Help Big Poppa...Want your opinion

[syciprider]

(El Plano GC)
The blurbs about the experts didn't tell me much about bass in general nor Music Man products in particular, however it is nice to know a little bit about the the person for when I visit the store to purchase.

 

[bovinehost]

Cayenne pepper is a term I use for the diehards...they are intense and dont represent the average buyer

It took me a while to really understand what you meant with that when I first heard it, but it's true. It seems hard to imagine that a bassist in today's world wouldn't be at least minimally engaged with some of the more active bass-centric forums and/or the internet in general, but it's true: they are not.

Anyway, I like the idea of finding someone who knows what they're talking about via the GC website. With this group, I think what we're really saying is that we want someone who knows as much as we do about Music Man basses and that might be asking a bit too much, all things considered. We ARE The Cayenne Pepper! We tend to focus on one brand, even if some of us have multiple instruments from other manufacturers. The average sales associate at GC is bound to be bombarded on a daily basis about simply everything. So it's a broad familiarization versus intimate knowledge. (I'm reminding our own group about what to expect ala BP.)

We also tend to have advance information about models/features that haven't even been produced yet.

Anyway, one thing I would change is how the profiles are presented. Casual and friendly is good but maybe some specialization would help. Perhaps there IS one guy who knows Fender guitars inside and out? Or, even better, one who keeps up with Music Man? That would be good to know, especially with this group.

Thanks so much, Greg, for giving us a listen.

Jack

 

[Big Poppa]

I say it all the time to anyone who will listen in our company or when I speak to groups...You have to know and understand your product. There is NO downside to knowing at least as much as your most sophisticated customer....you only have to pull out enough knowledge to win ...to pair the customer with the right tool....I summarize it always by saying "Would you go to a Doctor who knew less than you?"

 

[Oldtoe]

Welcome, Greg! Marty is a very friendly fellow, and I'm very happy to have gotten to sit and talk to him on a couple of occasions. Good luck in your position with Guitar Center, and welcome to the Ernie Ball/Music Man inner cloister.

 

[ptg]

Great thread - Thanks for listening, Greg!

Some of this has already been said...

1. I think this will go over better with the younger crowd who are very internet/device based.

2. Definitely would be happier with a "Bass" tab. It drives me crazy that most stores have kids who can play guitar and tell me the history of the whammy bar but don't know the difference between a passive Fender and a Bongo.

3. What constitutes an expert? Do the salespeople go to any seminars where they can receive certification? Is there any kind of testing they must undergo? I found some of the people in my store who are listed in the guitar/bass section also come up in the P.A./Live sound section. Those are 2 completely different worlds and I would be surprised if there were that many employees (and young ones at that) who had an intricate knowledge of both.

4. Would it entice me to buy at GC? Not sure... If I could have easy access (without being a pain) to a salesperson and develop a relationship with him/her through email, I probably would be inclined to go that person once a level of trust developed.

Of course, all of this is just window dressing if the store doesn't carry the products I need or take care of me once I'm physically there looking to buy.

My 2 cents...

 

[Hotrodred]

I used the "Find an Expert" feature in reverse. I had shopped online for my second Stingray and found it at the Manhattan GC store. When I called to inquire, the sales person was friendly and helpful. My longtime "go-to" guy at the Brooklyn store had moved on to another job, so I was left wondering who I would find to help me with my future purchases. I had a very pleasant experience. After a couple of weeks, I was looking for some accessories. I looked up the staff of the Manhattan store because I couldn't remember the salesman's name. The information helped me find the salesman who had been helpful and who I wanted to deal more with in the future. It definitely helps personalize the store.

 

[Big Poppa]

great point Hotrod!

 

[Freddels]

I don't expect the sales associates at GC to know everything about Musicman or any brand or product. But, they should know enough to be able to talk about the product and most importantly . . . don't try to BS us b/c we usually do know the product.

I was in one day just chatting with my friend who's the manager of the guitar dept. I was looking at all the guitars on the wall and just casually asked about the difference in price of some of the Les Pauls. He went into great detail about the differences, pickups, finish, hardware, etc. He really knows guitars. It's good to have someone with that knowledge. He's not quite the expert on basses but that's ok, he can't know everything.

 

[adouglas]

don't try to BS us b/c we usually do know the product.

This. I have zero tolerance for that kind of thing.

It's a personal thing with the salesperson, though. Has nothing to do with the company. When I worked retail long ago I took pride in knowing my product and engaging with customers as you describe.

Making manufacturer-specific product knowledge a certification criterion would be a really cool thing. Maybe have an overall "specialist" standard for guitar or bass with an additional "master" level in one or more manufacturers.

Geez, sounds like merit badges. heh.

If I knew that a guy had demonstrated mastery of my favorite brand I'd likely seek him/her out to share knowledge.

 

[J Romano]

Welcome Greg. I think this is a great advantage for your site, where it will be most useful is for new customers going to an unfamiliar store. Like visiting a store while on vacation in another city, or finding used equipment at an unfamiliar store. You can read about who you can talk to (along with a picture), make it more personal! I used the site by using my zipcode and saw my friends at the Rochester GC, even learned a few things about them I didn't know..... One thing I would like to mention to you is that when I was looking for a Bongo, the sales associate (Danielle) I was working with went totally out of her way to daily check your used listing for me until she found one as soon as it came in. Her persistence made the sale. She has since been made an Assistance Manager, great choice! This is what I have found in the excellent staff in Rochester, from recording to hardware.

 

[Davecg2]

First off, I want to start by saying I love the Indianapolis (Castleton) GC. When purchasing my dream MarkBass rig they were insanely patient and very understanding when I wanted to swap out an amp head or two because I wasn't really satisfied with it. Beyond that, they tend to recognize me which always makes the customer feel valued and they are always very polite. They also recently sponsored our NYE show and raffled off an acoustic guitar at midnight which I thought was just awesome. Keep up the good work!

Now for the website. I'm probably slightly more critical about websites than most as I'm a professional Web Developer but I will keep it 100% constructive since I'm not bidding on the job myself .

Likes:
1. Easy access to store address, hours and phone
2. Quick access to store inventory via the "Browse Store Inventory" feature (I really like this feature and I may be wrong but it looks like they revamped the used gear search which I think has been less than great for a long time)

Dislike:
1. Associates expertise should not combine basses with guitars (or my GC has no bass expert). This one is big to me as I personally don't want a guitar player advising me on basses, for reasons I'm sure everyone in this section of the forum understands.
2. Ads at the top, if this feature is to help me with store info put the associates widget at the top or at very least make the ads much smaller.

Meh:
1. I don't think people will care about individual store blogs
2. Photos are nice, but not really useful

Overall I like it, I wouldn't expect a huge shift in the way people shop on GC.com but it's definitely a useful little page. All that said, to me nothing beats being able to go in to my local GC and touch and feel all the gear.

 

[Freddels]

This. I have zero tolerance for that kind of thing.

It's a personal thing with the salesperson, though. Has nothing to do with the company. When I worked retail long ago I took pride in knowing my product and engaging with customers as you describe.

Making manufacturer-specific product knowledge a certification criterion would be a really cool thing. Maybe have an overall "specialist" standard for guitar or bass with an additional "master" level in one or more manufacturers.

Geez, sounds like merit badges. heh.

If I knew that a guy had demonstrated mastery of my favorite brand I'd likely seek him/her out to share knowledge.

My wife works in retail. She sells fragrances. She's certified by a national organization. She's like a walking encyclopedia with fragrances and does very well in sales b/c of her knowledge. Certifications can be a good thing (if they require actual knowledge).

 

[boombox]

** If this airs out to much inside GC info BP or Greg please delete and let me know**

I want to start off by saying hello to you all, its been awhile since I have logged on to the forum. Also, I want to say, out the gate, that I am a current employee of an independent music store and I LOVE GUITAR CENTER. Yes you read that correct. This company nearly single handily drives and grows this industry which is great for all involved whether you are a big box or a mom and pop.

This thread really hits home for me... I am a “recent” former Guitar Center employee who worked as a sales guy all the way up to a Sales Manager in just a short years time.

That being said, on the employee side of things.... GC can come at you real fast. You either figure it out fast (type 1) and excel quick or you “hate the man” (type 2) and just hang around to collect a check, have health insurance and drive the people that are trying to better themselves and the company insane. Lucky for me I think the ATL store where I worked had more type 1 employees than type 2

I think often customers get hit with type 2’s and don’t seek out a real expert sales guy, trust me they are out there in GC land! But the problem is getting the “right guys” in front of the “right customers” that are the real buyers of nice gear.

The “certification” process is, eh, good not great. I honestly learned a lot from it, but what did I learn you ask..?? I learned how to date Fenders and Gibsons and the difference in 20 Line 6 models and how to work a Fender Mustang amp and what year PRS started making guitars....etc. Some of it was very useful but the majority of it I never used. Not to mention as a sales guy it was forced upon me and as a Manager I was the bad guy and was forced to force it upon everyone else.... kinda counter productive as I know most guys just “cheated” or asked other sales guys the answers.

What was great was actual product training from an actual expert! We had a guy from Gibson come in one day and talk to us about new models.... it was awesome..... but those sessions were few and far between. GC claimed them to be to expensive... having to pay an entire department (15 max in guitar land) and extra hour of pay a week and potentially overtime. *Glen for EBMM did come in once and I was able to spend a few minutes with him but it was during the day so my time was limited.

I had a District Manager approach me once about going around and teaching other Guitar guys in the ATL metro area about Music Man guitar models. I was 100% up for it, actually excited... I breathe Music Man.... i’d love to share my knowledge and experience with others in hope to give customers a better buying experience when shopping for a Music Man ..... this never happened!

**HERE IS THE MEAT**

I don’t think I would be stretching the truth when I say that while at The Perfect Bass I sold over 80 Music Man instruments a year, many of these sales were to you guys on the forum! Why did you buy from me? .. not because you could see a picture of me next to a list of qualifications in which the weight of my knowledge is still unknown. I believe that you made purchase from me because someone told you to call or you picked up the phone and found someone on the other end that was as passionate or if not more passionate about getting you the RIGHT piece of gear for the job then possible even yourself.

In my year at GC I think I sold no more than 8 Music Man products ... did I show off one every opportunity I had, you bet I did ... but the right person wasn't in front of the right customers.

Do I believe that there is a true Bass or Music Man “Expert” at every GC... not a chance! But I bet that there are plenty others out there like me that are passionate or may be (and I use this term lightly for myself) “True Experts” for particular brands.

If only GC had a network to tap into these experts and use there knowledge nation wide! That could be huge! (Of course the logistic of this would create nightmares and the end result would probably be a group of A+ level sales guys getting used and abused on the phone all day.)

My final thought is for GC to find there “True Experts” and get them in front of the customers. Not the “Experts” that some multiple choice certification tells you are experts but the real experts that are experts in the eyes of there co-workers and managers. The go to guys when the veteran type 2 employee doesn't know the difference in a Sterling and a StingRay (I was actually told by a co-worker the the only difference in the 4 string was the “little switch thingy”) Wow... and if he can cheat on a multiple choice test he is listed as an expert on the website..... do you really want to waste your time talking to that guy??????

Thanks for reading my inside and outside opinion.

-bb

 

[oddjob]

I don’t think I would be stretching the truth when I say that while at The Perfect Bass I sold over 80 Music Man instruments a year, many of these sales were to you guys on the forum! Why did you buy from me? .. not because you could see a picture of me next to a list of qualifications in which the weight of my knowledge is still unknown. I believe that you made purchase from me because someone told you to call or you picked up the phone and found someone on the other end that was as passionate or if not more passionate about getting you the RIGHT piece of gear for the job then possible even yourself.

Personally, I bought from you because when I called, you were passionate. You had the answers to my questions and when you didn't - you didn't bs me... you took the time to find out. That counts for a lot. I love my local GC... but I don't see that attitude towards bass very often (there were a few guys but they are since gone)... guitars, yes, effects, yes, drums, yes... basses no. I realize that the basses take up about an eighth of the inventory that guitars do at my GC but there is money to be made there too. The GC site helps a bit with that but I see it as more a "tech" fix to a "human" problem. It is a start but needs "something."

 

[Golem]

`


Being who we happen to be, here on the MM bass forum, maybe
we fail to evaluate the GC site upgrades [?] in a truly real world
context. GC can deal only with whatever traffic is available. At
my local, in Albany NY, the bass room is essentially starters and
"next step" [1st step up], with maybe just 6 or 8 USA Fenders
and EBMMs [combined, not each brand !].

Many of the noob shoppers cannot play !?!?!?! They are junior
geetards and just rip at the bass strings cuz they've kinda seen
thar done somewheres. Staying in business means realizing that
these kids are your primary market. Our local music marketplace
includes one thriving, very excellent, musician-owned shop which
kinda means that GC isn't gonna get most of the players who are
similar to those on this forum. Sure, they get some, but not enuf
to justify upgrading the bass inventory. That HAS been tried BTW.
I got many tasty "dep clearance" priced basses as a result ;-)

So, the sorry selection for 4-figure basses at the local GC is not
[farz I can see] the GC management agenda, it's just a response
to local conditions.

Albany is one of those towns that gets used for national market
test for arious consumer products. IOW, we are considered very
representative as an accurate sample of the national or regional
market scene overall. Therefor, I suspect that very many GCs
mirror our local inventory. Not wonderful news, just reality.



` `

 

[Freddels]

I purchased from ThePerfectBass for a number of reasons. First, I know that the instrument pictured (and the pictures are great) is the exact one that will be sent. They don't try to hide any flaws or damage and will point them out if they exist and mark down the price accordingly. Second, they don't try to sell a used bass as new. Again, they disclose everything. Third, they list the weight. Albeit, it's a little off but relatively close. Fourth, the customer service is there if you need it. Generally, I know what I want when I decide to contact them. Fifth, there is a very decent discount given.

 

[gtrojan]

Thanks everyone For the warm welcome and passionate feedback. Incredibly helpful.

 

[Holdsg]

Don't be a stranger, Greg. You may not always like what you hear from this impassioned community, but we represent a large amount of disposable income spent on music gear on an annual basis. We're passionate, and don't filter it. There's a lot of value we can share with you about your business as core consumers.

 

[captcolour]

I think the ask an expert is a little misleading like others have alluded to. Perhaps "meet your local staff" or something like that would be more appropriate. On the details side, if you click the expert button and you haven't selected your home store, it should take you to selecting the store first instead of some random store. I got Davenport, IA even though I'm in KY near the Florence store. That would have frustrated me and probably would have stopped me from using this feature.

Because you may not have a "bass expert" at every store, concentrating on brand awareness/knowledge may be more important than seeing that so-and-so plays bass. I'm going to play the bass anyway and not rely on their playing ability. Having company/product knowledge rather than playing experience is way more important in my opinion.

Sort of a double-edged sword perhaps, but when I went to the associates info, would have been cool to see what gear the individual person owns. If a particular store had a bass player that listed they owned XYZ gear (that I may not care for) and a guitar associate who owned some vintage guitar gear, I may be more inclined to deal with the guy who owns vintage gear because our overall gear interests may be more similar.

 

[Smallmouth_Bass]

Being from Canada, finding an expert is probably not as useful to me (it brought me to Syracuse, which is fairly close, considering). Some of the bios were quite short (two sentences) and didn't really give me any insight on the person being introduced, so it almost has a feel of "they're making me do this" more than "I can help you out". I guess it would help you find out the names of the employees, which might be somewhat useful.

I would agree with many stating that I would prefer to deal with someone well versed in bass rather than guitar.

I think it's extremely important for the personnel to know the products they sell well. I can't tell you how often I have heard salesmen give wrong information or just make it up on the gear they are selling. I would rather get an "I don't know" than poor or incorrect information. Just liking music and playing an instrument is not enough to be a salesperson; you have to do your homework (or get appropriately trained). They have the same resources that I do, and I can get a lot of information on the internet, so it's not all that difficult to keep on top of things.

The other thing I think is very important is that the salesperson really needs to be able to listen to their customers' needs and help them to find the right equipment for them, rather than push a certain brand or sell what's hot (or has the highest commission or the store has too much stock of). I've always appreciated a no pressure approach and even if I don't buy at that moment, I'll more than likely go back.

I generally do my research before making most purchases. I'll try and source it locally first, then I will resort to online buying. I would say I buy a fair amount from both and there are a lot of options these days, so if you can't stand out in some way (usually in pricing and/or a high level of service), I will generally go elsewhere.