Hey BP - Why No Pleck Machine?

[Jim C]

Not that you guys don't perform 1st class fret work and set ups, but thinking that it might lower building costs.

I'm sure you have considered this (anybody that thought up Big Al is clearly a progressive thinker), but wondered if you will head this direction in the future

 

[sitonmybass]

A Plek (proper spelling) machine is an extremely expensive piece of equipment. There's no telling how much expense in terms of "man-hour" wages a company would have to save due to having/using one in order to justify the expense of such a piece of equipment.

And yes, EBMM does stellar fret/neck work.

 

[TNT]

The "plek" topic!! Yes, they are very expensive.

 

[keko]

Could You guys please explain to "I Tarzan" what's this Pleck/Plek machine "thing"?

 

[guenter]

This machine is for fret fine(est)-tuning (levelling) with an accuracy of 1/100mm and taking into account the different vibration characteristics of all strings.

I don't think that Joe Average will see a before/after difference on a perfectly setup instrument, IMHO.

 

[Jim C]

A Plek (proper spelling) machine is an extremely expensive piece of equipment. There's no telling how much expense in terms of "man-hour" wages a company would have to save due to having/using one in order to justify the expense of such a piece of equipment.

And yes, EBMM does stellar fret/neck work.

Having owned a manufacturing company many years ago, I can tell you that the calculation to determine the pay back time, vs. cost of money, vs. labor savings (including overhead expense), vs. etc. is not difficult at all

For example, let's assume that a company makes 200 intruments a week for 50 weeks a year and then sells these 10,000 intruments for an average price of $1,500 which would make gross sales $15,000,000.

Now let's assume a Plek machine costs $200,000 and has a life span of 5 years; if it could do the work of 2 men that were paid $40K each, the machine would pay for itself in 2 1/2 years.

While the machine has maintenance costs it does not have health insurance, workman's comp, yearly state and federal taxes, etc.

Even small companies like G&L have purchased these machines

Doubt the issue is about cost but rather company philosophy, direction, level of comfort with debt, growth model, timing in the market place, and asset allocation.
For many manufacturers, the only way to survive is automation due to continual rising direct and indirect labor costs; not a question of if but rather when.

 

[bizmarckie]

Doubt the issue is about cost but rather company philosophy, direction, level of comfort with debt, growth model, timing in the market place, and asset allocation.
For many manufacturers, the only way to survive is automation due to continual rising direct and indirect labor costs; not a question of if but rather when.

Yeah, but then you have to fire 2 people... who probably have families.

 

[Big Poppa]

Jim after reading your thread I know why you used to own a mfg company.

We need more than one Plek.....As you figured now from your other thread wanting to know exact production numbers...we actually consider just a few things proprietary.

It does not present the ROI (return on investment) that you have suggested. I like our fret work and the families that do them.

As I have said many times the challenge here is to identify what human hands can do and what machines can do. Neither can do it all. The exciting things is finding a model that works. How does a bass and guitar get mojo? I have seen many hand builts with it....few 100% machine made ones. Its why the final neck shaping/sanding is done by people with an average employment time of 15 years.....THey feel it.....

 

[Grand Wazoo]

I am a consumer, and if I was torn between the choice of buying an item which is designed for me to me to interact with the use of my own hands I would prefer that this article, instrument or whatever would be made by a human, ultimately compatible with the way my hands work and feel rather than a robotic pre-programmed tool which cannot be programmed with the human feel. Am I making sense?

 

[syciprider]

I don't give a plek

 

[bovinehost]

Am I making sense?

You are, and that makes me fear for my own well-being.

 

[bassmonkeee]

At the end of the day, I want the best bass for my needs for the best price. I've found that with my Musicman basses. I have played Plek'd instruments and found them to be very nice. But, I don't think they played any better than my Bongos.

It's simply a case of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." I don't see a rash of threads about the shoddy fretwork on Musicman basses.

 

[oli@bass]

I like our fret work and the families that do them.

A BIG "thumbs up" to that!

 

[Big Poppa]

That was just populist fodder to make us look good.....hehehehe

 

[bovinehost]

And ifImaybesoboldastoaddmyownpersonalopinionhere, there is certainly a contingent of techno-geeks who believe that Plekking (this sounds dirty, like something you might do to someone's vuvuzela) is the "answer" to fine-tuning the adjustments on a stringed instrument.

I think that if each instrument were exactly the same and were going to be played by robots, that might be true.

Meanwhile, "Don't plek my vuvuzela, dude!"

 

[bassmonkeee]

Meanwhile, "Don't plek my vuvuzela, dude!"

I don't even think that's legal in Texas.

 

[oli@bass]

there is certainly a contingent of techno-geeks who believe that Plekking is the "answer" to fine-tuning the adjustments on a stringed instrument.

I'm a dedicated techno-geek. But I prefer an experienced luthier working his magic on my basses. Because... how would the Plek machine know how I like my setup? Fine tuned robots are great to get consistency into a mass production. Experienced humans are great in optimizing each individual item.

 

[Moondog]

I'm a LSS Black Belt; I've been through these issues over and over...
Modernize, re-engineer, RIF/reduce force/costs, ROI, improving change-overs, cycle-times, blah blah blah . . .

Depends on the application but in general I'd rather work with and develop people; sure there are hassles & ancillary HR costs, sick days, disability, etc. but I've been hurt real bad by equipment: stocking parts, not having parts, parts discontinued, catastrophic failures, long lead times, not having contingency plans in place, calibration, preventative maintenance (failures) and a big one: trained/knowledgeable equipment support personnel (24/7). And there's a whole lot more!

Not always feasible but if I had BP's choice, I'd opt for people/family, handmade basses . . . I'd pay premium over a Plek'd instrument (I've owned one).

 

[Jim C]

Jim after reading your thread I know why you used to own a mfg company.

We need more than one Plek.....As you figured now from your other thread wanting to know exact production numbers...we actually consider just a few things proprietary.

It does not present the ROI (return on investment) that you have suggested. I like our fret work and the families that do them.

As I have said many times the challenge here is to identify what human hands can do and what machines can do. Neither can do it all. The exciting things is finding a model that works. How does a bass and guitar get mojo? I have seen many hand builts with it....few 100% machine made ones. Its why the final neck shaping/sanding is done by people with an average employment time of 15 years.....THey feel it.....

Right on brother!
That's what I meant by company philosophy.
Nothing wrong with humans doing handwork; sometimes it just costs a bit more. Of course a machine will never be able to do the final set up or know if the instrument has soul or not. Ironicaly out of the dozen or so instruments that I own, none of the necks were Plek'd.

For those of you that feel machines are evil, do know that making parts like bridge saddles or knurled knobs by hand (as opposed to a CNS lathe) or a zillion other non-critical parts would run the cost through the roof.

Also, there are a lot of parts that could never be made by hand.
Hopefully there will be a photo of a reed box for racing motorcycles that was machined from a block of 4" very hard aircraft aluminum that has a deep taper that I could have never made by hand; tolerances were kept within .001" and we made 15 of them.

http://i313.photobucket.com/albums/ll368/JimCrenca/ReedBox2.jpg

 

[Fuzzy Dustmite]

Plus, I'm sure as with any machine/computer, there will always be upgrades, upgrades, upgrades. So it's not a one and done purchase.

I wholeheartedly thank BP for keeping the human element in the basses. From the tour of the factory, it looked like the only non-human parts to the bass making process were the 'rough' cutting of the necks and bodies and the buffing of the bodies.