Music Man Vault Black Friday Deal

Is the Game Changer official dead?

Oyster38

Active member
I see that the Game Changer Guitar and Bass are no longer on the website. Does that mean the Game Changer official dead? Will there be any support?
 

JayDawg

Well-known member
Unfortunately the Game Changer was discontinued for 2018. It sucks too because I was planning on buying another one this year. I was planning on doing 3 purchases this year. Another Game Changer, A JP 6 in mystic dream w/ piezo and a Stingray 4H black with maple neck and fretboard. All 3 are now no longer available at all or available in how I wanted them. The JP 6 now comes with black hardware and the Stingray no longer comes with a standard maple neck and fretboard. An then the prices drastically increased this year on everything so as much as I hate buying used, that will be my only option for these 3 instruments.
 

Big Poppa

Well-known member
very interesting Jay cant wait for you to open your store. You just might see things from a different light.
 

Oyster38

Active member
Is EB MM not going to fill us in on the future support for Game Changers Guitars? Are we just left in the wind? Did I spend 7K on three wooden boat anchors?
 

Oyster38

Active member
Truly disappointing the the the Game Changer guitars has been discontinued and EB MM is not telling us the fate of the editing application and or the ability to use the web based editor. It seems that in the next year or two we will not be able to edit pickup configuration and the purchase of a Game Changer Guitar will look like a bad choice. EB MM Please tell me/us what we have to look forward to.
 

beej

moderator
Have you tried calling or email the customer support folks? That's the best way to get an answer.
 

Wahoonc

Well-known member
Love the GC and a big EBMM fan, but owners shouldn’t have to contact them to find out if their product that requires support to function as designed will continue to be supported. Not saying anything about future support suggests no future support, and I would be very disappointed if that were true. Kind of dropping the ball here, in my opinion.

I’m fairly certain that most, if not all, GC owners would not have purchased the guitar had it not been for the advertised switching system and assumed perpetual support. Count me in that group.

EBMM should address this question for owners.
 

Oyster38

Active member
For the last time EB MM. What is going to happen with the ability to keep Game Changer ability to edit the pickup combinations through the software?
 

JayDawg

Well-known member
For the last time EB MM. What is going to happen with the ability to keep Game Changer ability to edit the pickup combinations through the software?

Hey, lighten up a bit. Maybe because the decision was made to discontinue the Game Changer this year, they are still discussing what to do internally and aren’t able to answer you yet. Have you also tried calling customer service? I’m bummed too that the Game Changer was discontinued but I also understand sometimes a business needs to make decisions to cut things not making enough profit and concentrate on the things that are.
 

Oyster38

Active member
Hey, lighten up a bit. Maybe because the decision was made to discontinue the Game Changer this year, they are still discussing what to do internally and aren’t able to answer you yet. Have you also tried calling customer service? I’m bummed too that the Game Changer was discontinued but I also understand sometimes a business needs to make decisions to cut things not making enough profit and concentrate on the things that are.

I do not mean to seem heavy but the lack of response for EB MM is frustrating and it does seem like they monitor the site so that means they are choosing to leave me/us in the dark. Ending production of the Game Changer guitars is their right. That means no new guitars get built. But I fear not having the software support going forward. I fear in the near future we will not be able to experiment with the pickup changing ability of the guitar which is the WHOLE reason the buy the guitar. They have abandoned the iphone/ipad app. We have lost that functionality. The have abandoned all internet browsers expect one. It seems slow and fickle. How long before they abandoned Chrome. It looks to me that within the year or so that the guitar with not be able to be reprogramed. What will I/we do then? I wonder if they actually considered this before they started selling the guitar. I do feel like I may have just wasted six thousands plus dollars. And I do feel like that is something to get worked up about. And agin their lack of response is frustrating to someone who owns three Game Changers and other MM guitars. I think I/we deserve better that the mushroom treatment.
 

JayDawg

Well-known member
I understand your frustration and am wondering about the same thing as well. While I can’t speak for Music Man, the Guitar should always have the factory default settings on it. So with the app, they can’t just leave it status the same and people use everything that is currently available to this point?
 

beej

moderator
Does your guitar work now? Good. You're demanding answers for something that may or may not be an issue down the road, but isn't currently.

I'm guessing JayDawg is right, and they're working out a strategy. But I certainly wouldn't expect them to support all browsers into the future. Many of the web apps I use on a regular basis don't support the latest web browsers. Ask the banking folks what browsers the commercial banking apps run on ... the ones I use only support IE and don't work in Chrome or FF.

So, please just relax and enjoy your instrument. I'm sure there will be an answer at some point. But, if you're really desperate for one now, you're best to actually contact them directly.
 

Edmang

Well-known member
Hopefully things continue to work work with the chrome browser. If it eventually breaks, maybe they can open source the code so the user community will be able to support it
 

A.J.

Moderator
The web app functions and the instruments have full capabilities right now.

In the event that the web app ceases to function the instruments still function independent of the web app (you are able to program any of the 20+ pickup settings to any position on the switches). With that said, we will do our best to continue to support the web app and all of the abilities of the game changer.
 

Wahoonc

Well-known member
The web app functions and the instruments have full capabilities right now.

In the event that the web app ceases to function the instruments still function independent of the web app (you are able to program any of the 20+ pickup settings to any position on the switches). With that said, we will do our best to continue to support the web app and all of the abilities of the game changer.

20+ pickup settings is nowhere near the millions advertised. I hope you do continue to support the web app. If it stops, you have lost at least one customer going forward. I love the GC, but that would be a deal breaker.

It’s fine to make business decisions and stop making a product, but it’s not okay to market a product that specifically depends on continued support and then stop supporting the product.
 

beej

moderator
Please stop making threats.

MM has NOT said they weren't supporting the GC. If and when that happens, you can certainly sound off. But everything IS currently supported, so this is all just negativity.
 

Wahoonc

Well-known member
Please stop making threats.

MM has NOT said they weren't supporting the GC. If and when that happens, you can certainly sound off. But everything IS currently supported, so this is all just negativity.

Nothing I said was a threat. I'm allowed to express how I feel about my investment in the GC and the company's lack of response to our inquiries. If you go read my past posts, I have long been a supporter and advocate for the company and this guitar in particular. And I would have continued to be so, if someone would have responded. People have been asking this question for a long time and EBMM still hasn't said anything, except hints that we're going to have a non-supported GC in the near future. I didn't buy the guitar so I can assign the 20 z bank tones to the blade. This is a very real concern. Don't tell me what I can and can't say about that.

The only thing negative in this situation, which has really soured my opinion, is the circle-the-wagons approach (like yours above) and the silence about what we can expect. Some of us might like to make decisions about whether or not to keep the guitar. It's not "all just negativity." Do you have a GC? If not, why don't you stop making value judgments about when other people are allowed to be concerned. What would you do if a company essentially said, "look, it's okay. Your musical equipment will still be .00001 as functional as the equipment you paid for." Do you see that number? That's the math--assuming 2 million possible tones, which according to the company is a low estimate to use. Beej, your amp is going to be .00001 as functional, but don't be negative or express any concern because we haven't actually stated that it's going to happen yet--we just refuse to respond in any meaningful way to indicate otherwise. C'mon, dude. You're not talking children.

And if you want to continue down this road of being an apologist despite our concerns, trying to censor me, or ban me, delete my posts, do it. If that happens, I'll happily bid this forum and EBMM goodbye. I've bought eight EBMM guitars (seven new) in the past 3-4 years. I can spend that money elsewhere. But don't tell me that my concern about the $2500 guitar that seems destined to be limited to 20 random tones on the z bank instead of the infinitely programmable tones that I paid for is "all just negativity." The lack of company response, and your chastising my and others concern in particular, is rubbing me the wrong way. I do not appreciate it at all.
 

Cenobyte

Well-known member
I work in web based software development and I'm kind of thinking the best bet would be to create a final stand alone application (using the current web based app/plug-in as a base) that runs on both windows 7/10 and mac OSX up to High Sierra (forget about supporting ipads and iphones, they change every year). The logic being that the Win/Mac app will always work, via a virtual machine if needed, even 10 years from now.

I don't think it would cost too much money to make that happen as the application already exists and could be ported pretty easily. Users would then have a "final" physical app they can download and keep for when the browser version finally ceases to function due to browser updates etc. I understand there are costs involved, but it seems like the only logical solution for supporting the full range of this product and it's hardware moving forward. I'm honestly mostly concerned with the plugin potentially disappearing from chromes database over the next few years, otherwise if it sticks around you could likely use older browser emulation to get the app working.

I just picked a GC up from a sale last weekend, it was sitting in the store for about 5 years, I know because I've been eyeballing it the whole time... picked it up at a silly price tbh. ;)
 
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Wahoonc

Well-known member
I work in web based software development and I'm kind of thinking the best bet would be to create a final stand alone application (using the current web based app/plug-in as a base) that runs on both windows 7/10 and mac OSX up to High Sierra . I don't think it would cost too much money to make that happen as the application already exists and could be ported pretty easily. Users would then have a "final" physical app they can download and keep for when the browser version finally ceases to function due to browser updates etc. I understand there are costs involved, but it seems like the only logical solution for supporting the full range of this product and it's hardware moving forward.

I just picked one up from a sale, it was sitting in the store for about 5 years, I know because I've been eyeballing it the whole time... picked it up at a silly price tbh. ;)

A stand alone is what I have been expecting for the last year or so. It does make sense. The guitar is no longer in production, so no need to blackbox or be so guarded about the software. If they're still worried about it, can link the download to the guitar's registration in the web app--while it's still functional. It would solve a lot of problems and go a long way to making GC owners feel better. I would actually prefer that--would have always preferred that, but the web app has always worked fine for me so I had no issues with it. Now, however, I'm starting to feel like I have a very expensive guitar that will cease to have functionality except the random presets in the z bank.
 
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