Hey, BP! You're gonna love this . . .

[BigBallz]

Also agree with Joel, but it's important to remember what you know and what you don't know.

If a regular knucklehead (like me, for instance) posts on an internet forum that Gibson has acquired Fender, I might do some checking around before I passed that one as gospel.

A while back on another forum, some kid SWORE that instruments were no longer being produced at San Luis Obispo. And that he should know, because he lived in San Luis Obispo. Uh-huh. How many people out there were nodding their heads and thinking, "Well, he should know...." until someone swooped in and cleared it up with personal observations and photos of instruments being produced right where we know they're being produced, SLO?

I know what I know, but I also know what I don't know. Not blaming GC as an entity for some kid passing on bad information, but it's an object lesson for all of us, if we're smart enough. (I'm trying.)

Jack

What I see here, is excuse after excuse....anything from...."he has ten thousand employees", to "they hire kids that don't know what they are doing". These are not excuses, these are reasons why this chain is advoided by many, and has been replaced by internet sales. Every time this discussion come up, more and more horror stories are told..... I don't care how many products GC carries, a EBSR bass costing a great deal of money, should be propery displayed, setup and KNOWING staff should help demonstrate the reasons why I should buy it vs another brand.

The fact here is, there are more poorly run GC's than there are good. And praise is levied on those that merley are just doing their jobs.

 

[adouglas]

Gibson has acquired Fender

WHAT!??!??

Hey, THAT'S NEWS!

I'd better go post that over on TB right away. It MUST be true! Bovinehost said so, and he's a guy who KNOWS what he's talking about!



(I wonder how far we could take a troll like that?)

 

[hankSRay]

GC like any retail store is'nt always the easiest place to work in at times, so I do believe we should cut them a little bit of slack. I myself work in a pretty big store with alot of stock, sometimes I get asked questions that I dont know the answers to. It happens. I'm not saying its right for GC employees to make up stories, but I am saying its hard for them to know everything. Lets say a customer goes in there and asks their "guitar guy" a bass question he may not know the answer to. Should he go and get the "bass guy" and lose his commision, or just try his best to answer? We all know what we would like to see happen at GC but its not always the case, and stuff happens, they're human. So with that all said I know next time Its time for me to go shopping for a new EBMM bass I will happily send Jack a PM!

 

[BigBallz]

GC like any retail store is'nt always the easiest place to work in at times, so I do believe we should cut them a little bit of slack. I myself work in a pretty big store with alot of stock, sometimes I get asked questions that I dont know the answers to. It happens. I'm not saying its right for GC employees to make up stories, but I am saying its hard for them to know everything. Lets say a customer goes in there and asks their "guitar guy" a bass question he may not know the answer to. Should he go and get the "bass guy" and lose his commision, or just try his best to answer? We all know what we would like to see happen at GC but its not always the case, and stuff happens, they're human. So with that all said I know next time Its time for me to go shopping for a new EBMM bass I will happily send Jack a PM!

YES!!! If I can not be compently helped, then get me someone who can. This is a no brainer. No disrespect to you, hankSRay, but I am paying thousands for gear. I deserve, demand and EXPECT a knowledgeable sales person.

 

[bassmonkeee]

The fact here is, there are more poorly run GC's than there are good. And praise is levied on those that merley are just doing their jobs.

The fact here is that you have no idea how many poorly run GC's there are, nor how many that are run well. That's simply you rephrasing your obvious anti-GC bias another way with nothing to base it on whatsoever besides what you want it to be.

I've had plenty of positive experiences at GC over the course of 7-8 years. And, you say it's just praise for them doing their jobs? Basically, anything short of 100% success is failure to you.

 

[BigBallz]

The fact here is that you have no idea how many poorly run GC's there are, nor how many that are run well. That's simply you rephrasing your obvious anti-GC bias another way with nothing to base it on whatsoever besides what you want it to be.

My experience with multipal stores, has been overwhelming negative. Posters who have taken the time to reply to this string have more negative encounters than positive. Simple math.

I mearly report what I see, experience, hear and read.

 

[midopa]

OT: Is Sam Ash still a EBMM dealer? They used to have EBMM stuff, but they all vanished one day and never came back.

 

[adouglas]

I worked in chain-store retail in the dim and distant past (Herman's World of Sporting Goods, a now-defunct chain kind of like Sports Authority).

Quality is all about the individual, not the store. There are sales people who actually do like to help people find the right thing to buy, and who actually do know their stuff, in every chain. You just have to find them and make friends with them. Some of my co-workers at Herman's were definitely the full-of-BS idiots we keep on hearing about. But others actually gave a damn and would try to provide good service and correct information.

IMHO it has to do with attitude. Some people think of a low-end job as not paying well enough to make them put out any effort at all. Others try to do the best job they can, all the time, as a matter of personal pride.

Reading some of the GC horror posts, you'd think that GC goes out and actually TRIES to find clueless people. Of course not.

But look at it from their point of view. They can't afford to pay their staff all that much, not if they're going to compete with Internet retailers. So they have to take what they can get for what they can afford to pay. Chances are they'll be happy if the sales guy has basic product knowledge and will show up to work on time...a guy with superior product knowledge at that pay rate? Fugedaboudit (this last is sheer speculation, of course).

Ask yourself this: If you have good product knowledge...better than the guys you run into at GC...would you be willing to swap places with them? Take their job...and their level of pay?

 

[adouglas]

OT: Is Sam Ash still a EBMM dealer? They used to have EBMM stuff, but they all vanished one day and never came back.

I don't know the specific answer, but I was in a Smash last night and there were three Stingrays on the wall, all used, with filthy fingerboards, and all way overpriced. No new ones.

 

[BigBallz]

I worked in chain-store retail in the dim and distant past (Herman's World of Sporting Goods, a now-defunct chain kind of like Sports Authority).

Quality is all about the individual, not the store. There are sales people who actually do like to help people find the right thing to buy, and who actually do know their stuff, in every chain. You just have to find them and make friends with them. Some of my co-workers at Herman's were definitely the full-of-BS idiots we keep on hearing about. But others actually gave a damn and would try to provide good service and correct information.

IMHO it has to do with attitude. Some people think of a low-end job as not paying well enough to make them put out any effort at all. Others try to do the best job they can, all the time, as a matter of personal pride.

Reading some of the GC horror posts, you'd think that GC goes out and actually TRIES to find clueless people. Of course not.

But look at it from their point of view. They can't afford to pay their staff all that much, not if they're going to compete with Internet retailers. So they have to take what they can get for what they can afford to pay. Chances are they'll be happy if the sales guy has basic product knowledge and will show up to work on time...a guy with superior product knowledge at that pay rate? Fugedaboudit (this last is sheer speculation, of course).

Ask yourself this: If you have good product knowledge...better than the guys you run into at GC...would you be willing to swap places with them? Take their job...and their level of pay?

This statement is so misleading, IMO...because GC"s have been troubled stores way before the internet.

Bottom line here....pay and TRAIN your employees better. So you don't make 1.25 billion in sales, you only make 1.15 billion.

I am not bashing the GC chain...they are, in my opinion, understaffed, undertrained and underpaid. These go hand in hand. I have probably been in GC's 200 times in my lifetime. Not once, did I ever see any kind of training going on.

 

[SteveB]

I don't know the specific answer, but I was in a Smash last night and there were three Stingrays on the wall, all used, with filthy fingerboards, and all way overpriced. No new ones.

I believe I recall BP saying that Sam Ash hasn't been an EBMM dealer for like 3 years now. So that's probably old stock that you're looking at.. hence the filthy fingerboards. (Maybe they'd sell if someone took the time to clean them?)

 

[Golem]

I don't cringe about visiting my local GC. I do OK there. I deal with people I know, so nobody throws stoopid stories at me. Mostly they know that I look for bargains and that many of my bargains are top shelf, so I am a source of cash flow, even though I prefer to help them with their "at cost" cleanup sales rather than contribute to the profit margin. So I'm a scavenger. I serve an important function while feeding my habit. The GC staff and management seem to agree, and this results in a working relationship.

 

[tkarter]

I just want to say the hardest thing to know is when you don't know.


tk

 

[tadawson]

But then again, simply keeping your mouth shut if you don't know, rather than spewing creative bulls**t should be pretty easy, but yet, a lot of sales pukes can't figure it out . . .

Oh, and the guy who I started this thread about was neither young, or a guitar guy. He WAS the bass guy, and looked to be in his low 30s . . . not ancient, but beyond teenage stupidity by a large margin . . .

- Tim

 

[tkarter]

Apparently the guy didn't know he didn't know. I would have asked if there were any drummers in the store that could help me.


tk

 

[Disquieter]

GC pays their employees a base wage, plus a commission struction that varies dependant on your position.

I have nothing but positive things (well, almost nothing) to say about GC, in my 10 years of dealing with them including the majority under their employ. I was given so many opportunities that I would not get almost anywhere else.

-free gear from sales conests totaling around 16,000 dollars.
-GC open house / training at St Louis Music (ampeg). Free booze/food/swag/trip
-personal tour of taylor factory
-mesa factory
-bottle of Marshall Handwired
-hung out with steve vai and talked about video games
-played eric claptons strat
-took a 2 week cruise (free)
-backstage passes to ozzfest everyyear in addition to many other concerts
-recieved extensive training on all sorts of cool gear (it happens before they open folks, mostly no training during the day).

one of the best parts for me was the fact that I was helping people realize their dreams. 90% of people can't afford to buy basses when ever they want, so I worked with them, encouraged them to buy the right piece, even if it meant waiting, or buying and returning to upgrade.

I say yay for GC, i made plenty of money once commission kicked in, before that, it was tight, but one month, my manager gave me 200 bucks to help me get by. No payback expected, such was the level of family that we fostered in my store.

 

[bovinehost]

And, once again, this comes down to what your personal perception is.

Have I been guilty of GC bashing? Yes. Am I willing to try to understand what it is they're up against? Yes.

If your mind is made up that:

a. all Guitar Centers are impeccably run and chock full of supremely informed sales staff or
b. all Guitar Centers are FUBAR and overflowing with mouth-breathers, then....

Give it up. You've closed off input.

As someone reminded me not long ago, it's not in my best interests to go to bat for Guitar Center. I see the logic in this, but I don't/can't really compete with them. It is my opinion that more options and more choices benefit us all.

And again - they've been tremendously successful. It wasn't just luck.

Jack

 

[bottle12am]

Guys--

Look at the big picture here.

Sometimes after Ray Kroc decided he wanted people to step into any McDonalds in the USA and not feel any difference but rather a sure and simple familiarity and continuity, someone figured that if this theory works for burgers, it must work for every other sector of retail.

The familiarity we are supposed and continuity of service we are to feel in any big-box nationwide store just doesn't happen. I can name Wal-Mart sales staff and stores I'd trust with my life, and WM's with the hospitality of a Gulag and knowledge of a Paris Hilton fan club president.

I've had the best electronics experiences at the Best Buy where I live, while I could set myself on fire in Circuit City and no one would notice me. Where my sister lives, the exact opposite happens; she has sworn off Best Buy for life.

Same with GC. Thanks to them, many of the 'mom n pop' music stores in New Orleans where I shop have gone the way of the dodo. Yes, the prices are nice, but it's the personal service that I miss. I've found great employees at GC that I wish could be there everytime I visit-- but face it, these guys either get promoted, relocated, leave for a better job, or have to alternate schedules with the brain-deads -- making my experience strictly hit-or-miss.

I knew all the salespeople by name in my locally owned stores before they went belly-up.

The crappy thing is that management (in franchised retail- not necessarily pointing fingers at GC) worry about one thing-- the investor. If a great sales guy leaves cuz they won't give him a dollar-per-hour raise, they don't sweat it. They just open the application drawer. If a customer doesn't like their 'one-size-fits-all' mentality, they don't worry. Another customer will be through the door in a minute.

Managers are trained in college to make the dollar, whether they're selling soap or satellite dishes. Who cares about the customer or the employee? Stocks are up.

---------------
Once again, not a rant aiming at GC, just letting out steam on my experiences with corporate America in general.

 

[barkatozz]

I've only been to one GC......the one near me. My one fault about it is the bass section.......they carry way to many Fenders & the rest of the basses are cheapy ones or 5 strings. The EBMM selection bites the big one. Three 5'ers....a pearl blue Sterling, & an HH SR4 with a bad volume pot(someone f'd it up already & how long could it have been hanging on the wall?)
Funny thing is Sam Ash is maybe 100 feet away from Guitar Center & is waaaay worse. 90% Hartke gear & 10% everything else. And their prices on strings is much more than GC........you'd think they'd try & compete BUT......they don't.....morons.

 

[bovinehost]

I think Sam Ash owns Hartke, so at least they should be able to cut you a very good deal, eh?

It strikes me that Sam Ash has decided to compete with Guitar Center on very different terms. GC has a much wider selection of name-brand gear while SA carried a boatload of Carlos Robelli (a real person? you decide) and Hartke and so on.