I am not satisfied

[luke69]

Hello I am very angry
it's a copy of my answers in EBMM French forum I would like to have your opinion

But at the prices(prizes) or it is proposed in France 5090€ a JP bfr or exactly 6 916.29 US $ while it is 2799 us bottom(stocking,bottoms,stockings) and still not negotiated or 2 059.91€ somebody can explain ca it is not the taken of a standard model in France needs not to take people that for stupids it is more double(copy) yes I know expenses taxes and others charges but finally in ........
Then all right they are beautiful but they are made for the americain market a point it is any .a most of us Would possess not one but surement many others and it is what drank him(it) of a manufacturer? If it is not to produce let us continue to dreaming
If we are going to look for them and what we pay taxes it is even cheaper
I do not attack(affect) HTD in this sending because their professionalisme and their courtesy is not any more has to prove, it would be very nevertheless that they re-act face to face of EBMM when I hear(understand) musicians who tell to buy F....R or other to thomann in germany for fear of made dings their ebmm especially has this price(prize) the ..........
Also needs that we play with, needs to be careful with them but in regard to the price........
Would need to sell them cheaper has HTD whom I am on there would re-collide it cheaper =- of margin, more sale =more of mass of margin... needs to choose
low we can try it in store here needs to buy them for that

We love EBMM products but it's very nice to see BFR or other and it's very nice to have also

for example i've paid my Dargie Luke 3 363.03 $...........how many cost a BFR in U.S.A.....
there is too many difference beetween
IT'S NOT SERIOUS

 

[parker_bb]

translation issues to the max right here???

 

[Axilla]

Hey luke69,
severe problems with the English description above but we all know about the retail pricings in Europe and that they are by far higher than in the US.
Nevertheless I think it is not really appropriate to post such (and/or so much) angry faces here. BP already stressed a few times some reasons for the European pricing. Sorry mon ami, but this reads a little too much of a bashing to me.
Maybe CS might post sort of an official answer here, but please - the angry faces don't match the issue here.
All the best
Axel

 

[luke69]

Hey luke69,
severe problems with the English description above but we all know about the retail pricings in Europe and that they are by far higher than in the US.
Nevertheless I think it is not really appropriate to post such (and/or so much) angry faces here. BP already stressed a few times some reasons for the European pricing. Sorry mon ami, but this reads a little too much of a bashing to me.
Maybe CS might post sort of an official answer here, but please - the angry faces don't match the issue here.
All the best
Axel

OK Axilla
sorry for my english for the first time i've used a translator i see that it was no good i never did it again

but it's a sort of S.O.S
i play on EBMM since 15 years and my dream was that BFR exist (i've posted photoshoped proto bfr since 2 or 3 years)on this forum
the difference between regular and Bfr LUKE in US IS +-50% and in France more than 100%...
Can you tell us the price in Germany..please. of a Luke BFR

we want also to buy some BFR ON the French Forum and we look at the pics and that's all.
maybe i was not so angry than i've frustrated
sorry to expose this on this Forum but it's EBMM Forum
and a forum could be translucent no?
all the best also...

 

[silverburst]

I already had a headache when I started reading this post.

Is there any way to take the frowny face icon away from us forumites?

 

[fbecir]

Hello Luke69

I agree with Axilla. The pricing issue is not really a good topic in this forum, because it depends too much on the regulation of every country.
In France, we have a VAT of 19.6 % so you cannot compare with USA. After that, with have the margin of the distributor, the margin of the shop, the import cost and so on ... Music Man can eventually discuss the margin of the distributor but after that what can they do ???
The American Dream is expansive on this side of the ocean ...

 

[luke69]

Hello Luke69

I agree with Axilla. The pricing issue is not really a good topic in this forum, because it depends too much on the regulation of every country.
In France, we have a VAT of 19.6 % so you cannot compare with USA. After that, with have the margin of the distributor, the margin of the shop, the import cost and so on ... Music Man can eventually discuss the margin of the distributor but after that what can they do ???
The American Dream is expansive on this side of the ocean ...

ok it's not the good place for this
ok it's no good to use mad smiley on this forum

can you tell me which forum i have to use
i 'v post the same also on French Forum
i never said that EBMM was not a good material or nothing else just saying that Bfr was not for me and a lot of musicians in France...well
i think that you can closed this thread
before i would like to hve the point of view of BP thanks you

 

[Luc]

Here in Holland, the listprice of a BFR JP6 is €4595,- and the BFR Luke's listprice is €3995,- . I agree that's a lot of money, but to be honest I don't compare the US and European pricing anymore. It's just the way it is. I also believe that, when looking at other guitar brands that make high end guitars, Balls aren't THAT expensive overall, looking at the woods used, the options offered and the unbeatable craftsmenship. If someone really wants an EBMM in Europe, they will get one no matter what they'll cost.

Another positive point of the pricing of the BFRs in Europe is that it will be a rare bird, and you'll know you've got something special, even more than a regular Ball, which you don't see that often.

PS: BP, I believe you scare some people haha

 

[bovinehost]

This particular subject - US pricing versus Rest of World pricing - has been discussed in great detail by more than a few people at EBMM, including BP. I think I know his views on this, but I'd be more comfortable with BP responding rather than me regurgitating what I think he said.

Meanwhile, I'm closing the thread because aside from BP or one of the international sales staff, you'll just get opinions and we know how that goes.

BP can certainly open a closed thread, so let's go with that approach.

Jack

 

[Big Poppa]

Luke69 and all

First off is our guitar the only imported guitar that is higher in your country? I dont think so...so either there is a great conspiracy that is industry wide where we get together in a dark smoky room and collectivley decide to make all American guitars out of reach....OR your country adds 20% right away, the distributor needs a margin to provide service and selection marketing credit for your market...even pay for the forum so you can tell them that an imported guitar is more expensive in your country.
THere are a lot of NECESSARY hands in the distrbution chain and hungry governments, and expensive freight handlers........

I wish there was a way for us to make things the same but if I had that magic formula I wouldnt be selling guitars...I would be buying islands and small tropical countries with red headed beauties with amnesia hand feeding me huckleberries with my profits.



YOu must look at your purchases of imported goods on a relative basis....How do we stack up against a top of the line PRS for example. THis is not a bash in any way on PRS as I love those guys but you must make an objective purchasing decision based on your maket conditions.
Thanks and Im sorry that it isnt working for you

In this internet world you will probably get a better response from the fellow forumites if frowny faces and titles like Im not satisfied, and starting threads with I am angry, when you just have frustration with the international distribution model

Im going to open this again but if it gets ugly or stupid I will close again......

 

[Axilla]

Thank you Pops for this very comprehensive and understandable statement (from the non-native speaker view).
It clears up nicely on what I guessed would be the reasons why.

Thanks again !

Axel

 

[Dead-Eye]

Luke69 and all

First off is our guitar the only imported guitar that is higher in your country?

That's not supposed to be critisizing or anything, just an observation: It seems to me that the price difference with EBMM is more extreme than most other brands.

Let's take a Silo Spec. Based on the price at musiciansfriend, it's about a 100% more expensive here. A PRS Custom 24 is only 50% more expensive, an American Deluxe Strat 35%. An Axis about 100% again.

As I said, I don't want to complain, but I do wonder why that's so.

 

[luke69]

Luke69 and all

First off is our guitar the only imported guitar that is higher in your country? I dont think so...so either there is a great conspiracy that is industry wide where we get together in a dark smoky room and collectivley decide to make all American guitars out of reach....OR your country adds 20% right away, the distributor needs a margin to provide service and selection marketing credit for your market...even pay for the forum so you can tell them that an imported guitar is more expensive in your country.
THere are a lot of NECESSARY hands in the distrbution chain and hungry governments, and expensive freight handlers........

I wish there was a way for us to make things the same but if I had that magic formula I wouldnt be selling guitars...I would be buying islands and small tropical countries with red headed beauties with amnesia hand feeding me huckleberries with my profits.



YOu must look at your purchases of imported goods on a relative basis....How do we stack up against a top of the line PRS for example. THis is not a bash in any way on PRS as I love those guys but you must make an objective purchasing decision based on your maket conditions.
Thanks and Im sorry that it isnt working for you

In this internet world you will probably get a better response from the fellow forumites if frowny faces and titles like Im not satisfied, and starting threads with I am angry, when you just have frustration with the international distribution model

Im going to open this again but if it gets ugly or stupid I will close again......

Thanks BP for your answer and re-opening this thread
i let you make an answer to martyhk0........
but my intention wasn't to create an incident on this Forum
when you loving a brand(EBMM) when every day you speak about it and when something seems to you no good ?must have you to say nothing or all is good all the time ,and you create the better guitar and we don't play with it.
i'm agree with the point of vue of Dead-Eye we are ok thats they are more expensive we know why perhaps it's the market's price in France compare with PRS private stock.

 

[kevin]

It's sounds like your comparing street price to retail price.....and not taking into account the exchane rate in your % differances. The best analogy I give our customers is when I go to purchase a bottle of fine Italian wine I will naturally pay 2-3 times it's normal country of origin price.....the same goes for a gourmet piece of Eurpean Chocolate(offered at Cost Plus World Market) Those chocaltes are 400% more than our standard chocolate bar.

 

[Big Poppa]

prs is the same differential

Marty I know your heart is in the right place but name calling is a little too extreme.
Also I agree with the detractors of this forum that the level of tolerance for critisism is too small..I have been very guilty of this and have seen the light. I think that he makes a good point that a bfr at 6000 euros is a steep price and he may have had dreams of it dashed because of his situation.

Marty you make an excellent point in the Euro has been kicking our ever lovin arse and if your thread stated that it would be good conversation but callin him frenchie and a baby just diluted the effectivness of your otherwise great point.

I really want this to be a place where we can discuss points of views without frowny faces expressions of anger and namecalling something this thread has had a lot of.

 

[TwAn]

Threads like this just want to make me work a bit harder... Earn some money, so I can buy another EBMM!

All good things in life come at a price, live with it... (except maybe real love, but.... who will tell....)

 

[Dead-Eye]

It's sounds like your comparing street price to retail price.....and not taking into account the exchane rate in your % differances.

The US prices all came from musiciansfriend, the German ones from musik-produktiv.de. And these are already considerably below than the list prices over here and I'd assume it's similar with MF. And of course I converted both amounts into the same currency (using current exchange rates) before I calculated the percentage.

 

[Big Poppa]

Dead Eye MF is not the same as retail here. THey get deals from certain manufactures rebates etc and sometimes they use a line as a loss leader.

We really dont need to continue the fine details because retail vs retail in both countries there is a differential between countries and not guitars.

 

[DrKev]

The international distribution model is a necessary evil. That's just how it is. The problem is that the consumer sees just one thing - the guitar starts at the factory and ends up in our hands. For what seems like exactly the same thing, the Europeans pay a lot more than their transatlantic cousins.

I remember a thread not so long ago where people were talking about how much it costs to FedEx guitars across the US (some guy was ripped off by his step dad, charging $130 to do it for him, or something like that?). Why is the cost to me ten times as much per instrument to go twice the distance when we do a bulk shipments to keep the costs down?? Makes no sense to me and yet is perfectly sensible at the same time. Quite a logical conundrum. Bravo to the international distribution model! (Dear EBMM, please FedEx all orders directly to the European stores rather than use traditional distribution methods...)

I'm a working musician, not earning much money, some months are below minimum wage and some are better than I earned as a scientist. Most, however, are on the lower side of in between. There is absolutely no way in the foreseeable future I can afford a new EBMM from a store in Europe. Why should I when I can get an excellent condition second hand guitar from the other side of the world for less than half the price? Who sold that beautiful CBP Luke a few months back for $1200? Not much more than 1/3 (!!) the cost of a new guitar here.

So, what advantage is the current system to us Europeans? In the long term, yes we support our favourite manufacturer, keeping the name, brand, and image in the stores for all to see, explore and enjoy. On the other hand, with EBMMs stellar reputation I don't expect my warranty to come into play, short of a total re-fret I can fix most issues my self and I'm not bothered by cosmetic flaws or stress cracks or what not. In the short term, to me as a lone, individual, solitary customer who just want a good reliable instrument, the advantages to me seem limited, at best.

As Aunt Lucious might say - somebody somewhere is giving me carpet burns on my hands and knees and stretch marks on my mouth while taking my wallet out my hip pocket (or at least it sure feels that way).

As to Marty's point (yes, good call BP) in the US you guys generally have higher incomes and a lot more disposable income than we do. And look at your gas prices - we havn't seen prices that LOW in decades! Yes, my father's USVA pension has been trashed by the exchange rate in the last ten years, but talking about exchange rate does not tell the full story. How many European 16 y.o. have a driving liscence, never mind a car with their name on it? (BTW, In everything I mention above, I am always changing €s to their $ equivalent before making comparisons).

 

[kevin]

The US prices all came from musiciansfriend, the German ones from musik-produktiv.de. And these are already considerably below than the list prices over here and I'd assume it's similar with MF. And of course I converted both amounts into the same currency (using current exchange rates) before I calculated the percentage.

musiciansfriend posts(oops BP got it).......if anybody has any specific pricing inquires please feel free to e-mail me. [email protected]