is VINTAGE all that???

[shredderbetter]

i never tought of it that way ,only the nice ones survive!! how many Ibanez rg's will be around in 30 years??How many in landfills ?is a crap guitar always crap even if it's old??I think so??Actually the technology as a whole is changing~ my nephew was bitching about his amp,I told him when i started the solidstate was the only affordable amp for a kid~ play one of those and see how bad things CAN sound!modelers and other amps are way better soundwise for practice amps but weird how tube technology from 50+ years ago is still cutting edge and sought after for tone???Will digital ever catch up to tube for sound??As for the guitars NO DOUBT new seems the way to go,not saying some old isn't nice but as stated it's what works for the person in the long run.

 

[roburado]

And how many of us are on a quest to nail a tone that was around before we were born? Look at all the boutique amp builders...everything is described in terms of Black Face, Tweed, Marshall, Dumble...etc. At least in the amp arena, it seems like the big guys are innovating more than the smaller guys. The reverse seems true about guitars.

To a certain degree I am sometimes looking for that "old" clean tone. Distortion is generally another matter. I've been looking for something modern in that realm, and the way I define "modern" has been evolving over the past two decades. Generally, JP has been finding the tones I've always hoped to find. However, these days, whereas he's finding his tones in Mesa amps, I think that Egnater amps will give me what I'm hearing in my head these days.

i never tought of it that way ,only the nice ones survive!! how many Ibanez rg's will be around in 30 years??How many in landfills ?is a crap guitar always crap even if it's old??I think so??Actually the technology as a whole is changing~ my nephew was bitching about his amp,I told him when i started the solidstate was the only affordable amp for a kid~ play one of those and see how bad things CAN sound!modelers and other amps are way better soundwise for practice amps but weird how tube technology from 50+ years ago is still cutting edge and sought after for tone???Will digital ever catch up to tube for sound??As for the guitars NO DOUBT new seems the way to go,not saying some old isn't nice but as stated it's what works for the person in the long run.

Yeah, my first two amps were solid state. Now, I would only consider a modeler as a practice tool or something to use as a recording expedient. For me, only tubes have the right feel and sound under ideal conditions (i.e., one has enough money; one has enough space; one has tolerant enough neighbors).

 

[Pablo]

I would venture to say that vintage guitars, from a simple mathematical point of view, are vastly inferior to modern guitars like EBMMs, Suhrs and Andersons. The tolerances of production using CNC machines are simply MUCH tighter than what is possible working with a pin router and eyesight. For even newer technical advances, the precision a the fret job using a PLEK machine (like Suhr does) is something no human could ever rival.

However, extreme precision is only part of the equation, or there wouldn't be those precious magical old axes out there, like that 62 Tele I played a few years back - man, that was almost a religious experience... With this said I've played a '58 Strat that sounded worse than most Squires, but still had a price tag that would buy a nice car (not in Denmark though - over here a standard Miata clocks in just above $80.000!!!).

So in short: No, vintage isn't "better", but there are some really nice old guitars out there... usually equipped with divorce-inducing price tags

Moreover, though being a Strat guy at heart, I wouldn't ever spring for those old '50's or '60's things. Why? Well, for the simple reason that I value advances made in the last 20 odd years and don't want an instrument without them. I am talking about stuff like locking tuners, stable trems, slicker nuts (not a Ball-type joke...), huge frets, flatter radii etc..

Cheers

Eske

 

[robelinda2]

whats worse than the vintage craze is the relic craze, yesterday i played 2 brand new relic strats at 8 grand each, both played like a busted arse. i wanted to lower the action so i went to use the truss rod wheel...oh yeah it aint there, bloody strats! Having said that, yes I did own a relic strat that I sold over a year ago once I played an AL, I bought 4 AL's and had change left over.

 

[spychocyco]

I don't get the whole relic thing either. When I drop serious money on a new guitar I want it to look like a brand new guitar that I dropped serious money on. Let me do all the dinging, scratching and staining myself.

Of course, I also get aggravated when I go to buy a pair of jeans and can only find ones that look like they've gone through three owners who worked in garages, too, so go figure.

 

[meenahga]

My silo.s an 89. Old for a musicman. It is THE best built guitar i,ve ever played. I hav,nt played a new one, but if they are better built then my silo, i want one. But i,ll still keep my "VINTAGE"silo.

I strongly agree. I too own an '89 Silo, along with 7 other EBMM, all newer, another Silo, a SS, an ASS, a Morse, a Sub, and 2 20th Silos. My '89 is built just as well as the others. BP hit the nail on the head with his analogy.

 

[phatduckk]

one of my good buddies is a vintage guy. he's in a pretty popular touring punk band and has picked up some great deals on the road... ya know, those pawn shop deals you've heard about but never seen for yourself.

anyways - i had his 65 SG Junior at my house cuz he likes the work my repair guy does and ask if i could take it to him. so this gave me a chance to play his 65 for a while and it was definitely a nice guitar but it didnt give me GAS for a vintage SG at all. 20 minutes later i was browsing the web and staring at pics of new MM90 equipped guitars.

different strokes for different folks. Dan's into vintage and appreciates my new axe's whereas I'm into new instruments but can appreciate the good players in his stable as well.

 

[Astrofreq]

We guitarists in general are an odd lot...it sometimes seems we only want to go backward, not forward.

Very true. There was a thread not too long ago about the Gibson Robot guitar and I couldn't believe how people were bashing it. We could at least try it out before we shun the technology.

I get the whole relic thing and why it has such huge appeal. Old beat up guitars look cool because they look like they have a history to them. The problem for me is, if you are buying a guitar that was intentionally beat up, then you are a total poser.

When are BFR Relics coming out?

 

[Pittman75]

Its like saying do you like a really worn in shoe or workboot or do you like to start fresh? SOme old workboots are not very good some are like house shoes.

hahaha....what?

 

[Norrin Radd]

I don't get the whole relic thing either. When I drop serious money on a new guitar I want it to look like a brand new guitar that I dropped serious money on. Let me do all the dinging, scratching and staining myself.

I think I do understand the "relic" craze. I picked up a CS 70's Strat in the store the other the day that was "extreme relic'd". I tell ya - it sounded and played great! Now, usually I don't dig new Fenders - too stiff generally - and the older reissue stuff - forget about it with all that laquer on the neck! But the more broken in stuff I have found not too shabby. And this particular one I played was really superb - the back of the neck had been worn raw! That being said - had I had the $$ to buy it, I probably would have ordered a new AL and a new Orange 40th anniversary OR50 and matching anniversary 4x12 cab.

 

[ba2m]

what about vintage ebmm and the new ones.. anyone found it different?(tonewise/playability)

 

[robelinda2]

all i know is my most recent 2007 AL's play better than my old 1994 AL. Locking tuners, silent circuit, comp nut, and 13 years more knowledge makes the new ones better for mine.

 

[whitestrat]

Very true. There was a thread not too long ago about the Gibson Robot guitar and I couldn't believe how people were bashing it. We could at least try it out before we shun the technology.

I actually appreciate the Robot Guitar technology. Apparently it's a bit on the slow side though.

...but I digress.

I'm not a vintage or Relic fan. I have a relic, which I bought soley for the purpose of owning those pickups. They blardy can't be bought unless you buy that guitar, and I couldn't find one in NOS. So that left me with no choice.

But I must admit, I've played really vintage guitars, and those that aged well, maintained well, all kept their magic. I tried a few 60s and 70s pieces which were horrible. I don't know what justifies the 20k price tag on those. But there were one or 2 that stood out. Like this nice Sunburst 59' I tried the other day (we're talking strats here). That one had SERIOUS mojo... it was like the notes rang out even before I plucked the string. Really cool player!

After trying a few pieces with magic, those factory fresh relics honestly feel fake. Some are still nice, but fake.

I'd take a brand new EBMM anyday...

 

[Astrofreq]

I'm just glad to see all those pics of Tom on your page Rob. That rules.

 

[SteveB]

I think you have to look at the particular company's trend over time. Have they improved their product over time, or have they cut costs to improve their profitability at the expense of quality?

In the first case, I'll take their latest and greatest. In the second case, I'll be holding out for the vintage stuff.

I do have a hard time understanding the desire to own old guitars which had primitive hardware compared to today's, and weren't easily adjustable to be playable, when you can get something like a Music Man that just makes playing so much more enjoyable.

I'd rather play a fresh from the factory BFR Petrucci than a '54 Strat. I like to think the industry has learned something about design and ergonomics in the last 54 years. Heaven help us if that's not the case.

 

[whitestrat]

I like to think the industry has learned something about design and ergonomics in the last 54 years. Heaven help us if that's not the case.

I hate to say it, but while some of the industry have done so, I think a huge part of the market still hangs on to the old traditional stuff. Looking at an old Fender 59, and a brand new American Standard, I think it's pretty much status quo. But they did go thru the evolution of the strat, just that I think they couldn't improve on a design already so advanced for its time, and I was actually surprised how EBMM could make a strat like guitar, and still have it better than the original. There's no way a SS with SSS config will be inferior to a strat. Comparing it with the likes of Suhrs, D'Pergos, DeTemples and even Tylers, I'm not sure what the appeal is in these boutique makers when they charge more than an EBMM, but are not better made.

I just wish EBMM featured the SS in nice boutique woods though... or at least a nice flame maple neck.

 

[marantz1300]

if ebmm were to build 6 bolt relics.would there be any takers?

 

[pjc812]

No. I'm proud my JP6 is 4 years old and looks like it should still have the hang tags on it.

 

[Tone?]

I think the whole relic thing is pretty silly and the vintage thing up to a point.

What i mean by up to a point is that, I personally would not buy a guitar as an investment. I see it as an instrument and nothing else. Which is special to me. Guitars should be PLAYED.

On the other hand, guitars and all instruments get better with more playing/age. A well played guitar will change over the years, NO doubt.
Take a EBMM that was bought 15 years ago an well played and most of the time it will sound better than a fresh new one.
Of course this is all subjective, but me personally i think their is a HUGE difference.

Guitars CHANGE over the years. IMHO.
The more you play em the better they get. IMHO.

 

[ivanmihaljevic]

The more you play em the better they get. IMHO.

Actually, the more you play them, the better YOU get! That's for sure

Of course, I also get aggravated when I go to buy a pair of jeans and can only find ones that look like they've gone through three owners who worked in garages, too, so go figure.

I don't like relic'd guitars, but I love "relic'd" jeans