Freedom of Speech (or lack thereof)

[Raz]

Well this thread will probably get closed, but I feel the need to post this just to clear my name. I've been a member hear for awhile now, not as long as some, but long enough. I do what I can for people, and I believe I spread the word about Ernie Ball and all of it's products. Just recently I had a thread closed down, which is no big deal,
however, I want to let everyone know that, I did not in anyway mean to insult those who were deeply affected by the events which occured several years ago (you know which terrible event). I don't want to make a big stink here, but I just want to be clear that sometimes things get misrepresented, especially when threads get closed down prematurely. If we recall a thread went on for several pages, where the poster was defiant and actually insulting to the company, yet the thread remained opened, allowing the poster to explain his words...yet I had no opportunity to do so. This hurt me and I feel at this time,(and it isn't a joke), that perhaps our time together should end, or atleast given an extended break. Thanks guys, it was fun.

 

[shamus63]

Don't be so quick to bail, Raz.

The pure-and-simple fact is that this is a privately-funded forum, and if there is a subject that hits a nerve, then the owner(s) and/or moderators have the right to close it.

It's not a personal attack on you; like other closed threads, it's just a sore subject.

 

[ernie1966]

Do you really think that this forum is the place to advance crackpot thoeries on terrible events? Should I post a link to a site that states the holocust never occured or that FDR new about the attack on Pearl Harbor before it happened, blah, blah, blah?

 

[shamus63]

BTW, I made it down to Ground Zero earlier this week while staying in NYC.

You get a real perspective of those events when you're standing right where it happened...looking at what equates to a giant footprint.

Just my extra .02 cents.

 

[jongitarz]

I have to agree with what Jack said when he closed the original thread. It does dishonor the people who lost their lives that day.

 

[bovinehost]

I was in no way angry about the thread.

I will gladly discuss such things in the proper place, but I don't think this is that place.

That is the only reason I shut it down. We talk music here. Once politics rears its ugly head (and it is ugly, isn't it?), things can get heated very quickly and people are offended and so on.

This is just not the place. I work very hard to NOT offend anyone and to keep things pointed in the right direction.

And I'm going to delete the thread, rather than just lock it, because it may present the original author in a light that was not his intent.

Fair enough?

Jack

 

[Big Poppa]

THis is an interesting thread. If there is something that bugs me is that I pay for bandwidth and I think some people feel that they are entitled to say anything that they want. Maybe those of you feel that its your keyboard so you should be able to steer this anyway you want really should find a more relevant forum to post non music and controversial threads. Anyone of you can strart your own forum...If you want to speculate on conspiracy theories and talk about death and destruction go for it. Dont get pissed off when it doesnt sit well with our uncompensated mods.

Bottom line this is a musical products forum. Raz you have had to pull some really over the top graphic images and done so in the spirit and now that you feel censored you dont pm the mods and talk about it, you go public with your farewell and hurt feelings. Did your post have anything to do with music? Did it have anything to do with EBMM? Did it have anything to with people on this board? Why should you expect Ernie Ball to pay for the bandwidth for that rant that has nothing to do with why we are here?

 

[fogman]

First I will assume this is not another prank and that Raz is not going on vacation again!!

I would agree that this is not the place for such things regardless of who foots the bill. There are guitar forums out there that allow discussion of such things or even have a section designated as "political party" or "sss" or whatever. This forum is different.
I do think that the confusion exist because of the fact that this forum has become more than a place to discuss our love and questions about music and EM instruments. If I had to guess, Raz is sentimentally offended because this place has become a place to talk with his EBMM "friends". Let's face it. I think some of us come here more for more than just guitars and such. Especially in the last 6 months, a lot of the people here have bonded on another level. The Open House tightened this even more for some. There are people here that contact one another aside from the forum. There are visits across country. The are personal phone calls, there are emails, etc.... There's a great spirit here and it helps reinforce the forum and the way EBMM does and runs business. I would chalk it down to a simple misunderstanding as to forgetting where we really are.
Raz, take a break but come back. This place wouldn't be the same without you!

 

[koogie2k]

Very well said foggy. I happen to be one of those that keeps in contact with several members of the forum through phonecalls and e-mails. I'm currently in Long Island and will see OC and ernie1966 this week.....can't wait!

I stay in contact and have had numerous phone calls with keith, OC, bassplayr and a few others. We need to keep the forum (as paid for by Big Poppa) on music related topics and about our favorite guitars/basses. Sometimes we go off topic but that is what makes this an interesting place. I personally did not see what was posted and I can only guess. Not a good subject here and it got deleted as it should have.

Raz, I have had some posts deleted as well. Life happens and it is up to the mods to police the forum as you well know. We even help in that realm. If you have something you want to get off your chest about events, political or not, PM me or e-mail me. I will talk about them and even give you my opinions and views.

But, here, we need to keep to the intended subject matter.

 

[edensdad]

BTW, I made it down to Ground Zero earlier this week while staying in NYC.

You get a real perspective of those events when you're standing right where it happened...looking at what equates to a giant footprint.

Just my extra .02 cents.

I was there a few months after it happened and saw it when some of the wreckage was still there. The church across the street is where I lost it - it's fence was plastered with pictures and bio's of people - put there by their families.

Too serious a matter for any attitude other than complete humility and reverence for those that lost - and rage against those that did it. Unfortunately I think too many of my countrymen have forgotten . . .

 

[shamus63]

Hey E ~ as they are now rebuilding the new Trade Center Memorial, there is a fence around the site, but you can still see the entire site from select locations.

Outside, on the subway entrance side (east side), there is a pictorial at the top of the fence of the events of that day, with a timeline of events.

You would not believe how (relatively) quiet it was at that spot, with 100-200 people standing and reading the timeline.

 

[bovinehost]

Raz, I sincerely hope you see your way clear to come on back amongst us.

No hard feelings here and I didn't intend to cause any on your end.

Or even on the parts that are not your end.

Jack

 

[shamus63]

Raz, I sincerely hope you see your way clear to come on back amongst us.

No hard feelings here and I didn't intend to cause any on your end.

Or even on the parts that are not your end.

Jack

Bet'cha he's lurking...

 

[edensdad]

Raz, I sincerely hope you see your way clear to come on back amongst us.

No hard feelings here and I didn't intend to cause any on your end.

Or even on the parts that are not your end.

Jack

Especially since I already put a deposit on my Raz Signature EBMM 7 string

 

[Raz]

Look, I really don’t feel like getting into this, but perhaps you mods can adjust things so that the next poor sap that comes along, wishing to discuss something that you feel isn’t appropriate won’t make the same mistake I did. My suggestion is changing the title and description of the thread. As it is now, it reads Current Events: What's happening in the world today?
Naturally I, and some other members, as you can see from the list I posted below, (and since there already is a General Music Discussion ) assumed this was a non-music/EBMM related area of discussion.



Katrina relief http://www.ernieball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9710

Michael Jackson not guilty. http://www.ernieball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8014

Sorrow for UK'ers and Terrorist Attack http://www.ernieball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8464

Wendy's http://www.ernieball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6936

for all of our Service men and women http://www.ernieball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5037

Tsunami Post http://www.ernieball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5691

Ohio calling.......... http://www.ernieball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4896

Eew...or ewe..whatever... http://www.ernieball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6003

about the new pope... http://www.ernieball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7262

 

[Big Poppa]

Raz
you just dont get Raz is another guy pmming me after going public with a dramatic departure because he couldnt say things that were offensive to most of us. He feels that we crimped his ability to exercise his right of free speech and I feel that our mods did their job.

Raz I told you that you are making a big deal out of it. Its one thread that didnt go over well and was deleted...a swing and a miss, apologize and get back to the biz at hand. Apparently you just cant do that.

Jaqckie delete this thread. Raz you are welcome here if you get it...

 

[shamus63]

Look, I really don’t feel like getting into this, but perhaps you mods can adjust things so that the next poor sap that comes along, wishing to discuss something that you feel isn’t appropriate won’t make the same mistake I did. My suggestion is changing the title and description of the thread. As it is now, it reads Current Events: What's happening in the world today?
Naturally I, and some other members, as you can see from the list I posted below, (and since there already is a General Music Discussion ) assumed this was a non-music/EBMM related area of discussion.

I'll give it to Raz on this point, as that forum title does open the doors to pretty much any discussion of current events. It might be best (IMHO) that this particular forum be closed, as opposed to creating a (potentially) lengthy list of guidelines.

Again, this is in my humble opinion.

Welcome back, Raz!