different config. You could get something really twangy for the bridge. Even noiseless so you can crank up the gain. (Mmm .... MM90s would sound great in there!)
As Pete says, the difference in woods makes a difference (though Poplar isn't that far from Ash, tonally).
A bridge 'bucker is really never going to get that spanky, unless you go with something with a lower inductance. Bill Lawrence has some single coil-esqe ones that would do the trick. Not too familiar with the Dimarzio lineup but I'm sure there's something in there. But it's going to be the opposite of a high output gainy pickup with lots of mids.
Coil splitting the Morse definitely gets you more twang. (I wired my coil split up with a Silent Circuit so it's quiet when I do that.) Just something to consider.
Another idea- why not put a single coil in the bridge? Get a new PG with a different config. You could get something really twangy for the bridge. Even noiseless so you can crank up the gain. (Mmm .... MM90s would sound great in there!)
Butch Snyder
Well-known member
Hi Butch,
although I did not replace them... (the thread is not adressed to me
I really believe the pickups are a big part of (t)his unique sound which I love (as the guitar itself is).
I like to hear what you are trying but that´s why I´m not modding my Morse.
Another thought (comparing my AL and Morse): The Morse has a lot less "spank" than the AL. May it be possible, that this is because Morse is a "Top-Loader" and AL is "String-Through Body".... Opinions, Beeej? Tommy? SMOC? etc?
Yes, I believe the stock pickups are part of the design of the guitar itself and an integral part of its sound. That said, while I look at that guitar as my choice of guitar for all-around use, I don't look at the stock pickups as having "my sound". They have Steve's sound; although good, it's not my sound. And personally, I don't think string-through is a significant difference from top-loading.
Well, I'm going to be hard-pressed to find a better combo than the Air Zone/Air Norton combo. It's a huge sound with tons of dynamics. I've even thought of a Duncan JB/Jazz combo to use with the stock 250k pots. That's the way Seymour designed them; albeit with an ash bodied Esquire...
But, I'll let ya know; and Pete, if it weren't for your generosity, I wouldn't be able to change pickups. Before the trade of my Y2D for my Standard Morse, I wouldn't have changed out the stock Y2D pickups. Basically due to the aesthetics.
Depends on your right-hand technique. I can get a Fred or JB to sound like a good fat Tele bridge pickup.
I was thinking about wiring in parallel. Splitting really drops the output and introduces hum. Parallel keeps a good portion of the output as well as hum-canceling.
PeteDuBaldo
Well-known member
Butch, I just remembered that I have a blue swirl pickguard for the Morse. If you want it, it's yours!
banjoplayer
Well-known member
Interesting. I can not really tell the difference. I think to tell you should have the direct comparison in similar guitars. I thought about it as I remembered a quote from tommy which I found again:
in this thread.
http://www.ernieball.com/forums/music-man-guitars/26620-making-morse-tele.html
But this only for the sake of completeness
as we are talking about Pickups - end of hijack
Butch Snyder
Well-known member
But this only for the sake of completeness
No worries here..
beej
Moderator
I used to have my Morse set up for series/split/parallel for both HBs via a little toggle. My homemade strat is like that, too.
It's not bad- the parallel setting is pretty close to the split when you have some gain on tap (except for the hum). But clean you can definitely hear the difference, there's just a little more definition (high end) with the split setting. I tried a few different approaches for noise reduction (including taking a Suhr backplate apart to see if I could fit the coil in the cavity); in the end I wired up a Silent Circuit for the coil split. It works really well, actually. I have it on my Y2D as well- it comes into the circuit when the coil is split (and for the single on my Y2D), does a great job of noise reduction.
Anyhoo ... definitely interested to see how you make out!
Butch Snyder
Well-known member
Hmmmm, interesting...
Dante
Well-known member
**** THAT!
i stuck EMG85, SA and 60 in my smy2d. the dimarzios were too noisy for the types of gain i use and don't got too good with the ****y electricity i work with (lots of residual). and i don't think dimarzio makes a high gain pickup i would like. i kept the EBMM pots and co as these looked ALOT better than what ships with EMGS. and it's wired like a silo, not like SM has his done.
oh, and you have to carve the pickup screw tags to fit them in the axe.
soundwise, it's heaven. the bridge notes are fat (much fatter than the 81) and it has lost it's the quacky tone the original had. man, that pickup could NOT chunk. and the harmonics come off much easier than on your average passive.
the SA is a great pickups for anything you might want a single coil for.
and the 60 is... well, it reminds me of the MM90 in the neck of my ASS but with a megaton more bass, and thinner(like a single coil gain matched to the bridge pickup). if you're used to pickups which sound good for themselves, you will be knocked on your behind by how much that pickup has to be played. but treat it kindly and it will never get in your way. if petrucci played EMGS, he would have a 60/60a in the neck, for sure.
as for the whole top loader discussion, i have the SM, an ASS and a 20th, all of which are hardtails. the sm has BY FAR the clearest attack. it has a lighter, clearer tone than the 20th, but is better described as lively instead of bright, like the ASS is. i also have a les paul std. also top loaded and also has a clearer attack than the silo and ASS. just my 2 cents, but if i had to record and tour today, i would get more SMY2Ds.
i stuck EMG85, SA and 60 in my smy2d. the dimarzios were too noisy for the types of gain i use and don't got too good with the ****y electricity i work with (lots of residual). and i don't think dimarzio makes a high gain pickup i would like. i kept the EBMM pots and co as these looked ALOT better than what ships with EMGS. and it's wired like a silo, not like SM has his done.
oh, and you have to carve the pickup screw tags to fit them in the axe.
soundwise, it's heaven. the bridge notes are fat (much fatter than the 81) and it has lost it's the quacky tone the original had. man, that pickup could NOT chunk. and the harmonics come off much easier than on your average passive.
the SA is a great pickups for anything you might want a single coil for.
and the 60 is... well, it reminds me of the MM90 in the neck of my ASS but with a megaton more bass, and thinner(like a single coil gain matched to the bridge pickup). if you're used to pickups which sound good for themselves, you will be knocked on your behind by how much that pickup has to be played. but treat it kindly and it will never get in your way. if petrucci played EMGS, he would have a 60/60a in the neck, for sure.
as for the whole top loader discussion, i have the SM, an ASS and a 20th, all of which are hardtails. the sm has BY FAR the clearest attack. it has a lighter, clearer tone than the 20th, but is better described as lively instead of bright, like the ASS is. i also have a les paul std. also top loaded and also has a clearer attack than the silo and ASS. just my 2 cents, but if i had to record and tour today, i would get more SMY2Ds.
tommyindelaware
Well-known member
you may wanna read up on using the 25k pots emg supplies w/ thier pickups instead of the 500k in the y2d.there is a reason they supply the pickups. they match up w/the pickup's low impedance emg system and will allow them to sound the way they are designed to. you may like them even better then.....
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Butch Snyder
Well-known member
That's right. I believe EMG's come stock with 25k pots for a reason.
Dante
Well-known member
EDIT: READ BELOW
i always thought they ship those to prevent people from installing them with even WORSE pots.
ive had a Washburn 50x profe, which also had emgs, and it came with emgs own pots. it was very friendly sounding, mistakes didnt cut through as much. but harmonics weren't really there.
for 30 euros i had the pots switched out. the change in sound is like switching between completely different pickups. the treble is way more open, two whole steps closer to single coils in a way. but with BALLS. and i can hear how much i suck again.
so i've had emgs twice, ive chosen 500k pots over 25k pots twice. if there is a reason (no doubt there actually is), i prefer the worst of the two sets =)
found this on the harmony central forums. and yet, i have no output problems...
EDIT: differences between pots apply only when "closing" the pot because all decent pots have a resistance of zero when fully open. when closing however, 500k pots will be very opressing on low impedance circuits. a 500k will, in theory, produce radical and abrupt dips and dunks in volume and tone.BUT that's just fine with me because i use so much distortion that i usually had to turn the pot down to 2 or 3 to go from CRUNCH to crunch.
and thats pretty much it folks. im sticking with the wrong pots =)
i always thought they ship those to prevent people from installing them with even WORSE pots.
ive had a Washburn 50x profe, which also had emgs, and it came with emgs own pots. it was very friendly sounding, mistakes didnt cut through as much. but harmonics weren't really there.
for 30 euros i had the pots switched out. the change in sound is like switching between completely different pickups. the treble is way more open, two whole steps closer to single coils in a way. but with BALLS. and i can hear how much i suck again.
so i've had emgs twice, ive chosen 500k pots over 25k pots twice. if there is a reason (no doubt there actually is), i prefer the worst of the two sets =)
found this on the harmony central forums. and yet, i have no output problems...
EDIT: differences between pots apply only when "closing" the pot because all decent pots have a resistance of zero when fully open. when closing however, 500k pots will be very opressing on low impedance circuits. a 500k will, in theory, produce radical and abrupt dips and dunks in volume and tone.BUT that's just fine with me because i use so much distortion that i usually had to turn the pot down to 2 or 3 to go from CRUNCH to crunch.
and thats pretty much it folks. im sticking with the wrong pots =)
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beej
Moderator
No- that's not right. The pickups will see the full load of the pot(s) they're wired up to, regardless of how you dial them in.
A pot is like a resistor with a variable middle lug. But the difference between the outside lugs is always the full resistance of the pot. You wire the pickups to one outside lug, you wire the other outside lug to ground. So the pickups are going to see the full resistance of that pot.
The wiper (the lug in the middle) is variable, though, as you sweep the pot. The voltage at that point is fed to your cable. But the full load of the pot is affecting your pickups.
Using high impedance (250k/500k) pots with EMGs is definitely not ideal. I'm definitely a fan of doing whatever sounds good to your ears, but I'd think you'd notice problems with that wiring.
Volt
Well-known member
My favorite sounding pickups (so far) are the '57 classics in one of my semi-hollow-body guitars. Although I am very satisfied with the tone of the factory Y2D pickups, I was thinking about possibly doing a PAF Joe (neck)/PAF Pro (bridge) combo some day and have them set up for coil-splitting.
I'm interested in how your swap turns out.
I'm interested in how your swap turns out.
Dante
Well-known member
hmm, ive been doing all the reading i can... so far, people only mention impedance when discussing the effects of long cables and treble roll off.
and since i actually notice more breathing space (treble) with higher value pots, i dont really understand what the connection is anymore. up till now, emgs with 25k pots always sounded a little too dark and bloated to me. i always assumed it had to do with cheap parts and so...
tommyindelaware
Well-known member
EMG pots are actually very good. & their solder joints are far superior to the competition. (except mine ).
).
beej
Moderator
EMGs aren't like passive pickups. They have an onboard preamp which buffers the signal. The simplest answer is that the circuit is designed for 25k controls and works best with pots in that range. Higher resistance pots won't give you as much control over the volume range (EMG says they'll function more like an off switch) and probably will affect the sound somewhat.
As for impedance, it's an electrical property- used to represent the relationship between voltage and current which a device is capable of accepting/delivering. Everything in the signal path adds to the impedance- resistance from your pots and cable, resistance at the input of your amp, the capacitance of your guitar's cable, the inductance from the coils in your pickups, etc. You don't usually have to worry too much about it. Especially with the EMGs, the low impedance signal is less affected by the loss of high-end due to cable capacitance from long cable runs.
Wow -- I'm 2 years late to this thread but I want to say that I bought my Y2D online without playing or hearing it it. I opened the case -- "Wow. This is the most beautiful guitar I have ever owned!". I picked it up and strummed it unplugged -- "Wow. This is the best playing guitar I have ever owned!" Then I plugged it in -- "Wow. This is the worst sounding guitar I have ever owned!"
I had not realized it's a "shredder's guitar". I spent an entire weekend experimenting with 4 high-end tube amps. The pickup output is so hot that it basically pushes any amp into distortion. And not good distortion -- very mid-rangey cutting distortion. The body is so heavy it's like a brick -- it sustains but it doesn't "resonate" if that makes any sense. The tone is not "organic". It sounds like a budget Ibanez. This guitar just doesn't do bluesy classic-rock crunch -- it does blistering but it doesn't do anything else. I take that back -- the single-coil is OK. But really the only usable sound is Ultra-High Gain -- it does that 1,000 lb bee thing really well. Still my Silohuettes sound 10 times better and my 25th sounds 100 times better.
So I yanked those purple atrocities out and swapped in the pickups from one of my Silhouettes (Virtual PAFs I guess) and Bingo -- problem solved.
I need to put that Silo back together though, so next month I plan to get a Dimarzio AT-1 for the bridge and a FRED for the neck.
In summary: Great guitar. Terrible pickups.
I had not realized it's a "shredder's guitar". I spent an entire weekend experimenting with 4 high-end tube amps. The pickup output is so hot that it basically pushes any amp into distortion. And not good distortion -- very mid-rangey cutting distortion. The body is so heavy it's like a brick -- it sustains but it doesn't "resonate" if that makes any sense. The tone is not "organic". It sounds like a budget Ibanez. This guitar just doesn't do bluesy classic-rock crunch -- it does blistering but it doesn't do anything else. I take that back -- the single-coil is OK. But really the only usable sound is Ultra-High Gain -- it does that 1,000 lb bee thing really well. Still my Silohuettes sound 10 times better and my 25th sounds 100 times better.
So I yanked those purple atrocities out and swapped in the pickups from one of my Silhouettes (Virtual PAFs I guess) and Bingo -- problem solved.
I need to put that Silo back together though, so next month I plan to get a Dimarzio AT-1 for the bridge and a FRED for the neck.
In summary: Great guitar. Terrible pickups.
