- Thread starter kenito
- Start date
There's been a couple which detail what you can expect to pay on importing used basses legally...
http://www.ernieball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9845
http://www.ernieball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13991
Basically, it's broken down as follows:
({(Price + Shipping)*1.032} + £6)*1.175) + £10
1.032 is import duty at 3.2%
£6 is VAT adjustment
1.175 is VAT
£10 is the carrier's fees for processing the item through customs.
I've seen and quoted other figures for import duty. I'm not sure where insurance gets put, whether it's a one-off fee or whether it gets included as shipping (and therefore gets duty and VAT added)
At the price most EBMM basses go used, you're pretty safe if you factor in an additional $300 - $350 to take shipping and taxes into account, assuming $100 shipping fees.
To decrease the overall cost, you're either going to have to reduce the shipping cost or artificially reduce the taxes by misdeclaring the value. That could, of course, get you into a heap of trouble.
Reducing the shipping costs could be achieved by removing the neck and sending in a smaller package.
http://www.ernieball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9845
http://www.ernieball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13991
Basically, it's broken down as follows:
({(Price + Shipping)*1.032} + £6)*1.175) + £10
1.032 is import duty at 3.2%
£6 is VAT adjustment
1.175 is VAT
£10 is the carrier's fees for processing the item through customs.
I've seen and quoted other figures for import duty. I'm not sure where insurance gets put, whether it's a one-off fee or whether it gets included as shipping (and therefore gets duty and VAT added)
At the price most EBMM basses go used, you're pretty safe if you factor in an additional $300 - $350 to take shipping and taxes into account, assuming $100 shipping fees.
To decrease the overall cost, you're either going to have to reduce the shipping cost or artificially reduce the taxes by misdeclaring the value. That could, of course, get you into a heap of trouble.
Reducing the shipping costs could be achieved by removing the neck and sending in a smaller package.
Hi Kenito,
If you're caught trying to devalue the instrument, it could get seized by Customs and then you have to think of that Customs agent rocking out on your instrument. Boooo....
"Cheap" and "reliable" aren't usually in the same sentence when considering importing anything -- what would be the problem with buying it from your local dealer?
-Beth
If you're caught trying to devalue the instrument, it could get seized by Customs and then you have to think of that Customs agent rocking out on your instrument. Boooo....
"Cheap" and "reliable" aren't usually in the same sentence when considering importing anything -- what would be the problem with buying it from your local dealer?
-Beth
oldbluebassman
Well-known member
Kenito, I've imported three MMs and other equipment from the USA to the UK in the last 3 years. Follow the rules regarding shipping and values, declare the actual value, use someone like Fedex where you can track the shipment, pay the duties and taxes and its very straightforward. Dave's figures above are pretty much spot on.
BTW Beth I couldn't have got these from a local dealer. One was an unusual '80 Ray, one was an '80 Cutlass and the '03 SR5 was Pacific Blue Burst (never seen another in the UK ever) and was a very reasonable price at a time whan it was $1.9 to the £.
It's just a fact of commerce that EB has an extra mouth to feed in the supply chain compared with your domestic sales, and that does inflate prices. What with the Internet and favourable exchange rates you can't blame us for wanting to get a good deal.
BTW Beth I couldn't have got these from a local dealer. One was an unusual '80 Ray, one was an '80 Cutlass and the '03 SR5 was Pacific Blue Burst (never seen another in the UK ever) and was a very reasonable price at a time whan it was $1.9 to the £.
It's just a fact of commerce that EB has an extra mouth to feed in the supply chain compared with your domestic sales, and that does inflate prices. What with the Internet and favourable exchange rates you can't blame us for wanting to get a good deal.
No, I don't blame you for wanting to get a good deal, we're all discriminating consumers. What I don't want to see is a US dealer who has signed a legal contract with us, breaching those contract terms and lying to us for the sake of UK demand.
oldbluebassman
Well-known member
Understood. Mine were all private purchases.
Just out of interest how would someone stand if they flew to the USA , bought an instrument while they were there and carried it back with them?
Just out of interest how would someone stand if they flew to the USA , bought an instrument while they were there and carried it back with them?
IMHO, I don't think it would be fair to tell someone that they can't walk into a shop in the USA, buy something, and then bring it home with them. However, I have heard that some US dealers have breached contract and been caught so many times that they are not even allowed to sell to someone on vacation from a different country. They have screwed themselves in order to respond to international demand for a good deal. Sucks to be them.
Big Poppa
Well-known member
Listen
This is coming up alot these days. It is a good thing in that there is more demand for our product. There is an extra mouth to feed but they provide a set of very valuable tools and support. They handle warranty, spare parts, advertising, warehousing and a host of essential services. I think the biggest reason to support your local distributor is for that support.
This is coming up alot these days. It is a good thing in that there is more demand for our product. There is an extra mouth to feed but they provide a set of very valuable tools and support. They handle warranty, spare parts, advertising, warehousing and a host of essential services. I think the biggest reason to support your local distributor is for that support.
oldbluebassman
Well-known member
Thanks BP.
Although now retired, I spent my working life in the international electronics industry and fully understand what you are saying. Unfortunately many, especially the younger among us, and I correspond with a lot of them through Forums like Bassworld.co.uk, have no knowledge how commerce works or how these support and marketing functions get funded. All they see is a price differential. Perhaps basic commerce should be on the school curriculum.
Although now retired, I spent my working life in the international electronics industry and fully understand what you are saying. Unfortunately many, especially the younger among us, and I correspond with a lot of them through Forums like Bassworld.co.uk, have no knowledge how commerce works or how these support and marketing functions get funded. All they see is a price differential. Perhaps basic commerce should be on the school curriculum.
oldbluebassman
Well-known member
Also maybe the EBMM Product Manager at Strings and Things, if they have such a person, should be a little more visible to the UK market through sites like Bassworld. Marketing and promotion isn't just about placing adverts, attending trade shows and placing instruments with prominent users.
BTW I have no connection with bassworld other than as a member. Last month we had a get-together of over 40 bassists from the UK where we each took some of our equipment for the others to try. I took my '80 preEB Ray and, because it was properly set-up, managed to change several members opinions about Stingrays. They had previously tried bad to indifferent instruments in shops and formed a bad opinions of them.
BTW I have no connection with bassworld other than as a member. Last month we had a get-together of over 40 bassists from the UK where we each took some of our equipment for the others to try. I took my '80 preEB Ray and, because it was properly set-up, managed to change several members opinions about Stingrays. They had previously tried bad to indifferent instruments in shops and formed a bad opinions of them.
bassmonkey
Well-known member
Hi BP,
Hope you enjoyed your vacation.
My problem with shops in the UK is one of variety. I live in a small city. We have a shop here that stocks EBMM products. However, they have a limited range due to demand being low(due to the local population).
I fancy a 5 string next, however, if I'm lucky they may have an SR5 in stock for me to try, but no chance of a Bongo(4 or 5 string!) in any configuration or any of the twin PUP SRs.
You can't really blame people who go on vacation to the US, visit a store there, where they can try every configuration of Bongo/Stingray, buy it and even with taxes paid at the airport, end up paying less than if they bought in the UK.
I realise these issues are not your fault and you cannot really do much about the mark up UK shops put on the product. You have heard about rip-off Britain haven't you.
I just thought you should be aware of the issues pertaining to EBMM fans in the UK, if you are not already aware of this.
Hope you enjoyed your vacation.
My problem with shops in the UK is one of variety. I live in a small city. We have a shop here that stocks EBMM products. However, they have a limited range due to demand being low(due to the local population).
I fancy a 5 string next, however, if I'm lucky they may have an SR5 in stock for me to try, but no chance of a Bongo(4 or 5 string!) in any configuration or any of the twin PUP SRs.
You can't really blame people who go on vacation to the US, visit a store there, where they can try every configuration of Bongo/Stingray, buy it and even with taxes paid at the airport, end up paying less than if they bought in the UK.
I realise these issues are not your fault and you cannot really do much about the mark up UK shops put on the product. You have heard about rip-off Britain haven't you.
I just thought you should be aware of the issues pertaining to EBMM fans in the UK, if you are not already aware of this.
bovinehost
Administrator
These issues have come up often enough that I know for a fact that BP is well aware of them.
Or anywhere else in the world - no, you can't blame the customer. But EBMM does hold the retailers responsible, and while I can't control where the bass goes after I sell it inside the United States, I have to be aware of what I'm doing.
If we're talking used instruments, then let the games begin.
If we're talking new instruments, then the customer who buys in the States and takes it to Finland or Iceland or Slovakia has no warranty.
And if you think your selection of instruments is spotty now, what happens if the lone distributor in Finland or Iceland or Slovakia goes under because customers are importing used instruments (or somehow skirting the dealer agreements and getting new ones)?
I'm a consumer, too, as you all know. (Especially if by consumer, we really mean 'senseless gear whore'.) I can relate to the limited selection or availability and the price differential, so I'm not preaching here. I get it.
But I think we're talking about used instruments anyway, right?
Jack
Or anywhere else in the world - no, you can't blame the customer. But EBMM does hold the retailers responsible, and while I can't control where the bass goes after I sell it inside the United States, I have to be aware of what I'm doing.
If we're talking used instruments, then let the games begin.
If we're talking new instruments, then the customer who buys in the States and takes it to Finland or Iceland or Slovakia has no warranty.
And if you think your selection of instruments is spotty now, what happens if the lone distributor in Finland or Iceland or Slovakia goes under because customers are importing used instruments (or somehow skirting the dealer agreements and getting new ones)?
I'm a consumer, too, as you all know. (Especially if by consumer, we really mean 'senseless gear whore'.) I can relate to the limited selection or availability and the price differential, so I'm not preaching here. I get it.
But I think we're talking about used instruments anyway, right?
Jack
oldbluebassman
Well-known member
I had assumed that Kenito was talking about importing a used instrument. Mine were used so no problems there.
The bigger issue for many companies, EBMM included, is trying to get the potential buyer to understand WHY there is a difference in price between the US and the UK. The Internet has made prices much more visible, but I'm puzzled why the issue only ever seems to get raised from the UK. What about the rest of Europe?
Many of the people I talk to think that, based on US prices, the dealer making a killing. No-one seems able, or ever wants to, sell the difference so that the potential buyer can see the added-value. This leaves the potential buyer thinking that he's being conned by the dealer. You are so right about warranty but most people only ever see price. I suspect that once someone has seen a lower price they become blinkered. Maybe it's down to sales training?
Back to some points raised earlier, Kenito, if you get the seller to undervalue the item you're shipping to reduce the duty and it goes awol, you've had it, also it's illegal. British customs are no fools. They know what things are worth. I won a used Epifani 502 head for a very good price recently and when it got to the UK Customs wanted a copy of the ebay invoice just to prove what I'd actually paid for it.
The bigger issue for many companies, EBMM included, is trying to get the potential buyer to understand WHY there is a difference in price between the US and the UK. The Internet has made prices much more visible, but I'm puzzled why the issue only ever seems to get raised from the UK. What about the rest of Europe?
Many of the people I talk to think that, based on US prices, the dealer making a killing. No-one seems able, or ever wants to, sell the difference so that the potential buyer can see the added-value. This leaves the potential buyer thinking that he's being conned by the dealer. You are so right about warranty but most people only ever see price. I suspect that once someone has seen a lower price they become blinkered. Maybe it's down to sales training?
Back to some points raised earlier, Kenito, if you get the seller to undervalue the item you're shipping to reduce the duty and it goes awol, you've had it, also it's illegal. British customs are no fools. They know what things are worth. I won a used Epifani 502 head for a very good price recently and when it got to the UK Customs wanted a copy of the ebay invoice just to prove what I'd actually paid for it.
bassmonkey
Well-known member
Ok, Jack. Fair point. Then perhaps we are talking about customer service. This particular store recently sold me a GK-1001RB Mk II head and GK 4X10 cab. Not a "pocket money" purchase. I took my SRs along to try the various amps out. The guy dealing with me, who just happened to be the son of the store owner, was admiring my basses and telling me what a great product they are, and how whenever he sells a MM product the customer is always satisfied. He also asked me my day job, so I told him, so now he knows I earn very good money, no finance deals for me. Anyway, as I was leaving, I say to him, "If you ever get a 5 string Bongo in stock, let me know and I'll come down and try it", I leave him my cellphone number (hint, hint!). Well, 2 months later I'm still waiting for that call. This guy knows I can easily afford a Bongo, I'm eager to try one and would most probably end up buying it. He also happens to be next in line to own the store, yet he cannot be bothered to chase a sale. Boy, business must be really good in the UK. It's not just this store. I've also heard tell of a store in London that stocks a huge selection of gear, including EBMM stuff, who are actually rude to their potential customers.
My next bass purchase will be discretionary(ie because I would like it, rather than need it for my gigging), so I say f**k the UK and its poor customer service. If the shops go under then so be it. Perhaps they should be asking the question why no-one really wants to deal with them. I may be travelling to California in the next 12-18 months, that is where I will be making my next purchase.
Big Poppa
Well-known member
Here is what I don't get......
WE have the same problem in America. Getting dealers to understand stock and promote our instruments is like pulling teeth. Presto along comes the internet and some US dealers that get it join the forum and develop relationships directly with consumers and sell a boatload of stuff. Not one UK dealer bothers to get involved here.
Here is opportunity to be the UK Jack or Pete Steve, etc, and gain customers that you would never see...alll you have to do is participate.......
Maybe some of you rabid consumers can try to get a dealer to hang out here and service you guys and gals of the UK?
WE have the same problem in America. Getting dealers to understand stock and promote our instruments is like pulling teeth. Presto along comes the internet and some US dealers that get it join the forum and develop relationships directly with consumers and sell a boatload of stuff. Not one UK dealer bothers to get involved here.
Here is opportunity to be the UK Jack or Pete Steve, etc, and gain customers that you would never see...alll you have to do is participate.......
Maybe some of you rabid consumers can try to get a dealer to hang out here and service you guys and gals of the UK?
Last edited:
bassmonkey
Well-known member
Big Poppa said:
Wow, that would be cool, selling the instruments I love. Bringing that joy into other peoples lives. However, it would be too much of a risk and I'm no risk taker. My present 'gig' pays well, is very secure and I trained an awful long time to do it.
Interesting your comments on UK dealers. I have been playing for 25 years, and have met nothing but indifference from them. This last guy was ok, even though he could not be bothered to get a Bongo in. However, one of his employees actually came over to me and asked me to turn the amp down!!! WTF! I had words with the son of the owner over that. If I am going to be forking out a considerable sum of my hard earned cash for something then I want to test it properly. I will not put up with some spotty youth telling me to turn it down. these are the sorts of things we have to deal with here in the UK.
Thanks for the info.
My question concerns used EBMM gear and in particular I'm looking for recommended carriers to send some parts (essentially a stingray body) to the UK.
Both Fedex and UPS are quoting $250 which makes the deal kinda prohibitively expensive. So if anyone, who has done this before, has some recommended carriers for considerably less than $250 it would be much appreciated.
Cheers, K
My question concerns used EBMM gear and in particular I'm looking for recommended carriers to send some parts (essentially a stingray body) to the UK.
Both Fedex and UPS are quoting $250 which makes the deal kinda prohibitively expensive. So if anyone, who has done this before, has some recommended carriers for considerably less than $250 it would be much appreciated.
Cheers, K
