Off Topic how to stop worrying and love drum solos

[midopa]

<!doctype off_topic_bs>

i just listened to a live recording of a popular song by a well known band (nameless, im pleading the fiff) that really bored the heck out of me. just a bit into the solo i subconsciously classified it as white noise and filtered it out. after a minute or two of zombie internet trancing i recognized the solo was still going on. but i dont think its as simple as my disliking drum solos, this one just felt too long and too disparate, a jarring break in the flow of the song. im sure there are great solos and this particular example just didnt gel with me. instead of just proclaiming drum solos generally evil and avoiding them, id like to see what you guys think.

one unique solo that i liked was the buddy rich v. monster solo on that episode of the muppets (i know that doesnt help the credibility of my opinion). but i thought he was being creative while keeping it accessible and enjoyable. i read up a bit on the performance of the nameless song and some have cited how the drummer would fool around on stage as well.

is part of the appeal the theatricality of the solo that may have been lost in a vicarious listening of a live performance recording? is it an acquired taste? do i need to be able to understand and appreciate complicated and technical feats? but in that same vein, it usually doesn't sound good when a bassist just starts barfing out 64th scales in the middle of a song right? 'serve the song' has been said many times here. what are some examples of great drum solos? in your experience what factors help make a drum solo really work and when does they doesnt?

 

[bovinehost]

innagaddadavidababeeeee

 

[Holdsg]

Now he plays tons of fills thru ought every song, but I just happen to lovE a good Neil Pert live solo at a Rush concert. It's mostly because it's about as "musical" a drum solo as you are gonna hear.

 

[MSilvers]

I've generally been more a fan of quick 2-4 bar drum breaks that sort of come out of nowhere, though longer drum solos live can be fun (+1 to the Peart comment).

 

[KevinM]

The visual makes the drum solo complete.

 

[MadMatt]

As a (bad) drummer I can sympathise with Midopa. Most drum solos are simply Ego ejaculations of the drummer and have nothing to do with the song. There are very few drummers that know how to get it right. Mr. Pert is of course one of the few. I actually dont care for Buddy Rich too much but the Monster v. Buddy is a classic and really entertaining.

Some of the best solos I have seen are from drummers who managed to maintain the groove and feel of the song though the solo. This is really hard to do. One thing the bassist can do as the master of the groove is to try to make the drum solo an interaction between the bass and Drum. Something as simple as taking over the kick line during the solo helps maintain that groove and the drummer will probably be happy to have less to think about Also try to get the drummer to start the solo with a variation of the groove, do his ego thing, and then return to that groove between phrases of the solo. That helps keep the listener from drifting off too far

 

[fly]

the Monster has a name........


ANIMAL......

 

[adouglas]

I proclaim drum solos generally evil and avoid them.

In my book the only thing worse than a drum solo is a bass solo. Followed closely by extended Guitar Ghod wanking.

(Insert old, worn-out African safari drum and bass joke here.)

Stuff like this just isn't necessary, IMHO. It's overblown embellishment. It's breast enhancement surgery (not a fan). It's too much makeup on a beautiful woman. It's loading all your food down with salt and hot sauce. It's coffee with four sugars, a quart of milk and three shots of flavored syrup in it.

It is the inability of ANYONE to sing the national anthem without tarting it up and displaying their aptitude for vocal gymnastics. JUST ONCE I'd like to hear that song done straight.

If you like that sort of thing, great. But to me, simpler is better.

Your Honor, in my defense I hold up Exhibit A, the entire Beatles catalog, which contains but one drum solo. Said solo appears towards the end of the last track* of the last album of a celebrated career. It is short, tasteful and arguably an integral part of the song.

*"Her Majesty" is more of a signoff, not a real track."

 

[njhammer]

AD, you are bang on, especially regarding the national anthem.

I do, however, have a soft spot for Deep Purple's "The Mule".

 

[mmbassplayer]

Ego ejaculations

Haha!

 

[oddjob]

The whole solo thing fascinates me (guitar, drum, bass... whatever). I remember when I was given a 5 min spot in a set to wank about. I worked up what I think was a pretty decent spot... then I got to thinking (a scary thing we bassist do) that it served no purpose other than to massage my ego. In a cover band nothing clears a floor faster than a solo and in an original band (under MOST circumstances) a solo breaks with the vibe that band has worked so hard to set up. I saw Yes on the 9021LIVE tour (and many other times), Alan White had a great solo (and the rest of the band had some great stuff) but each solo broke the groove of what was otherwise one of the tightest, best produced arena shows I had ever seen. The solos were great from a musician standpoint but really didn't further the show.

To me, if the crowd is "feeling" the beat and I go unnoticed it is a great night. As said above, serve the song. But that's just me.

Would be very curious to hear from our pros (Luke, DaveM , Cliff, Craig, etc.) on their thoughts on solos... both in a song and as a piece in a live setting.

 

[stu42]

Personally, I think it's like anything else in this world. There are good and bad examples of just about everything - coffee, apple pie, clothing, cars etc etc

But it's all subjective so what I like may not appeal to a lot of other people and vice versa. I'm not a huge fan of a lot of drum solos myself but there are some that are pretty damn cool. As mentioned, Neil Peart does a great job of making his drum solos musical and I like that. In other words, I feel like there's something in his solos that creates a sense of movement and theme and even a bit of melody - which I think is not easy to do. You feel like it's going somewhere and not just a bunch of random banging. But those are the same elements that are important in music in general.

I'd guess that most people don't care for drum solos. I think one of the more important aspects of any performance is...making sure you have the right audience for the performance. Accessibility is relative. Any type of performance could be a turnoff if the audience isn't prepared to hear what's being played - it doesn't matter how great the performer is.

 

[drTStingray]

In my book the only thing worse than a drum solo is a bass solo[/SIZE]

I don't usually disagree with you A Douglas but how about My Generation (The Who) - I can't imagine that without the bass solo or Black Knight (Deep Purple) - fabulous 2 bar drum breaks IMO - wouldn't be the same without them, and it'd be like taking away the wild Blackmore guitar solo. I play in a tribute band and we do a song called Nivram - it has a bass solo in it - great fun to play, v nerve racking, and usually gets a round of polite applause - but we'd be booed off by the officianados if there wasn't a bass solo - at least that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!

However I do agree generally - drum solos can be a bit lame -hands up anyone who's played in a band where the drummer plays a solo over everyone elses solos as well (or at least it sounds like it!!). I blame modern mixing of music - you know the sort of thing, where the bass guitar and the bass drum are the same volume, the rythmn guitar/keyboards and the ride cymbal are the same volume.......basically this makes the drum kit the loudest thing on the record behind the vocals.

BTW as well as being called ANIMAL, I have it on good authority he had another name - Ronnie Verrall - a great drummer.

 

[DTG]

AD I am totally with u on the solo issue you are right on the money.

I have often wondered why we see a "national tantrum " instead of someone just singing the damn song.

But I won't lie to you I will not even try to see your point on breast enlargement issue

 

[MrMusashi]

just use new-words and it doesnt sound so bad.. like frontalaugmentation

drum solo would be rhythmdeviation section, bass solo would be beavertail section.. heheh

MrM

 

[adouglas]

I don't usually disagree with you A Douglas but how about My Generation (The Who) - I can't imagine that without the bass solo.

I don't really think of that bit as a solo. It's not an interruption to the song... it fits inside the structure and is integral to the music. It's a call and response to the guitar. Just like the bass line to "The Real Me" from Quadrophenia. I'd never call that line a solo but it's much the same as what Ox did in "My Generation."

To me a solo is "Okay, the song stops here and we let the artiste go off and do his own thing for awhile. We're stepping off stage for a smoke and a cup of coffee. See you in a couple of minutes."

The Peart solos are like that (at least the one I saw on film was... never seen Rush live). They're not part of the song... they're a separate performance piece by themselves. They do not rely on the context of the rest of the song and could just as easily be done as a solo act.

 

[MK Bass Weed]

innagaddadavidababeeeee

Drum solo highlight

Di di - di di- di di

Dum Dum

-

Di di - di di- di di

Dum Dum

Di Duh
Di Duh
Di Duh duh duh.

I pretty much know the whole solo!

 

[AnthonyD]

I proclaim drum solos generally evil and avoid them.

In my book the only thing worse than a drum solo is a bass solo. Followed closely by extended Guitar Ghod wanking.

(Insert old, worn-out African safari drum and bass joke here.)

Stuff like this just isn't necessary, IMHO. It's overblown embellishment. It's breast enhancement surgery (not a fan). It's too much makeup on a beautiful woman. It's loading all your food down with salt and hot sauce. It's coffee with four sugars, a quart of milk and three shots of flavored syrup in it.

It is the inability of ANYONE to sing the national anthem without tarting it up and displaying their aptitude for vocal gymnastics. JUST ONCE I'd like to hear that song done straight.

If you like that sort of thing, great. But to me, simpler is better.

Your Honor, in my defense I hold up Exhibit A, the entire Beatles catalog, which contains but one drum solo. Said solo appears towards the end of the last track* of the last album of a celebrated career. It is short, tasteful and arguably an integral part of the song.

*"Her Majesty" is more of a signoff, not a real track."

+1

Well said!

 

[Holdsg]

I grew up listening to the Grateful Dead. Been to probably 15 live shows. I know, blame the hippie parents.
Everyone in the audience, at every Dead show, expects a 20 minute DRUMMMMZZZZZ solo by Bill Kreutzmann and Mickey Hart, and the boys never disappointed.

Nearly every Jazz trio I have ever listened to or played in will have solo breaks for each instrument. That's again, expected.

So within the context of the music and expectation of the audience, a drum solo can fit very well. However, when not within the context, or not contributing to the completeness of a song, a drum solo can be very disruptive at best, and at worst really lame.

 

[supadave]

Only one drummer should ever have been allowed to play a solo....I forget his name, but he played for a little known band called Led Zeppelin. Outside of that, drum solos are scientifically proven to be gay.