How Many Colors Do We Paint?

[Stratty316]

I had a thought on this:

What if EBMM were to offer a natural version of each model for those who intend on seeking out a custom color of their own? Maybe offer the naturals at a slight discount to compensate for the out of pocket cost of applying ones own paint however they see fit?


Thoughts?

I would think that the overall cost savings of offering a "natural" color would be minimal at best because 1) you still have to clear coat the guitar to protect it to keep consistent with the brand's quality promise (you could do a natural oiled PDN run) and 2) BP still has to pay everyone involved in making it, distribute it, advertise it, etc. Then what happens when we send it to a painter who promises the world but can't deliver? At the end of the day I would think this option would cost the same if not more because of the risk involved to EBMM.

 

[kimonostereo]

I had a thought on this:

What if EBMM were to offer a natural version of each model for those who intend on seeking out a custom color of their own? Maybe offer the naturals at a slight discount to compensate for the out of pocket cost of applying ones own paint however they see fit?


Thoughts?

From a warranty standpoint, I don't see how EBMM would do that, but only they can answer that. Different woods are extremely soft and will not last in a guitar shop showroom unfinished. Getting dents and dings out of bare unfinished wood is not impossible but also not really easy either. Not to mention natural finger oil that would mar the body, unless it's treated with some sort of oil finish, which to me would defeat the purpose if you wanted to paint the body yourself.

Also, natural guitars are tricky in that if you want a stained finish or even just a clear, natural finish, most people want a really nice piece of wood for a 1 or 2 piece body. Some finished bodies have imperfections in the wood but you'd never see them because they are sealed, primered and painted. Also, you still need to do a lot of filling for the pores. Some wood have more pores that others. You need to do this even for guitars with a straight clear finish, unless you like feeling the pores of the wood or you spray a really thick clear coat.

 

[Johnny Alien]

It seems like there would no way to offer a proper warranty on something that would leave the factory in an incomplete state. Also that could lead to people doing strange or below quality work that would then have the EBMM logo on it. The reality is that there really can't be that many people wanting a different finish....if there was they would still make them.

 

[alf cockle]

Money talks..you know the rest!..I think cats only see black and white..if only they could play guitars..wouldn*t life be grand...

 

[Baggedcereals]

I do not see a big deal in finish options that are already " in the building " on how its so hard to use them oin various models? If the spray booths and guns are already shooting that finish why not go grab a axis, Luke, petrucci body and hang it up and spray the damn thing?

You meen to tell us small companies like Warmoth and Carvin just to name a few have tons of options to choose from color,wood, and finish wise.

But Ernie ball can't offer these to willing paying customers? Not trying to start a war just stateing.

 

[JayDawg]

BP, I understand you reasons for doing what you have done. I'm not going to knock you because I get it. I am curious though for those that do want custom colors or anything along those lines and are willing to order from a dealer and pay an upcharge, have you guys ever considered subbing out the work to other places that are set up for doing that? One one hand it doesn't effect your production of regular models and it also offers those customers what they want. If it is something you guys have considered, or would consider, I would like to talk to you about my idea. I won't pm you or contact you out of respect for your wishes but I do know how it could happen if you do want to approach me and talk.

 

[Etudica]

I'd just say that I've never been disappointed with any EBMM color options offered. Every one I've seen looks spectacular, and as others have said I'd own every single color if only I had the $$$.

That being said, I'm still holding out for the possibility that the Maj will be offered with a gloss clear coat. The matte just isn't my thing. If a Majesty PDN run with a gloss top coat is ever offered I'll sell whatever I need to in order to make them mine... both a 6 and a 7!

One last thing - soooo glad to see the tobacco burst back recently. The tobacco burst koa paired with the maple necks are absolutely the best looking guitars I have ever seen. Trying to scrap together enough to grab one. Kudos!

 

[dibart77]

Now to the hurting. ALL guitar companies are way off in sales. Our sales went up last year and are up this year due to the new offerings and streamlining of our offerings. I will break even this year and possible make a small net profit after three years of losses.

I love this business and dont want to make crap...we never lowered our standards or layed employees off.

Sterling -- thanks for the transparency and details above. It always seems like EBMM is growing and winning and doing amazing stuff, so most of us didn't realize the situation that EBMM has been facing. At the end of the day, if this brand doesn't thrive and succeed then we all lose. In light of the new info, most of us who argued about color choices probably feel very different. I didn't complain in this recent thread, but I did lament the colors going away in the original post last fall.

Many of us here are super passionate about EBMM and we feel like part of the extended family (no, we can't be Balls, but we're still in this with you). So we see folks here who feel a little like, "Why wasn't I consulted in this decision?" Which I know is ludicrous and I'm being a little facetious (but not 100% facetious). But try not to take the strong POV's as entitlement -- it's more a sense of ownership. EBMM is the brand we all "endorse" every day. Even though most of us are not rock stars and never will be, some of us represent this brand like we are.

Another part of why we feel this sense of ownership is because you include us. Your post that I quoted is the latest proof of that. CEOs don't share that info freely. But you constantly show us that we're NOT just "customers". We're Knuckleheads. We're the EBMM army. We're your biggest champions.

Now, I can't speak for everyone else here, but in light of what you shared today, it's clear that the EBMM Army needs to step up our game. I've converted probably five people to EBMM in the past year. I need to make it ten in the next year. I started tonight. I recently joined a new band. In our last rehearsal the bass player was asking about my Silo, and I was telling him about EBMM and he said he was always curious about EBMM basses but never tried one. I hauled my PDN Honey Burst Bongo 4HH to rehearsal tonight and he was floored. Played it for the whole 3 hour rehearsal while his P-Bass sat in its gig bag. He's going to GC tomorrow... NEXT!

Keep doing what you do, BP. We have your back.

Regards,
Jeff

​

 

[DrKev]

You meen to tell us small companies like Warmoth and Carvin just to name a few have tons of options to choose from color,wood, and finish wise.

But Ernie ball can't offer these to willing paying customers? Not trying to start a war just stateing.

Absolutely. Entirely different business models, and therefore the logistics and factory stuff is necessarily different.

 

[peterd79]

coming from an owner of a small pedalboard company - I applaud EBMM for their selections of colors and models...

Here is an example of the market and the finicky nature of musicians (myself included) I took a custom order from a young man who wanted his pedalboard to be White and Gold to match his Falcon guitar... i do not stock white nor gold tolex as it is not a big seller for me and honestly the first request... so i ordered it in knowing my profit margins would be very slim on the order but nonetheless it was what the customer wanted and had ordered. Everything was ordered and the build was now ready to cover in the tolex. I get a call literally 30 minutes before i was going to wrap it and finish it up and i get a "bro! I sold that guitar i want to do black and red.. but in vox style tolex". Now I stock a standard F style tolex but not the vox style...
this one change order was $60 with the shipping and amount of materials needed
I still have the white and gold and stuck with it...

Now multiply that by oh lets say thousands of guitars EBMM makes... thats a lot of money going out for simple color changes... and to go above and beyond for someone is a tough thing to do especially when they can want to go another route at the very last minute...

 

[Lax]

From an European customer, I feel like second hand market is overdevelopped here and I hate this (this kills guitar shops every day).
A lot of us wants to buy high end guitars brand new but shops charge them around 5000$ for a majesty 6 (and our income is not double yours) !

What I mean is we don't even struggle about colours or availability and I really think whichever finish has its clients.
If your choices were translating more accurately here, thought we are a small sample, we would gladly prove your INT dealers wrong.

 

[TripHazard]

Lax, check out some of the UK sellers. Probably can't post you a link but the Majesty is just shy of £2500 at the one i'm looking at, which is about 3200 Euros - that's the new price

I'm surprised they aren't 2500 Euros in France. Reason i say that is that it appears that EBMM price in US Dollars is the price in UK Pounds Sterling. Which i do find odd considering the exchange rate should make it less in Pounds. It certainly seems that the UK pricing structure is just swap the $ sign for a £ sign.

 

[Beerandbeards]

I'm fine with just black guitars

 

[fbecir]

Lax, check out some of the UK sellers. Probably can't post you a link but the Majesty is just shy of £2500 at the one i'm looking at, which is about 3200 Euros - that's the new price

Sadly, lax is right ... the best price you can find is 3990 € ... (that's also Thomann's price).
There is long debate here on the costs of the MM guitars outside US (do a search on this forum) and UK seems to be the place where you can find the best deal (outside US of course). Thus there is one thing where UK is better than France !

 

[TripHazard]

Thanks for the info. I suppose the only plus side for lax is its relatively cheap to hop across the channel to us (much like we do to bulk buy wine from France )

 

[Big Poppa]

I do not see a big deal in finish options that are already " in the building " on how its so hard to use them oin various models? If the spray booths and guns are already shooting that finish why not go grab a axis, Luke, petrucci body and hang it up and spray the damn thing?

You meen to tell us small companies like Warmoth and Carvin just to name a few have tons of options to choose from color,wood, and finish wise.

But Ernie ball can't offer these to willing paying customers? Not trying to start a war just stateing.

1. Carvin has no distribution network...they sell direct and are able to get more money per guitar.
2. Where are the willing paying customers? Most colors we discontinued per model sold less than 5 a year. If people want a color and there is demand that fits ...we would be crazy to not offer it...Notice we didnt discontinue black?
3. How many ways can I explain that it is not just production but our distribution network and lack of focus on our brand? Once again we have tons of models Pete tried to explain from a dealers perspective how a jp6 can me made 480 different ways...and its still not enough.
Limiting the color options to something manageable allowed us to lower the street price to $1,499 on the Sting Ray and Cutlass and make it easier for the dealer to have the desired product. As a result they have been smashing successes

Bagged cereals what do you want that Im not offering? Let me know and Ill be happy to place an order for you today if it is reasonable. Is this an argument for the sake of an argument...Is there something I took away from you?

 

[Magic Jason]

The "new", and only, colour for the Albert Lee SSS is the pinkburst.

Did anyone notice it's the coolest colour ever???

 

[sanderhermans]

The "new", and only, colour for the Albert Lee SSS is the pinkburst.

Did anyone notice it's the coolest colour ever???

Yup, and the dark trans red on the HH model is verry cool too!

 

[TripHazard]

Bagged cereals what do you want that Im not offering? Let me know and Ill be happy to place an order for you today if it is reasonable. ?

Wow. Now that's customer service. Can't say fairer than that.

 

[kestrou]

1. Carvin has no distribution network...they sell direct and are able to get more money per guitar.
2. Where are the willing paying customers? Most colors we discontinued per model sold less than 5 a year. If people want a color and there is demand that fits ...we would be crazy to not offer it...Notice we didnt discontinue black?
3. How many ways can I explain that it is not just production but our distribution network and lack of focus on our brand? Once again we have tons of models Pete tried to explain from a dealers perspective how a jp6 can me made 480 different ways...and its still not enough.
Limiting the color options to something manageable allowed us to lower the street price to $1,499 on the Sting Ray and Cutlass and make it easier for the dealer to have the desired product. As a result they have been smashing successes

Bagged cereals what do you want that Im not offering? Let me know and Ill be happy to place an order for you today if it is reasonable. Is this an argument for the sake of an argument...Is there something I took away from you?

BP -

Your points above are spot on!
1. You're a manufacturer with distribution network, the economics are different to get to the same price point at the end user (ala Carvin and other "direct" manufacturers).
2. No demand, then not a standard option - I understand that perfectly.
3. Simplifying the options is good for you (manufacturer) and distributors - makes sense too.

I'll always be beating a drum for the EBMM "Custom Shop" though - so if the offer to bagged cereals is open to others, I'll take a Standard Morse in Mystic Dream, please! That's listed as a $300 upcharge on the JP page (here: John Petrucci 6 | Guitars | Ernie Ball Music Man), which I'm happy to pay.

Fair warning: give the crowd a little and then they want a lot...

Kevin