How important is "the right" sound in a band context?

[strummer]

My pet soundguy gripe is guys who think that vocals should be down in the mix, at the same volume as everything else. When I mix a band, I ensure that the vocals are distinct, and the loudest instrument, especially during verses. I also tend to have the bass sitting fairly high in the mix

Amen to that!

 

[oldbluebassman]

My pet soundguy gripe is guys who think that vocals should be down in the mix, at the same volume as everything else. When I mix a band, I ensure that the vocals are distinct, and the loudest instrument, especially during verses. I also tend to have the bass sitting fairly high in the mix

Agree 100%, and if you can't get the vocals up, because of howl-round, then the instruments must come down.

 

[bassmonkey]

Interesting comments, but a little off from what I wanted us to talk about. I'm not asking about the vocals, guitars, mix etc. I am asking about your own personal tone preferences.

For instance one guy says he likes a BongoH with flats through an Ampeg rig with Eden 4X10s, another prefers a SR5 HS with roundwounds through a GK head and Bergatino speakers. They have the tone/PUP combinations dialed in a certain way. BUT how do they know. This sounds changes so much when the band begins to play. It even changes according to venue and number of people at the gig.

Fair enough, the wireless guys can go out front. Tone is such a personal thing, so without wireless how do you really know. Are we just BSing when we say we like such and such? Just kidding ourselves?

 

[Hutton]

Hey monkey - Thanks for starting a really informative thread. I've enjoyed it greatly. I play most of my gigs in church and so my sound doesn't change a great deal. I keep it simple and use the same settings as much as I can. The adjustments are usually to alter the amount of bass according to whatever church I am playing in although the similarities in church buildings are quite remarkable and I usually find myself using the same settings. We have a resident sound guy which is also a great bonus.

 

[oldbluebassman]

Interesting comments, but a little off from what I wanted us to talk about. I'm not asking about the vocals, guitars, mix etc. I am asking about your own personal tone preferences.

I think it comes with experience. My quest goes back a long way. In 1991 I saw John Mayall's Bluesbreakers in Amsterdam. His bass player, one Rick Cortez, was using a Stingray 5 though a stack of some sort. At that defining moment I decided that his sound was what I was after and it registered in my head. I've spent years trying to match his tone/sound and probably spent an inordinate amount of money I've just about got there. That is what I try to set up to.

 

[bassmonkey]

I think it comes with experience. My quest goes back a long way. In 1991 I saw John Mayall's Bluesbreakers in Amsterdam. His bass player, one Rick Cortez, was using a Stingray 5 though a stack of some sort. At that defining moment I decided that his sound was what I was after and it registered in my head. I've spent years trying to match his tone/sound and probably spent an inordinate amount of money I've just about got there. That is what I try to set up to.

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. So your sound is referenced to someone elses' tone that you liked.

Yes, I agree, I think that is the way most of us go, even if it is subliminal. BUT, you still haven't answered my question, how do you know you have arrived at that tone? Was your soundman at the Amsterdam gig with you?

Can you tell I'm in a stubborn mood today?

On an unrelated note, has anyone ever heard a tone in their head, picked up the bass, without touching any controls got that tone right off. Purely from the way you are attacking the strings?

I have done this on a few occasions, I'm usually in a heightened state of creativity on such days(hope that doesn't sound too pretentious), and the feeling I get when it happens is amazing. I think ultimately our tone/sound is in our fingers.

 

[bassmonkey]

Hey monkey - Thanks for starting a really informative thread. I've enjoyed it greatly. I play most of my gigs in church and so my sound doesn't change a great deal. I keep it simple and use the same settings as much as I can. The adjustments are usually to alter the amount of bass according to whatever church I am playing in although the similarities in church buildings are quite remarkable and I usually find myself using the same settings. We have a resident sound guy which is also a great bonus.

Okay, but how do you know that is the tone you are after? are you playing solo, or in an ensemble?

 

[Hutton]

Good point! First thing to say is that I play in a band of drummer/three backing singers/lead vocal/lead guitar/rhythm guitar/keyborads/bass. My sound seems ok to me from where I am listening. I suppose I can only hope that the same sound is being heard out front and rely on the sound guy. You have really got me thinking now about how the sound appears out front. As I said before - great thread!

 

[oldbluebassman]

Yes, I agree, I think that is the way most of us go, even if it is subliminal. BUT, you still haven't answered my question, how do you know you have arrived at that tone? .

I wouldn't say that I've arrived at that tone but I've arrived at something very similar that I like. Seeing and hearing was a pointer. The first step was to buy an SR5.

Was your soundman at the Amsterdam gig with you? .

Rarely use a sound man. Rarely DI through the PA. What my amp puts out is what the punters get. Hence the need to get it right to my satisfaction.

Can you tell I'm in a stubborn mood today?

Chill man, it's a Bank Holiday

 

[bassmonkey]

You have really got me thinking now about how the sound appears out front.

My work is done here!

 

[bassmonkey]

The first step was to buy an SR5.

I played one of these at the Bass Gallery a few weeks ago. I put up a thread about it. I couldn't get over how deep and sonorous the bottom end sounded. I have the 20th Ann SR, perhaps it's just in comparison to that. I dunno.

Rarely DI through the PA. What my amp puts out is what the punters get.

Neither do I. I really was knocked out by the combination of SR and GK amp when I saw this video.

Chill man, it's a Bank Holiday

I'm chilled, dude!

My girl is on her way over with some basil, I'm going to cook top notch nosh and drink some wine.

 

[Aussie Mark]

What's this forum coming to? People expecting threads to stay on topic!

 

[SharonG]

For instance one guy says he likes a BongoH with flats through an Ampeg rig with Eden 4X10s, another prefers a SR5 HS with roundwounds through a GK head and Bergatino speakers. They have the tone/PUP combinations dialed in a certain way. BUT how do they know. This sounds changes so much when the band begins to play. It even changes according to venue and number of people at the gig.

So true - I find that what sounds great to me at home when practising, won't necessarily work in the mix in a live room, especially if the acoustics are wierd. My bass runs through the PA, and I use a 16 inch Hartke as a stage monitor (no drums, Tommy's outrageous acoustic, and vocals). I'll step in front of the PA to check once in a while, but with failry stark instrumentation, it's pretty easy to tell if something's off. Basically what works for me is starting off w/ all settings in the middle, and titrating from there....

 

[Jon Packard]

I've found that my bass sound doens't change all that much from stage to FOH. A sound guy can EQ (and I spend time with my engineer on that), but they can't change the tonal character fundamentally. You can't make my jazz sound like a precision, or my SR5 sound like an EB0.

Granted, I tour with a sound guy who works for me. And as the bandleader, I get all the time I need to make sure my sound is right, but it's never very difficult. Hire sound men you can trust. And if you can't trust them, spend a lot of time making sure they don't screw things up.

 

[SharonG]

The sound guy is never an issue for us.......it's Tommy - what more could you ask for?
Basically the only adjustments I need are fine tuning, which I will admit is much easier with the Bongo than it ever was with my P-bass.

 

[strummer]

Tone is such a personal thing, so without wireless how do you really know. Are we just BSing when we say we like such and such? Just kidding ourselves?

To me, the good tone I want is on stage. And that tone isn't necessarily anything like what my bass sound out front. I really don't care too much; it seems real hard for a sound guy to screw the Bongo sound up too badly. I might tell him I like it flat, and he might want some more of that, some less of this. It'll still be basically the same, though.

 

[tkarter]

I have spent so much time playing with the band that I expect that tone I hear from the band to be at home. I seem to maintain that whether the cabs are handling the room or on DI. Never thought about it much as I pretty much get the sound I expect to get without much searching.



tk

 

[adouglas]

I personally think getting the right sound is absolutely critical....
The problem is that the tone you get by yourself may not be the tone you need in the band situation..

+1.

This is something that a lot of us have to learn the hard way...that what sounds good soloed does NOT sound good in the mix. Now that I've learned that lesson we sound a whole lot better. The legendary EBMM sound is just fantastic for sitting well in the mix.

Something else to consider, that others have alluded to: When you're standing up on stage, you've got a markedly different sound field to deal with than the audience does. For one thing, you're probably standing a few feet in front of your rig, with the cabinet firing at your legs, not at your ears. An audience member standing in front of the stage hears something different, because they have the cabinet pointed more or less at their head. An audience member standing out in the room (in the line of fire of the PA mains) is hearing something different yet again.

When I first started playing with a PA, I was shocked at how lousy the sound was on stage, even if it was mixed well out front. You have to simply accept that what you hear is not what they hear.