Question G string thinness

[Headroom]

"If this is the oft discussed weak G then I say it is not a flaw but was just another one of Leo's design quirks. Like J bass 60 Hz hum, 20 fret necks and other things Leo "built in" to his basses that make some of us scratch our heads."

I agree. Great innovation, like great art, is a sum total of ideals and idiosyncrasies.

Happy holidays everyone!

 

[Jim C]

If this is the oft discussed weak G then I say it is not a flaw but was just another one of Leo's design quirks. Like J bass 60 Hz hum, 20 fret necks and other things Leo "built in" to his basses that make some of us scratch our heads. It is what it is and you live with it or move on.
It will not be a good marketing move by EBMM to engineer it out when the target market is steeped in tradition.

I disagree that this was a design quirk based on internet postings (which could actually be true).
Depending on who you read, this weak G was not Mr. Fender's intent, and he didn't like it but didn't engineer it out prior to the company being sold.

I can understand that the Ball family may not want to spend time and money on this issue for the following reasons:
* They inherited this design and it has been very popular just as it sits
* I would assume that engineering efforts are being spent on R&D for new models or improvements to existing instruments of their own design
* The potential back lash; even if it could be resolved there will always be a number of people that will say "it's F'd up now"; probably not worth the risk

Now if the aftermarket came up with a fix that could easily be undone (pup swap, new magic preamp that sounds indetical and fixes the G, etc), well that would be a big selling item at a reasonable price point.

My rig is certainly good, but a thicker (not louder) G would be an improvement IMO/IME.

Wonder what really cuases this to happen?

 

[five7]

You got to pop that G, that is the design.

 

[drTStingray]

i think this is more of a stage eq and volume issue. Ive never come across this in recording and i dont think a musicman sounds unbalanced live when heard from the audience position. It seems to me that tweaking the mid range makes a big difference to stage audibility of the g string. Its notable when i swap from my fretless 3 band to my classic mid set that i have to boost the mid and cut the treble on the amp - this has a lot to do with the guitarists style and tone in the rock and roll band i play in. He does a lot of finger picking so some passages and notes are in the same territory as the bass notes but the guitar is more audible on the stage.

 

[Caca de Kick]

I still believe it's an amp eq issue. Having owned 25 Rays and never having a weak G, I got curious after reading these posts, and started screwing around with my amp. And while yeah I can make the G strings' frequencies drop out in a band setting, but I also didn't like the way any of my basses sounded in that setting. I eq my amp with a pretty significant bump in the mids and have never had that issue...I also don't change the eq settings for my other instruments.

 

[mynan]

Depending on who you read, this weak G was not Mr. Fender's intent, and he didn't like it but didn't engineer it out prior to the company being sold.

Now if the aftermarket came up with a fix that could easily be undone (pup swap, new magic preamp that sounds indetical and fixes the G, etc), well that would be a big selling item at a reasonable price point.

I think "engineer it out" is probably much easier said than done, mainly due to the fact that some aftermarket companies have actually managed to do it...problem is that they also managed to engineer the Stingray out of it.

 

[ptg]

i think this is more of a stage eq and volume issue. Ive never come across this in recording.

+1

I have had the "weak G" on my Rays but it is never a problem when recording. I don't know if it sounds weak to the audience, but if you raise the pup and tweak the eq, I find it is not much of an issue.

Dead spots...different conversation.....

 

[Jim C]

i think this is more of a stage eq and volume issue. Ive never come across this in recording and i dont think a musicman sounds unbalanced live when heard from the audience position.

Been thinking about this post drT and just recorded a rehearsal which for my band which is: 2 guitars, bass, drums, keys, in a room that is approx 15'x20' (band crowded into one end) with carpeted floor and finished drywall; recording is 2 PZM's though a mic pre, slight compression, and then to a CD recorder.

When standing in front of a 2x15 cabinet (loaded with Altec 421's) with an Acoustic 370 head, the thin G is much more pronounced live then on playback. The next rehearsal I used a Mesa Walkabout and the warmth of this head lessened the problem live and playback was very good.

Perhaps being right in front of my cabinet (which also occurs at small clubs or when opening for headliners) is an equal component to thin G as well as EQ.
Also have been practicing this week with a drum machine through a loud bass amp; interesting to start with seems like the PERFECT bass tone for a particular bass line, then turn on the drum machine, and suddenly hear the changes necessary to re-make it the PERFECT tone.

As with most things in life, it's all about balance and perspective

 

[slave]

You got to pop that G, that is the design.

I think this is more the thing isn't it?
Many who talk about a weak G have a completely different tone to those who pop and slap and don't see a weak G at all.

For all you guys who play rock with finger style and don't play slap at all - I understand about the lack of a "thick" G string.
I also use a tube slave - with no EQ besides the stinger.
Just the sound of the bass IME.

I have found a number of ways to slightly improve this, but I'm still not getting the D and G to stand out like I can get them to with other setups.

So it makes me wonder......is there a real difference between the 3EQ and the 2EQ preamps in regards to the lows and the highs, and the way they sound?

 

[syciprider]

The 3 EQ seems to always want to be in front while the 2 EQ can play well front or back.
Also, the 2 bander gives you all those nice SR tones with minimum fuss while the 3 bander can hit more sonic spaces.

 

[Jim C]

So it makes me wonder......is there a real difference between the 3EQ and the 2EQ preamps in regards to the lows and the highs, and the way they sound?

IMO the 3-band EQ system is not just the 2-band with an added mid freq control
I like the way the 2-band sits in the mix and (to me) is smoother in its' overall tone.
Not saying the 3-band is bad; just like the 2-band better for finger style playing in a rock or R&B context, thin G or not.
Unless it's a Classic, seems like all the SR's at my local GC have been 3-band units; while a 2-band is orderable, it looks like the factory favors production of the 3

 

[mynan]

it looks like the factory favors production of the 3

Keep in mind that the factory only produces what is ordered by the customer.

 

[xparis001]

i think the people having this problem are probably eqing themselves with the onboard EQ down low, then wondering where their G string went. its silly to me. I've never had this problem. its the nature of the EQ i think.

try this at home with a 3 band.

play E flat - good. drop mids to 0. bad. boost bass. good!
play A flat - good. drop mids to 0. bad. boost bass. good!
play D flat - good. drop mids to 0. bad. boost bass. good!
play G flat - good. drop mids to 0. bad. boost bass. OMG WHERE"S MY G!!

turn the treble all the way up. play g. OH THERE IT IS!

sorry for billy mays mode, but I've been playing music man basses for 20 years, and I get this at least once a month. some jerk at a gig comes up and says "hey how's your G string." hmm. maybe it's the clubs I play....

 

[Caca de Kick]

I agree with you xparis. I've had many and no problems, and occasionally run across someone who's only owned one and mentions an issue. For gigs I always bring a StingRay and a brand-X british made bass, and the G's on both have same loud and clear volumes. So it isn't the Ray....

 

[meeder2]

Yea, all my G strings are thinner than the others.... but not sonically.
I had a pro setup on my SR5 and couldn't be happier.
I've owned Wal Basses that had a louder G string than the others
AND lousy sustain with serious deadspot issues.
Whatever it is, get it set up properly, it could be a simple fret and nut filing fix.

 

[Jim C]

Keep in mind that the factory only produces what is ordered by the customer.

My bad; I thought that the factory produces a number of standard basses that they ship to dealers; I was not aware that each dealer ordered a particular set of options in advance for each bass in inventory; thanks for the correction

 

[strummer]

I play fingerstyle rock, and not one of my basses has any issue whatsoever with the G string. On the contrary, they are all extremely well balanced across the strings.

 

[Headroom]

it looks like the factory favors production of the 3

Yes, but this may be because either: a) that is what the majority of customers want, or b) the sonic differences between the 2-band and 3-band are small enough to make the two models essentially substitutable for the majority of customers.

Reinvestment of income from product sales enables production, and if the product mix produced by the factory is not a function of aggregate customer demand, sales will suffer. Thus it would unreasonable for a firm not to maximize sales/profits by satisfying their customers’ demand.

 

[Big Poppa]

....WE make each and every instrument to order either the dealers spec or a customers....I have said this a zillion times. so all of the deep thinking is malarkey....Guess what we have the two band always available and pushed it heavily and the three band is the pre amp of choice....

watch those factory tour videos that are on here from premier guitar its shows in detail how we do it

 

[Psycho Ward]

I've been to the factory and seen it for myself. I saw actual human beings building them, very talented people with sandpaper, saws and other tools. I own several and they were built for ME! They will build you one too!