Help me EQ my Bongo - soundman likes the floor to shake

[shakinbacon]

I realize I don't have control of the FOH, but having the bass prominent in the mix is a nice change and I want to explore this new phenomena by EQ'ing the Bongo. The soundman likes to "feel" the bass, but I want to also hear the notes - even the ones on the D and G strings

Sooo... I want to try and EQ my bass with the onboard EQ to get both a solid bottom and note definition to present to the soundman. What he does with the signal is up to him (I respect that he has a job to do), but I want to get something a little closer to what he and I want.

Here's what I came up with so far going into a Flat EQ amp (or mixer into headphones). Please let me know what you think

Bongo 5HHp with coated Slinkies

All knobs at center detent except for:
30% boost Low mids
20% boost Hi mids
20% boost bass

This isn't super rumbly. In fact it has a lot of mids and definition (the piezo is a big factor) but has bottom as well.

Thanks for your input

 

[cellkirk74]

The bass boost may already be too much, depending on the overall volume, the pa system used and the sound of the room.

 

[Kamakiriad]

Low mids = money knob for me.

 

[adouglas]

My $0.02:

Leave the room shaking entirely to him. That's what FOH is for. Get the stage tone the way you want it.

I can't stand having too much bass in my ear. It's fatiguing, it's muddy, and I can't hear what the heck I'm doing.

Room-shaking bass is vastly overrated IMHO. Too much muchness. Our job is not to make the ceiling tiles fall... it's to support the singers and melody instruments. Going BOOM BOOM BOOM all the time gets in the way.

Because of the music my band plays I listen to old tracks a lot, and some of the best ones have such subtle bass that you don't even notice it's there.

 

[shakinbacon]

My $0.02:

Leave the room shaking entirely to him. That's what FOH is for. Get the stage tone the way you want it.

I can't stand having too much bass in my ear. It's fatiguing, it's muddy, and I can't hear what the heck I'm doing.

Room-shaking bass is vastly overrated IMHO. Too much muchness. Our job is not to make the ceiling tiles fall... it's to support the singers and melody instruments. Going BOOM BOOM BOOM all the time gets in the way.

Because of the music my band plays I listen to old tracks a lot, and some of the best ones have such subtle bass that you don't even notice it's there.

Good points. I'm not a big fan of boom boom boom either

However I find the room sound affects what I play since the stage reverberates. I'll just get used to it I guess

 

[five7]

What kind of music are you playing? That will make a difference If you have a long speaker cable, set your amp out by FOH and adjust it and your bongo to the tone that fits the music. I have a 50' nuetrix speaker cable that I used once to dial in a better tone at soundcheck. Until I did that I was only going by my stage sound. And guess what, I turned up low and high mids on my rig and the clarity improved greatly. After soundcheck I moved my amp back on stage and went with those settings. If you have a wireless it will be easier to do. Make sure the soundman understands what type of sound you and your band wants. If he doesn't or won't do it that way, replace him.

 

[dmarotta]

Get a wireless system. Go out to the FOH at soundcheck and hear for yourself what your bass sound is. Then you will know what to eq. I do this all the time when we have a different sound mixer. You have to be diplomatic with the mixer ,but in reality he is working for you and should oblige your requests.

 

[Manfloozy]

Boom + Clarity

Boost Bass to Taste
Cut a Little Low Mid to deMud
Boost Hi-Mid for Clarity
Cut a bit o treble to taste


YMMV but I've liked this combo for a deep bottom that isn't too muddy.

 

[shakinbacon]

Boom + Clarity

Boost Bass to Taste
Cut a Little Low Mid to deMud
Boost Hi-Mid for Clarity
Cut a bit o treble to taste


YMMV but I've liked this combo for a deep bottom that isn't too muddy.

After talking with the soundman, I think he is using a more extreme version of this.

He's cutting ~250Hz
Boosting ~ 3KHz

and giving a lot of juice to the subwoofer

 

[five7]

After talking with the soundman, I think he is using a more extreme version of this.

He's cutting ~250Hz
Boosting ~ 3KHz

and giving a lot of juice to the subwoofer

And it's not working? Boosting 3k is going to create a lot of clack. And cutting at 250, you are loosing low mids. All wrong! Have him try the opposite when the whole band is playing. It is easy to get boom, make him work for his money and give you clarity. Worst case, insert a 1/3 octave eq on your bass channel and then if you can't get a tone, something is very wrong!

 

[keko]

After talking with the soundman, I think he is using a more extreme version of this.

He's cutting ~250Hz
Boosting ~ 3KHz

and giving a lot of juice to the subwoofer

OMG, what kind of PA system he's running?, ...and what is this space like where You are giggin'?

 

[shakinbacon]

OMG, what kind of PA system he's running?, ...and what is this space like where You are giggin'?

he he he

Its an elementary school auditorium used for church services (contemporary worship songs - think U2 and you get the general idea)

He admitted he didn't like the sound too much and was experimenting.

I tend to like the low mids myself

 

[oli@bass]

I think you should rather tweak the soundman instead of the eq.

 

[Double Agent]

Don't bag the low mids!!!!!! The bass control will turn your tone into mud long before the low mids ever will.

Seriously, the bass control is cool, but the Bongo has so much low end that I have a hard imagining situations where it should be boosted more than a hair past center (an obvious exception for single H Bongos, or times when your are soloing the bridge p/u on an HS/HH model and even then, just a little bass boost goes a really long way).

In most systems, the kick drum is going to dominate everything below 80hz, so if you are boosting the bass at those frequencies, they will just be way too much competition going on in the speakers. Boosting too much low end will also prevent him from being able to really crank your bass as you will run out of headroom and start clipping faster with the super low frequencies. So, your best bet is to boost your low mids to taste for your onstage tone, then have the soundman start boosting the EQ on the board at about 100-250 hz on the board and go from there. Generally, if you are boosting/butting more than 6db at the board, it would be wise to have another look at the signal your sending to the board.

 

[shakinbacon]

Don't bag the low mids!!!!!! The bass control will turn your tone into mud long before the low mids ever will.

Seriously, the bass control is cool, but the Bongo has so much low end that I have a hard imagining situations where it should be boosted more than a hair past center (an obvious exception for single H Bongos, or times when your are soloing the bridge p/u on an HS/HH model and even then, just a little bass boost goes a really long way).

I totally agree on the bass control's usage. I'm going back to my "boost low mids and add piezo" sound

 

[strummer]

All knobs at center detent except for:
30% boost Low mids
20% boost Hi mids
20% boost bass

Since the filters on most instruments are pretty wide-band, having a roll-off @ 6 dB/octave, you might as well do this:

10% boost lo mid
20% cut treble

 

[keko]

In most systems, the kick drum is going to dominate everything below 80hz, so if you are boosting the bass at those frequencies, they will just be way too much competition going on in the speakers.

+1

Setup of kick drum & electric bass (doublebass) is half of the final sound check!

I'm always losing a half of the sound check time for setting up exactly that!
Everything else is going twice faster!

 

[shakinbacon]

Since the filters on most instruments are pretty wide-band, having a roll-off @ 6 dB/octave, you might as well do this:

10% boost lo mid
20% cut treble

I will try it, but I don't understand your reasoning. Why would having wide band filters lead to those settings? Please clarify while I shake my house

 

[ivbenaplayin]

don't bag the low mids!!!!!! The bass control will turn your tone into mud long before the low mids ever will.

Seriously, the bass control is cool, but the bongo has so much low end that i have a hard imagining situations where it should be boosted more than a hair past center (an obvious exception for single h bongos, or times when your are soloing the bridge p/u on an hs/hh model and even then, just a little bass boost goes a really long way).

In most systems, the kick drum is going to dominate everything below 80hz, so if you are boosting the bass at those frequencies, they will just be way too much competition going on in the speakers. Boosting too much low end will also prevent him from being able to really crank your bass as you will run out of headroom and start clipping faster with the super low frequencies. So, your best bet is to boost your low mids to taste for your onstage tone, then have the soundman start boosting the eq on the board at about 100-250 hz on the board and go from there. Generally, if you are boosting/butting more than 6db at the board, it would be wise to have another look at the signal your sending to the board.

^^^^^this^^^^^

 

[strummer]

I will try it, but I don't understand your reasoning. Why would having wide band filters lead to those settings? Please clarify while I shake my house

Well, when boosting three out of four bands you effectrively just crank the volume up further. And since the Bongo has a healthy output as it is you will have more headroom if you cut some and just boost a little.
The bands are so wide that if you crank them all you have basically just turned the vilume up about 15 dB (measured there are dips between the bands, but only a couple dB's).

So with my suggestion you will get the same sound, only a little less loud, but you will win as much in headroom making your bass sound better