How do Suhr, Tyler, Melancon compare?

[Big Poppa]

Dont you think that after twenty years of doing this if I was going to go all custom shop on us I would have already done it. We may continue to offer more exotic and unique combinations but within the same concept of being a great value for the quality delivered.

On that subject it is really baffling to me that some of the boutique basses and guitars that are out therethat are percieved to be superior to EBMM stuff because of the retail price. What the consumer doesn't know is that many of these guys buy finished bodies and necks to thier spec's, buy pickguards and hardware and expertly assemble and set them up. THey are more expensive because there is another middle man doing the hard work, hence the higher price. Many people buy the story that its more expensive so it has to be better. If two companies that are out there that you dont know exist shut down the world would lose about a dozen alleged luthiers.

This isnt a bash on them. I love choices but not all of these guys are being straight with exactly what they do. We actually mill, sand and finish our stuff and make necks and control about 90% off our complete instrument.

 

[Abraxas]

I should like to offer another viewpoint if I may...

EBMM guitars are really a steal at those prices, in the USA. Heck, you can get a new Axis SS for a little more than 1000€ in the USA.

It's not the same for Europe, where new EBMM prices are very close to the "boutique" manufacturers' prices. In Greece for instance, the price of a Steve Morse is close to 2000€, a bit more for the Axis. A Suhr Classic retails for apr. 2300€ or thereabouts.

That makes it more of a compliment when someone choses a EBMM over a Suhr or Tyler, since the decision is purely made on quality, performance and true value, not whether it is a bargain or not.

I've played a number of EBMMs side by side with various such "boutique" guitars in a similar price range, and, truth be told, I wasn't able to find a single reason to prefer the later. Apart from personal preferences (e.g. I cannot get accustomed to the Steve Morse neck but I love the one on the Axis) EBMM guitars offer the same high value as those high-end instruments; and I believe they offer a lot more "personality", an elusive but always important quality for a musical instrument.

Just my 2 cents (Euro cents, that is )

 

[candyredsilo]

Anderson love!

I own a silhouette special, a Melancon strat, and an Anderson Drop Top. EBMM is a great guitar (except resale value is about 1/3 original price?), but my main love is my Anderson. Silo's are great strats though.
Bill T

 

[phatduckk]

i tend to think about the "which guitar is better" thing the same way I think about the "which band is better" thing. either question has no "real" answer and its all personal opinion. with both questions the answer varries on my mood, or which week it is ... sometimes i like one better than the other but in the end i like em both in different ways.

as far as guitar purchasing goes. i usually buy the guitars that i cant put down at the store - no matter what finish etc.

 

[Spudmurphy]

I'd like to chip in her and represent the "OTHER SIDE OF THE POND".
I have a guitar made by a local Cardiff Luthier called Dave Dearnaley - he makes just about everything except the knobs, machine heads and pots. The pickups are made locally and he will hand carve a neck to your specification from timber that he has travelled 100's of miles to select personally.
He loves my Albert Lee and loves it when an EB comes into his workshop for some TLC. His guitars are not that well known but if you UK'ers remember Motorhead playing on The Young Ones, you will see a flying V made by Dave.
He is not in competion with EB, his forte are the Strat/Tele type guitars with Nitro celly finish and retro style guitars. He is a player too (Alien Sex Fiends) and is a real gentlemen and will "chew the fat" with you if you pop into his workshop.

If I ever win the lottery, I'm taking Dave over to the US and hope that we can make it to SLO.

Spud

 

[SteveLINY]

Though I am a die hard EBMM fan an own many....
Nothing has ever come close to the quality, feel and tone of my latest Suhr custom.
John also happens to be about the best in the business with customer service.
But as far as I'm concerned, nothing beats a EBMM for the price....Nothing....
But I truly love the Suhrs I have....
Here is the Suhr that dethroned my 2 Morses.....

 

[Big Poppa]

Great guitar Suhrs are really good and John is passsionate about his art
like a cloned strat and pRS

 

[Spudmurphy]

Phew, what a bookmatch on that top - congrats on owning an awesome looking guitar

 

[candyredsilo]

But I truly love the Suhrs I have....
Here is the Suhr that dethroned my 2 Morses.....

My Anderson is identical to your Suhr, except mine has a vintage tremolo.

 

[droptop]

Dont you think that after twenty years of doing this if I was going to go all custom shop on us I would have already done it. We may continue to offer more exotic and unique combinations but within the same concept of being a great value for the quality delivered.

Well yes, but after 20 years no one figured you would offer a cheap line of guitars either. It is far easier to self cannibalize than have the competition do it for you. Just as you offer an inexpensive line, the door can swing the other way and you would be foolish not to consider it. Part of the Custom Shop mistique is the feeling that you can get something that not everyone can readily have...something that is personalized. Don't get me wrong EBMMs are a great value for the money. This view has been reiterated time and time again in this thread. But there is an opportunity. Companies like Tyler, Anderson, Grosh, Suhr, etc. caused Fender to have to have a Custom Shop.

 

[jaxadam]

Though I am a die hard EBMM fan an own many....
Nothing has ever come close to the quality, feel and tone of my latest Suhr custom.
John also happens to be about the best in the business with customer service.
But as far as I'm concerned, nothing beats a EBMM for the price....Nothing....
But I truly love the Suhrs I have....
Here is the Suhr that dethroned my 2 Morses.....

Wow man, that is an absolutely unbelievable guitar. Absolutley gorgeous. If it were 24 fret, I would probably sell a few of my guitars to get it. That is one of the first guitars I've seen in a while that I am actually impressed with.

I've got to admit. I have a PRS Custom 22 that I got over 10 years ago that I haven't played in about two years, and I finally played it last weekend and it absolutely blew my mind. It used to be my main guitar for a while, but I haven't touched it, and then I picked it up, and it blew me away. It reeks of unparalleled quality and workmanship.

 

[Big Poppa]

Droptop
Are you referencing olp or sub"s?

Suhr used to work in Fenders custom shop Grosh wasnt around, Tyler I still havent seen photos of a factory but they are very nice 'strats' and fine guitars, Tom anderson is fantastic but his volume doesnt cause a ripple in fenders waters...... I am sorry to challenge you but I know where the bodies are buried. Fender has a custom shop because there is a market for upcharge stuff and it gives artists a Fender that they can play. THese little makers were absolutely not the reason for Fender creating the custom shop.

 

[Big Poppa]

Though I am a die hard EBMM fan an own many....
Nothing has ever come close to the quality, feel and tone of my latest Suhr custom.
John also happens to be about the best in the business with customer service.
But as far as I'm concerned, nothing beats a EBMM for the price....Nothing....
But I truly love the Suhrs I have....
Here is the Suhr that dethroned my 2 Morses.....

What did that guitar retail for? How many of our guitars could you buy for that one?

 

[Sigmunds Couch]

My $.05. It is a beautiful guitar. I'm completely uneducated about Suhr but you know that EBMM can absolutely produce something of this beauty at a price point that would be obtainable for a great many people. Does BP have to? No, but he and the team are playing with some great ideas with the protos of the JP and (maybe) the Luke. (Foggy, can you put up a photo of BP's Koa Axis SS as an example?) In the the post, I see a melding of an original Silo with 20th Anniversary finery. Pop a rosewood neck on it and viola. I've got a 20th on order because it is equally a beautiful instrument. As BP said, I can have a few more EBMM's for the price of one "boutique" instrument. To me, EBMM is a boutique manufacturer. Again, it's only my opinion. Great looking axe though.

 

[robelinda2]

EB unbelieveable necks are a big factor too, what other company makes anywhere near the kind of neck EB do? I"ve yet to find one.

I feel sorry for those who shell out however many thousands of dollars to get a Anderson, Suhr, Grosh etc when EB make equally high class boutique guitars, yes i said boutique. cos they are. my hands tell me all the time whilst i'm playing them. you think i play my Rory custom shop strat much? HELL NO!!! I could buy 3 Ernie's if i sold that sucker. Silo Special kicks the Rory. By miles.

Rock on Ernie Ball. Please stay the same awesome guitar maker that you are.

 

[droptop]

Droptop
Are you referencing olp or sub"s?

Suhr used to work in Fenders custom shop Grosh wasnt around, Tyler I still havent seen photos of a factory but they are very nice 'strats' and fine guitars, Tom anderson is fantastic but his volume doesnt cause a ripple in fenders waters...... I am sorry to challenge you but I know where the bodies are buried. Fender has a custom shop because there is a market for upcharge stuff and it gives artists a Fender that they can play. THese little makers were absolutely not the reason for Fender creating the custom shop.

OLPs.

Suhr was with Rudy Pensa prior to Fender Custom Shop. Grosh has been around since 1993. Tyler is a small operation and Anderson is growing. Both James and Tom got their start together with Schector, who was making copies/custom productions of Fender type guitars in the 80's.

Fender has turned things around with their quality. Some would venture to say that they have too much selection, and the Custom Shop is thriving out of demand for higher end instruments. But if they were fullfilling the needs of the market there wouldn't be a reason for people to look at other companies making "better" clones. Fender's Custom Shop doesn't cause a ripple in the guitar market, you're talking about the top 10%...if that.

I like EBMM because they march to their own drummer when it comes to guitar design (ie you are not a clone). But you could stand to market yourselves better. I've heard it time and time again from sales reps at music stores. The quality is certainly there. As for custom shops, I as a consumer may be willing to pay more for AA quilt top Silhouette with a different pickup configuration or neck specs. I'd rather have the option from you than having to go to another company.

 

[SteveB]

But you could stand to market yourselves better. I've heard it time and time again from sales reps at music stores.

I used to think that, but then I realized that such a move would increase my wait time for MusicMan guitars!

If the factory is currently looking at November deliveries for guitars ordered today (and it may be into December by now), then I don't want the marketing to improve too much!

 

[Big Poppa]

OLPs.

Suhr was with Rudy Pensa prior to Fender Custom Shop. Grosh has been around since 1993. Tyler is a small operation and Anderson is growing. Both James and Tom got their start together with Schector, who was making copies/custom productions of Fender type guitars in the 80's.

Fender has turned things around with their quality. Some would venture to say that they have too much selection, and the Custom Shop is thriving out of demand for higher end instruments. But if they were fullfilling the needs of the market there wouldn't be a reason for people to look at other companies making "better" clones. Fender's Custom Shop doesn't cause a ripple in the guitar market, you're talking about the top 10%...if that.

I like EBMM because they march to their own drummer when it comes to guitar design (ie you are not a clone). But you could stand to market yourselves better. I've heard it time and time again from sales reps at music stores. The quality is certainly there. As for custom shops, I as a consumer may be willing to pay more for AA quilt top Silhouette with a different pickup configuration or neck specs. I'd rather have the option from you than having to go to another company.

Droptop
first you say that fender custom shop is a direct response to suhr tyler anderson. I shoot holes in it and you say that we are undermarketed????? what is your pedigee?
what is your experience making and marketing guitars. I am backordered more than all combined and make more than all combined. who is mismarketed?

 

[Motojunkie]

Fender has turned things around with their quality. Some would venture to say that they have too much selection, and the Custom Shop is thriving out of demand for higher end instruments. But if they were fullfilling the needs of the market there wouldn't be a reason for people to look at other companies making "better" clones. Fender's Custom Shop doesn't cause a ripple in the guitar market, you're talking about the top 10%...if that.

I have to call BS on most of this. Fender's quality is subpar at best. The reason they do so well is because they are a household name. Anyone that is new to guitar or bass will go to Fender or Gibson first due their huge names.

The reason people look for better clones is because Fender doesn't build their own models as nicely as the quality clone builders. The only reason the clones have slowed down is because Fender has filed suit against guys like Lentz, Suhr, and some of the others to get them to stop making guitars that were so close to real Fenders. They could have easily just built a better guitar instead, but they couldn't compete with the quality of guitar that these small shops were putting out - even the hallowed Fender Custom Shop couldn't compete. So through litigation they have prevailed, not through quality.

The whole topic of Fender's selection is one that really irks me a bit. Music Man has way more models than Fender has ever had. All Fender has is 4 basic models - Strat, Tele, J-bass & P-bass. They have what seems to be 100 variations of those 4, and they like to brag about them all being different models. That's BS to me. Put a different pickguard on it, paint it a special color, and all of a sudden you have a 60th anniversary model. At least MM takes the time to design something special with their anniversary models.

I can buy a MIA Fender, or a Music Man for around the same $$$ new. The quality of the Music Man blows the doors off the Fender.....You know where my money is spent. Right here -

I really didn't intend to rant. Sorry if this pisses anyone off - mods feel free to delete this post if its not appropriate.

 

[guitrr]

Steve, that Suhr of yours is gorgeous; what a beautiful instrument.

Poppa, there are pics of Tyler's production facility on his website; it does appear from all the neck and body blanks that all their carving, shaping, routing, finishing, and building is done onsite.

One thing I really love about my Grosh and Tyler guitars is how they roll the edges of the fingerboard; it makes the guitar feel like it's been broken in for years, the day you buy it. The other thing I love about both of them is the different neck shapes, all of which are available on any model they make. (hint, hint)

I doubt if the small builders make much of a dent in Fender's market share, but from what I've seen they do make a considerable dent in the pro market. I.E. I see a lot of L.A. and Nashville hotshots playing Grosh, Anderson, Tyler, Suhr, etc. Check out some pics from, for instance, the house bands at the Grammy and Oscar's shows, and some of the house bands at the Opry and other Nashville venues. I'm sure those guys could get Fender to throw guitars at them for nothing or artist pricing, but they choose to play "boutique" instruments from small builders - usually at their own expense.

On that note, I read a funny story about Mike Zaite, aka Dr. Z; builder of tremendous boutique amps. Apparently, he was contacted by someone associated with Bonnie Raitt, her guitar tech or something like that. He spoke to the good doctor about making Bonnie some amps, which Dr Z replied that he'd be more than happy to do. During the conversation, it became obvious that he'd be expected to supply the amps for free. At that point, Dr Z (who has a rep for being a bit cantankerous at times) told the tech to pound sand, and if Ms Raitt wanted some amps, she was going to pay for them like everyone else.

The tech exclaimed, "Don't you have an endorsment program?"

Dr Z replied, "Yea, you endorse a check to me, and I build you an amp."

You gotta love that!


Back to the main topic, on the other hand, over the last 20 years, PRS seems to have taken a fair chunk out of Gibson's market share in the Mahogany/Maple top/humbucker equipped market, to the extent that PRS is now a very large scale production company, and definitely steals sales from Gibson.

Kane