Insane European prices

[F Clef Jean]

Not much a question rather than a remark.

I ordered a SR HS5 in a with a retailer here in Belgium in september. They told me then it would cost me about 1.900 to 2.000 euro's (2.700 to 2.850 dollar). When I went to pick it up by the end of november I was charged 2.300 euro's or almost 3.300 dollars!!! That's twice the price I would have payed on an American web shop. TWICE! Now I have nothing against profits and export rates and all that, but this is a bit over the top in my opinion.
I don't think I'll buy a US-made bass ever again. For that kind of money i'll buy 3 brand new MIM Fender basses. Or even better, for that kind of money I could easilly travel to the US and back to buy my bass there.

Valuable lesson learned here.

 

[Colin]

why wasn't the original price quoted honored?

 

[Jimmyb]

Dear France,

I would like to complain, as the French wine that I bought in my local shop is far more expensive than it is in France.

I suggest in future that all transport and import costs are negated, so that I can buy this wine at the same price that it is in the country of manufacture.

Love
Jimmy

 

[Jimmyb]

Seriously, the whole pricing thing has been done to death, but, Colin has a good point. If the dealer told you a price, that should be the price you pay.

Go back to the dealer and complain to them.

 

[Bart B]

Hi Jean,

I'm from Belgium as well,
prices are very high here for musicman instruments, and it's just the way it is, and ordering from german internet stores ain't much cheaper these days either.

If you want that bass cheaper I suggest you try: (if not ok with mods just delete


-Bassshop strings&things Antwerp
-Leo Caerts Leuven

or:

-Ordering a limited edition musicman from Basscentral (2 years after release date), so this year, the LTD 2008 models are available for shipping to europe
(as well as the 2007, 30th...)

I ordered my 2007 HS stingray there and it was EUR 1800 (including taxes here at customs)

I saw the same bass in a dutch shop for 2600..

hope this helps,

Bart

 

[Hellboy]

Dear France,

I would like to complain, as the French wine that I bought in my local shop is far more expensive than it is in France.

I suggest in future that all transport and import costs are negated, so that I can buy this wine at the same price that it is in the country of manufacture.

Love
Jimmy

Actually, to confuse things even more, fine french wine is actually less expensive here in Sweden than it is in France because of the alcohol monopoly we have here. One big company in a rather small country that buys huge quantities from the manufacturer gets better prices than smaller companies in bigger countries that buy smaller quantities..... So you should come to Sweden instead of France to buy fine french wine....

Fender has no local sales agents these days here in Europe. Fender Europe sell to the music stores in all european countries. They have a big show room in Germany (Frankfurt?). Seem like they think that local agents costs too much so they have a european sales office instead to keep costs down. They are the only ones that have done this up till now to my knowledge but I guess that others will follow since Europe more and more can be regarded as one grand country with EU/Euro and all that. The market is changing.

//J

 

[Sonnyonbass]

Yep!
Buy a Limited edition from 2 years ago. (Basscentral has plenty I believe)

Or do as I do.
Buy a ticket to the US in a certain period and with a cheap airline.
Go to your favourite bass store that has lots and lots of EBMM gear, buy 2 basses have a little vacation.
Go home and sell 1 bass. Free vacation and airlineticket and an EBMM for a lot less dough.

 

[Sonnyonbass]

Dear France,

I would like to complain, as the French wine that I bought in my local shop is far more expensive than it is in France.

I suggest in future that all transport and import costs are negated, so that I can buy this wine at the same price that it is in the country of manufacture.

Love
Jimmy

Not quite true.
You can but that wine online for much lower prices. You can't do that with new EBMM basses or guitars for that matter.
Hell I bought pretty expensive Italian wine from an online retailer based in Denmark that was cheaper than bought in Italy.

The price difference is less with Apple stuff. But maybe that's because they have factory's all over the world. And make A LOT of stuff.

Maybe the price difference is getting a bit too much. (not that the basses aren't worth their price in Euro's) Don't get me wrong here.
But most of the time you don't pay for the service you get here in Europe haha. You have to get down on your knees and ask very politely if you can try your favourite SR. Haha.

 

[Jimmyb]

Hiwatt
Blackstar
Orange
Pete Cornish


All cost more in the US than they do in Europe. 4 names just off the top of my head.

 

[Jimmyb]

Actually, to confuse things even more, fine herrings are actually less expensive here in Sweden than in France because of the herring monopoly we have here. One big fish in a rather small pond that buys huge quantities of herrings from the manufacturer gets better prices than smaller fish in bigger ponds that buy smaller herrings..... So you should come to Sweden instead of France to buy fine herrings....

Fender has no herring agents these days here in Europe. Fender Europe sell to the herring stores in all european countries. They have a big herring room in Germany (Frankfurters?). Seem like they think that local herrings costs too much so they have a european herring office instead to keep costs down. They are the only ones that have done this up till now to my knowledge but I guess that others will follow since Europe more and more can be regarded as one grand country with EU/Euro and all that. The market is changing.

//J

Fixed it for you!

 

[Sonnyonbass]

Hahaha!

 

[TheBassGuy]

Not much a question rather than a remark.

I ordered a SR HS5 in a with a retailer here in Belgium in september. They told me then it would cost me about 1.900 to 2.000 euro's (2.700 to 2.850 dollar). When I went to pick it up by the end of november I was charged 2.300 euro's or almost 3.300 dollars!!! That's twice the price I would have payed on an American web shop. TWICE! Now I have nothing against profits and export rates and all that, but this is a bit over the top in my opinion.
I don't think I'll buy a US-made bass ever again. For that kind of money i'll buy 3 brand new MIM Fender basses. Or even better, for that kind of money I could easilly travel to the US and back to buy my bass there.

Valuable lesson learned here.

Buy your Musicman basses either second hand or in the UK. That's the only way to get a Musicman bas/guitar for a fair price... Or, as the other forum members mentioned, check basscentral.com

Arguing about the insane price differences doesn't help I'm afraid. Search the forums and you'll see that a lot of people started topics about this issue before.

 

[Hellboy]

Fixed it for you!

Thank you.

I know of the rule regarding discussing other manufacturers instruments here and I respect and agree with this rule since it´s a EB forum. But nothing was said about instruments in this case. Only that other companies has chosen another business model when it comes to selling instruments in Europe..... With that said, I have plenty of Stingrays. I have one Fender. Pre CBS Precision. Favorite? Stingray all day long, babe.

//J

 

[mixmastered]

I feel the pain for all those who pay more for their EBMM's outside the states.

I too face that problem. But I pretty much get over it by waiting for friends/relatives to return form the states and get them to purchase it for me.

 

[oli@bass]

It is a bit sad. And to make things worse, added to the much higher retail prices you'll hardly find street prices to be as low (in percentage) as in the US. E.g. in Switzerland you can be lucky if you get 10% off the suggested retail. And just as an example a 25th 5 string HH retails at 5500 USD. A DDII Big Al retailed at 4000 USD. A regular StingRay 4 HH is at 3400 USD. No wonder they are rare as hens teeth. It gets even more ridiculous for the low cost lines. A Sterling by Music Man Ray34 retails for more (1550) than a StingRay HH in the US. To me, I could understand if there was a constant upcharge for the handling, storage and (hardly existent) service. But to upcharge 2000 USD for a 25th feels just wrong.

I'm not saying that other US made instruments are not more expensive than in the US, rather that the EBMMs tend to really stick out compared to the rest of the offerings.

For a customer, it just does not make sense to have a distributor charge more for the import than it would cost a private person to fly over, buy at a shop and legally import the goods by themselves. Especially when the official option is that you have to order an instrument without trying and are obliged to buy it. It sort of negates the idea of a dealer network (which, if existent, I would like a lot).

To sum it up: I don't think it's truly EBMM's fault, but rather an unfortunate situation with distributors and dealers not living up to their promises.

 

[Big Poppa]

First off...if you were quoted a price it should be honored.

I cant explain the system that has been in place for over a hundred years. It is what the industry has. Ive tried before and now let me take a different approach.

Do you think that I would like to sell more instruments? Yes. Does it bother me that I have not sold many of the special instrument internationally due to to the huge price difference? Do I think that our stuff no longer represents a good value overseas? Am I driving a Armored van full of extra profit? All answers are yes except for the last one.

For those of you who paid $5,5000.00 for a 25th....Thank you. Thanks for the sacrifice and the faith.

The basic problem is that in the current model of distribution three entities own the inventory. The distributor buys it. First off they start with our price to them, add duty, incoming freight (about 20% ish) Each time you own the inventory you have to add a profit margin that covers your overhead and gives you a profit. Most companies overhead is around 30%. That 30% pays rent, advertising, employee payroll, employee benefits (huge in Europe)warranty, sales expenses, shipping, insurance, accounting, legal and artist relations responsibilities, damaged inventory, outdated inventory, credit risk from dealers (they go broke quite often)....Allow yourself a net profit of 10% only if you are very lucky you will make that.

Repeat the same scenario for the dealer and you will see the problem. The dealer has to protect themselves because if someone scratches the instrument in the store they are screwed...Thats why maybe the shopkeepers are so paranoid of people playing them....one scratch and they are either stuck with a shopworn bass of have to discount the profit out of it.

The system sucks. Each person in the chain thinks it does. Nobody is lighting their stoves with $100.00 bills...the cost of doing business is crazy out of control.

Fender is barely big enough to eliminate one person in the chain. Figure out how unattractive our line is to these distributors... over 120,000 instruments and they have to choose what sits in their warehouse. We sell our products in about 80 countries and there are separate inventories in each one and no consumer is happy with the choices.

I wish that I was smart enough to figure this out. So do the distributors and the dealers. The manufacturer, distributor, dealer and consumer are less than happy.

 

[Bloodfist]

To sum it up: I don't think it's truly EBMM's fault, but rather an unfortunate situation with distributors and dealers not living up to their promises.

Dang Commie Bastards!

 

[TheBassGuy]

The thing that crossed my mind is a "Dell" kinda way of selling products. No inventory, no shops that sell them (well, shops can also), but order directly from the company.

If someone orders a Dell, he goes to the site, clicks his pc into the right spec's, pays for the order, and waits for it to be build. The order is then shipped directly from the building factory in Ireland, world-wide to any given location.

Imagine, go to music-man.com, click trough the "customize your Stingray" wizard, pay with your credit card, and a few weeks/months later it the bass arrives at your doorstep!

Hmm, I've been dreaming too much, sorry

But, that is also not an option, since you would pass the distributors in the several country's that have been loyal to the brand...

 

[Big Poppa]

REb

Yeah that is one thing but understand that now you really cant ever try anything because you have lost your retail presence.

A Musical Instrument is a personal and emotional part of our life. A computer you can spec with a certain amount of memory and screen and know that you are going to be happy. With a guitar you cannot say the same.

Also there are still additional costs that dont go away

Also please consider the same distributors sell our strings too....

THis is not a problem created by our dealers and distributors...its one we all fight together.

 

[slow roasted]

First off...if you were quoted a price it should be honored.

I cant explain the system that has been in place for over a hundred years. It is what the industry has. Ive tried before and now let me take a different approach.

Do you think that I would like to sell more instruments? Yes. Does it bother me that I have not sold many of the special instrument internationally due to to the huge price difference? Do I think that our stuff no longer represents a good value overseas? Am I driving a Armored van full of extra profit? All answers are yes except for the last one.

For those of you who paid $5,5000.00 for a 25th....Thank you. Thanks for the sacrifice and the faith.

The basic problem is that in the current model of distribution three entities own the inventory. The distributor buys it. First off they start with our price to them, add duty, incoming freight (about 20% ish) Each time you own the inventory you have to add a profit margin that covers your overhead and gives you a profit. Most companies overhead is around 30%. That 30% pays rent, advertising, employee payroll, employee benefits (huge in Europe)warranty, sales expenses, shipping, insurance, accounting, legal and artist relations responsibilities, damaged inventory, outdated inventory, credit risk from dealers (they go broke quite often)....Allow yourself a net profit of 10% only if you are very lucky you will make that.

Repeat the same scenario for the dealer and you will see the problem. The dealer has to protect themselves because if someone scratches the instrument in the store they are screwed...Thats why maybe the shopkeepers are so paranoid of people playing them....one scratch and they are either stuck with a shopworn bass of have to discount the profit out of it.

The system sucks. Each person in the chain thinks it does. Nobody is lighting their stoves with $100.00 bills...the cost of doing business is crazy out of control.

Fender is barely big enough to eliminate one person in the chain. Figure out how unattractive our line is to these distributors... over 120,000 instruments and they have to choose what sits in their warehouse. We sell our products in about 80 countries and there are separate inventories in each one and no consumer is happy with the choices.

I wish that I was smart enough to figure this out. So do the distributors and the dealers. The manufacturer, distributor, dealer and consumer are less than happy.

The system does suck. And it such a beast that if anything it's probably going to get worse before it gets better. The travelling to the US and buying one to save and one to sell idea is probably the best way to go for now.

My wifes family is from Germany, and they like black currant schnapps. We can't get this in the states, so we have her relatives bring it over on vacatiion. While here, they load up on designer jeans and shoes at the outlet malls by our house, and they sell some of this stuff when they get back home to help subsidize their trip....