Help! Guitar techs, help! Dissonance on a single string (JP6)

[Enc3f4L0]

to be honest, i kind of accept it for what it is. i am considering moving to drop C/B tuning tho. i might get something with a longer scale to accommodate lower tunings. if you want to read more about the adventures ppl encounter with not-even-slinkies, give the string forum a reading, plenty of info there iirc.

I would accept it if the dissonance wasn't so bizarre. Like I said, on the lead channel (which I'm playin on most of the time) it's unusable. It sounds like the guitar is constantly out of tune.

Just checked this thread on the strings forum:
http://www.ernieball.com/forums/ern...ot-even-slinky-strings-giving-me-problem.html

His problem seem identical to mine. Was this the thread you were reffering to?

Maybe this string is in fact too damn thick. At least for my plans to use it on a C-Standard tuning.

Anyone using C-Standard have any success stories with a specific set of strings. I don't wanna have to mix and match from different packs everytime I restring my instruments (if this is in fact what's causing the dissonance).

 

[Red Scare]

I've run into this before. Since you are hearing it on fretted notes, it has to be caused by the pickups (unlikely) or the bridge (most likely).
Lower the poles on the pickups for that string to see if the reduction in the magnetic flux makes it go away. If you don't get any relief, then you need to look closely at the saddle.
A likely cause is that the string is touching the saddle in two spots (if it is really low, it can actually cause the string touch the front and back of the saddle when it vibrates). Here is what you can try, Lower the entire bridge a bit using the fulcrum screws in the body (make sure to keep it level), then raise the saddle back up to specs. This will put more downward force on the string.
If that fails, it may be the intonation. If the saddle is way forward (which the G-string often is) then there isn't as much downward force again. This is a tougher fix. Your only real option is to switch to a heavier guage string which should cause you to need to move the saddle back to reset the intonation. If possible, post a close up picture of your bridge.

 

[Dante]

that's one of the threads, although there was some technical info on how an instruments scale affects the intonation somewhere else.

 

[DCStingray]

I thought I should point out that since you're already using Not Even Slinkys, you won't be able to go up in string gauge for your plain as mentioned by Red Scare. If you want to try going up in gauge, you'll need to use a wound string. This isn't necessarily a fix, but it would be helpful for trying to troubleshoot what's causing this. We'll figure this out

 

[Red Scare]

Every issue I've ever seen dealing with the G string is due to the use of an unwound string. The physics of that particular string make it a real mother to deal with. When you tune way down the issue just becomes worse as the problem on any guitar is that there isn't enough tension on it.
This could create another problem though as it may start to bind at the nut.
If I can see a picture of the bridge, I may be able to rule this out.
Beyond that, I would have to look at it directly.

 

[maxim]

Let me be "wise": how about swapping the positions of the saddle ....

 

[cm_17]

The pickup height is not "fixed" but can be lowered. I ran into similar problems before and it was, to join the choir, often either the pickup being too high (screw it further down as the string has more amplitude swing) or the saddle having an issue (bad string alignment, any loose part), or the trem providing some kind of vibration due to resonance (block the trem with a piece of wood, cork, or similar, also try to block the springs with cotton, or similar).

 

[TheShreddinHand]

The pickup height is not "fixed" but can be lowered. I ran into similar problems before and it was, to join the choir, often either the pickup being too high (screw it further down as the string has more amplitude swing) or the saddle having an issue (bad string alignment, any loose part), or the trem providing some kind of vibration due to resonance (block the trem with a piece of wood, cork, or similar, also try to block the springs with cotton, or similar).

JP guitar's pickups are as low as they can go from the factory. Can't lower em'.

-Eric

 

[straycat113]

Thiago first off considering living with would not be an option for a nano second. Have you tried tuning to 440 and putting on a standard set of strings to see how it plays as I would be interested in those results.If there is no change I fully agree with beej and just wait to see what options CS gives as they will figure out the issue. Good luck.

 

[DCStingray]

In regards to string tension, I wouldn't worry about the string tension being too low. Your 24p tuned to Eb would be almost 20lbs which is higher than a G-string from Power Slinkys at standard tuning. In fact, your 24p will have the highest tension on the set.

 

[Spudmurphy]

Interesting thread.

My query is how can you "lower" the pickup on a JP when the pickup dog ears are screwed directly to the floor of the pickup route. I know that you can make the pickups higher via packing but lowering? - I can't see it unless I'm missing something? I do however realise that the separate pole magnets can be pressed down lower within the pickup windings.

 

[Enc3f4L0]

As far as I know, these pickups are as low as they'll go on the JP.

Unfortunately I don't have any other strings available to try out other than a few packs of Regular Slinkys.
I don't think I've ever seen anything in stores around here other than the Regular set. I'd have to order and play the waiting game if I decide to put on "Beefy slinky", "Skinny Top, Heavy Bottom", "Power Slinky" for example.

I could try the regular .17 G string, but that's so thin it would be so loose in relation to the others, that it might be impossible to rule out the string gauge option.
I could also try the .26 wound "D" string from the regular set, but that is even thicker than the 24p.

I'll try blocking the bridge somehow, but I have a strong feeling it really does have to do with the thick plain string (you can feel it's so much stiffer than all the others when you mess around with them when they're not installed).

 

[Enc3f4L0]

Thiago first off considering living with would not be an option for a nano second. Have you tried tuning to 440 and putting on a standard set of strings to see how it plays as I would be interested in those results.If there is no change I fully agree with beej and just wait to see what options CS gives as they will figure out the issue. Good luck.

The guitar did come in standard E tuning, with a pack of Regular Slinky.
The thing is, I don't remember if it had this issue with that setup. It definitely didn't grab my attention at that time if it was already there, but then again, I barely played it with that set, and the strings were pretty old anyway (it had been kept stored for a while until I made the trip to fetch it). I probably barely played that string at first now that I think of it, I was mostly having fun chuggin away at the lower strings, jammin on a few heavier songs with my brother on bass.

As soon as I got home, I put on the Not Even Slinky, tuned it to C-Standard and made minor adjustments to the setup. That`s when I noticed the issue (I had a lot of time to play around now), but I just thought it was the guitar adjusting itself to the new gauge. I do remember thinking the G string was a little "weird" when I first took it off the paper wrapping, but I was new to the "Not Even Slinky".

 

[Enc3f4L0]

I found a pack of 'Super Slinky 7' lying around and grabbed the wound .24 to try out.
Bingo! Dissonance gone!

I was thinking it would feel very strange to play a wound string as the "G" (Eb). It does feel a bit strange, it has a different tone to it and bending is different, but not as much as I imagined. I could definitely get used to it for the C-Standard guitar.

Too bad the "Not Even Slinky" doesn't come with a wound .24. I'd love to be able to buy a pack and be done with it, instead of having to mix and match.

I'm relieved it wasn't something wrong with the guitar, and am quite pleased with how the .24w is sounding, but I wonder how a thinner plain string would compare.

 

[TheShreddinHand]

Good ending! Glad you got it figured out Thiago!

-Eric

 

[straycat113]

Thiago at least you have piece of mind and know what the problem is, for now you will just have to go old school (before EB strings)and mix and match.

 

[Enc3f4L0]

Thank you all for showing up on this thread and taking the time to help me figure this out, and also to A.J. from CS who has been very helpful and extremely fast in replying to my emails.

I find it kinda funny I haven't read/heard about this phenomenon before. I thought the "Not Even Slinky" was the go-to set for a C-Standard tuning. Are there just not that many players around here using this tuning, or am I too picky and the phenomenon bothered me much more than it did anyone else???

 

[Sticky1973]

What is good for me is that you have taken the pain ahead of me doing something similar!

I have toyed with the idea of a new nut cut for C tuning (or even B tuning for the lower six of a seven set) for some time, but never quite got round to doing it.

How do you find the feel/tension on the G (Eb) with wound and plain?

 

[Enc3f4L0]

What is good for me is that you have taken the pain ahead of me doing something similar!

I have toyed with the idea of a new nut cut for C tuning (or even B tuning for the lower six of a seven set) for some time, but never quite got round to doing it.

How do you find the feel/tension on the G (Eb) with wound and plain?

Glad to be of help...

The 24p feels very stiff. The 24w feels a bit more like the other strings, much nicer. It's like a "lighter" D string...
It's kinda funny though, cuz like I said, I'm used to hearing a certain tone quality from that string, and the wound has a "raspier" (for the lack of a better term) sound than the plain. Bending is a tad bit harder on the wound, but not much of a problem also. I could easily get used to this set.

I have no idea where the 24p might be useful, but in this guitar/tuning combination it's simply unusable if you are half serious about the music you're playing (IMO).

 

[Dante]

Petrucci uses a gauge 0.20 for his G string on C tunings. as for the utility of not-even-slinkies? they were made with standard tension measurements in mind. they kind that won't *%$# your neck if you use the same set forever. the problem with the plain 24 is really something that can't be fixed. if you turn it into a wound string, people will stop seeing it as a normal 6 string set. i guess EB could lower the gauge on the G string and adjust the rest of the strings to compensate, but that would probably result in a set with weird tension scaling across the fingerboard.