Issues with Nitro lack of AXIS BFR Purple (2023) ?

[vincentm77]

Hi everyone,

Music Man released a superb BFR Axis in Purple a few months ago.
A feature of the guitar is that it has a Nitrocellulose Lacquer.

Has anybody here bought this guitar ?
Any issue with the nitro lack ? I know it is a sensitive lacquer, that may react with some material it comes in contact with...
I have heared of one case of this guitar (Axis BFR Nitro lack) where the lack has reacted in contact with the guitar case...

Has anybody experienced any issue with Music man Nitro lack ?

Best,
Vincent

​

 

[DrKev]

Most people here will have no experience of Music Man lacquer finishes because Music Man stopped using lacquer back in 1987.

We have known for more than half a century that nitro lacquers can react in contact with certain materials. With guitars, almost all of this is a reaction to some kinds of rubber, almost always on guitar stands, though rubber of some guitar cables and straps, can cause damage too. Leather straps in prolonged contact can also cause issues. Also, insect repellants, deodorants, and sun screen can really mess up a finish in a hurry! Nitro finishes reacting with case materials would be a major industry-wide issue and a very common problem, but that's not the case (excuse the pun). Because of that I recommend for now that we take anecdotal reports of reactions with case materials with a cautious pinch of salt.

If there is an issue and it's clearly not due to the other much more likely things, Music Man will let people know about it and make it right.

 

[vincentm77]

Great, thank you DrKev for the reply.

 

[yngvai]

My apologies for digging up an old thread, but I have some experience here as I own this guitar. It’s an amazing instrument, but I just can’t get along with the nitro finish.

I’ve owned this guitar since new, I think I got it in April of 2023. The finish on mine is extremely fragile To the point where I can put deep scratches in it with my finger nail. The clear coat where my arm rests has worn through. The white binding has turned yellow and the front is already checking. When I first got the guitar the finish was very tack, I could see my fingerprints in it if I touched it. The store I bought this from advised me to leave it for a month or so to cure a bit more. That did help quite a bit.

I do play it every day, but I take very good care of it and it lives in the case when not in use. It’s never been in direct sunlight and it’s kept in a temperature controlled environment.

Like I said, it’s otherwise an amazing guitar. I’m actually starting to like the worn look of the finish. It does add a vibe.

Another strange thing about this guitar is that the neck is noticeably thinner than my 2020 trans amber Axis. The contour near the neck heel also feels different.

 

[fbecir]

Like I said, it’s otherwise an amazing guitar. I’m actually starting to like the worn look of the finish. It does add a vibe.

Another strange thing about this guitar is that the neck is noticeably thinner than my 2020 trans amber Axis. The contour near the neck heel also feels different.

Hello

Now, when somebody buys a guitar with a nitro finish, he is expecting that the guitar will "relic". That's part of the game. If you want to keep a clean finish, poly is your friend !
The necks are hand finished thus two Music Man necks are never the same.

 

[tbonesullivan]

I honesty do not understand the ongoing obsession with nitrocellulose. Everyone says "oh well it gives better sound etc etc etc", and forget that the reason nitro became popular in the first place was one thing: You only have to wait 15-30 minutes between coats. It was designed in 1921 to use on cars by DuPont as the first spray on paint, and everyone started using it. It was not chosen for any other reason than increased production, and It was also relatively cheap, though an environmental nightmare.

It also does not "cure", it pretty much "dries" as the solvents evaporate, which can take a while. It never "cures" and will readily return to a liquid if exposed to the right solvents. This is also why it will react with certain substances. It also continues to out-gas and break down over time, which is why it becomes thinner, starts to check/crack, etc.

One thing that people always seem to forget is that it is often just the TOPCOAT that is nitrocellulose. During the 50s and 60s, Fender would pretty much dye all bodies yellow, and then slap on a body sealer called "Fullerplast" that was pretty much plastic. Then over that it would get the final finish such as sunburst, which is why the woodgrain can't easily be seen on those older guitars. The color coats and metallic finishes used by Gibson and Fender were also often acrylic in nature, so even with a Nitro top coat, the undercoats are not nitro. This is why you often see the topcoat worn away on vintage guitars, but once they reach the acrylic or fullerplast, that's about it, as they are very durable.

 

[yngvai]

Hello

Now, when somebody buys a guitar with a nitro finish, he is expecting that the guitar will "relic". That's part of the game. If you want to keep a clean finish, poly is your friend !
The necks are hand finished thus two Music Man necks are never the same.

Yeah, I understand that now. It’s my first guitar with a nitro finish guitar, so I didn’t really know what I was getting into. I’ve always wanted a purple Axis, and then this popped up, so I had to have it.

I was a bit upset at first when it started to wear, but I actually really like the vintage vibe of it now. It’s broken in, like an old baseball glove. I do get the appeal of it.

I wouldn’t buy a nitro guitar with the intention of keeping it pristine for ever.

My older poly Axis is still in near perfect condition after four years of playing.

 

[fbecir]

Yeah, I understand that now. It’s my first guitar with a nitro finish guitar, so I didn’t really know what I was getting into. I’ve always wanted a purple Axis, and then this popped up, so I had to have it.

I was a bit upset at first when it started to wear, but I actually really like the vintage vibe of it now. It’s broken in, like an old baseball glove. I do get the appeal of it.

I wouldn’t buy a nitro guitar with the intention of keeping it pristine for ever.

My older poly Axis is still in near perfect condition after four years of playing.

I'm happy that you like your guitars.
But be careful : even with poly, a good played guitar will show some wear. My 23 years old Morse shows quite some wear ... but of course nobody can beat Steve Morse and his #1 :


yes, the guy plays so much that he is able to wear a poly finish

 

[Iperfungus]

People pays thousands of euros/dollars to own "ruined" instruments they call "relic"...

Me too...

 

[yngvai]

People pays thousands of euros/dollars to own "ruined" instruments they call "relic"...

Me too...

This is true, haha. Guitars to me are like cars, once I get the first scratch or dent, I stop worrying about it.

 

[yngvai]

I'm happy that you like your guitars.
But be careful : even with poly, a good played guitar will show some wear. My 23 years old Morse shows quite some wear ... but of course nobody can beat Steve Morse and his #1 :
View attachment 44318

yes, the guy plays so much that he is able to wear a poly finish

Wow! I remember him saying it’s been through like ten refret jobs.

That purple Axis is going to be worn to the bare wood in another year or two.

 

[Iperfungus]

This is true, haha. Guitars to me are like cars, once I get the first scratch or dent, I stop worrying about it.

Brother.

 

[Iperfungus]

Wow! I remember him saying it’s been through like ten refret jobs.

That purple Axis is going to be worn to the bare wood in another year or two.

Don't care.
That's nitro and nitro worn.
Play her as there were no tomorrow and her will worn in a way that you love her even more.

 

[DrKev]

I think Morse's #1 is nitro top coat (which is what Music Man used 1985 - 1987). The wear pattern and yellowing seem pretty clearly nitro lacquer to me.

I have a poly finish on the MIJ strat I played 1000 gigs with. It does not wear like that. The only place it's worn from contact is some light belt buckle rash.

FWIW...

Lacquer: 1985 -1987
Conversion Varnish: 1987 -1994
Polyester: 1994 oon

 

[fbecir]

Oh thanks Kevin

I did not know that the old Music Man guitars were finished with lacquer !
What is exactly "Conversion Varnish" ?

 

[DrKev]

What is exactly "Conversion Varnish" ?

It's a two-part finish, kind of like an epoxy in that it has a lacquer and a hardener which chemically converts the lacquer to a hard material. Gives a finish that's more flexible but also harder and more durable than nitro lacquers. Was kind of expensive though.

What Is Conversion Varnish? | The Cabinet Door Store

Conversion varnish is a protective coating applied to wooden surfaces such as floors and furniture. Find more information on varnish at The Cabinet Door Store.

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