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bovinehost

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Punctuation vigilante heads stateside
Tue Mar 30,11:02 AM ET

By Paul Majendie

LONDON (Reuters) - In the land of Shakespeare, punctuation faced extinction until writer Lynne Truss came to the rescue with a clutch of carefully placed commas and colons.

Taking a zero tolerance approach to grammatical lapses, she wrote a sprightly guide to punctuation, "Eats, shoots and leaves", that has sold more than half a million copies in Britain alone and soared to the top of bestseller lists.

Now, honing her crusading zeal over misplaced apostrophes, Truss is off to the United States to ensure transatlantic tidiness reigns supreme on the printed page.

She fervently believes the Internet, e-mails and text messaging have widened people's horizons, but treat punctuation like unnecessary linguistic baggage.

Truss, who says she is a stickler for accuracy and not an obsessive pedant, thinks the English have lost touch with the language they invented and gave to the world.

But she will not cast the first stone at the Americans, often mocked by the haughty British for bastardising their mother tongue.

"American education seems to take grammar quite seriously," she told Reuters before leaving on a 10-city, coast-to-coast tour of North America for the launch of the book there next month.

"My sense of it is that British English is worse actually than American English. I think Americans really like rules. I think we in Britain are very slapdash and don't care if we are right or wrong."


PUNCTUATION CAMPAIGN

But Hollywood has certainly enraged Truss, a feisty columnist and broadcaster who would happily reach for her marker pen to put in punctuation where Tinseltown offers none.

"What about that film Two Weeks Notice? Where was the apostrophe?" she asks, enraged that there is no apostrophe at the end of Weeks.

The rise of the manufactured British pop band Hear'Say had her apoplectic with grammatical rage and she rejoiced when "the group thankfully folded within 18 months".

"Valentine's Day was a terrible time for me too," she said. "Only half the shops put the apostrophe in. That was upsetting."

Now it looks like her punctuation campaign could go global.

"The book is out in the Gulf states. There is a separate edition in India. It has done well in Australia, New Zealand and South Africa. It does seem to be touching a chord," she said.

"It is an international issue. The Internet is having a big effect on the way people write in every language."

Truss insists that punctuation vigilantes are not nerds who should really get out more.

"We are like the little boy in The Sixth Sense who can see dead people, except that we can see dead punctuation," she said.

For, as she explains in "Eats, Shoots and Leaves", published in Britain by Profile Books, a misplaced comma can indeed be deadly.

The book's title stems from the joke about a panda who walks into a cafe. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots into the air.

"Why?" asks the confused waiter as the panda heads for the exit. The animal produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.

"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."

The waiter turns to the relevant entry and all is revealed.

"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."
 

basspastor

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I've invited a quest

I think you need to keep your invited quest off of this forum.:) it will bring the walls down.
Not only is punctuation aweful, the grammar, and spelling is, well you know... :) I enjoyed reading the article.
Have a blessed day
 

midopa

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Mwahaha!

I'm glad to see someone finally taking some action against this evil anti-grammar movement!

You know, it's really amusing to read people's profiles and writings on things like AOL Instant Messenger and Xanga.com. Punctuation is completely ignored, numbers and symbols replace the alphabet, and homonyms are misused (ex. "your gay"). It's frustrating, isn't it? I know college seniors who fail to write in correct English!

Heh... Anyway, here endeth my rant.

:p
 

oldbluebassman

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As a Brit I feel I must comment. English is being continually undermined by poor education standards and email, however the real scourge is the abreviated slang used in text messaging, which is now finding it's way into email, internet forums and other forms of written communication.

In some cases it is not so much that US English has been bastardised but rather the opposite as UK English has evolved away from the English of William Shakespeare.

While we're on the subject there is also inappropriate use of Capital Letters, in fact the whole subject of grammar education has gone to the dogs.

Anyone know where I can join the punctuation police? :)
 

lowstrung

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I Thought this was a bass forum. I did not know I had to pass English 101 to pertisipate. Should have known there was a hidden bug here. Always is, there every where. Always some one thinks they are smarter and better. If I wasn't busy making a living the hard way, I could spend more time pounding out proper gramer and spelling. If it was that important to the internet, you would think they would add a spell-checker to the browser. If you ever herd someone speaking proper english like shakesphere then you can't understand half what they say, but hey I won't take this personly. If you can't cypher my post or reply's let me know so I don't waste my time here. I'm sure I can find a forum where they let common folk in. I guess I can also go trade my Ernie Ball gear in for something more common. Something simple that I can spell so I can ask for it over the counter. Like ESP or something. Wouldn't wana get something to complicated, and not be able to figure out how to use it.
 

bovinehost

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The complaint was mine, not anyone from the Ernie Ball organization. I should think that was clear enough, but then perhaps it's my clear English and proper spelling that would be throwing you off the trail.

Mostly, it is a joke. I have no illusions about improving the communications skills of young America. It's going down the tubes and it hardly matters at all what I think.

No one need gather up their petticoats and flounce off to ESP Central. I simply thought it would be nice if our lines of communication remained clear and easy to read.

And again, while it should have been exceptionally clear that not one single person from EB had anything at all to say about lack of communication skills, let me say it again: the complaint was mine and mine alone.

Flame me, I don't give a sh1t.
 

lowstrung

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Ok Bovine,

I didn’t take this as a personal attack. I thought the trail was clear. Between the thread “rules” and “invited guest” it was made clear that some who have the gift of higher education think that every one else should conform to their expectations. There should be rules, moderation, proper grammar, and correct spelling. Well I guess you have a good point. Spell it out clearly so you can understand it. So far I haven’t had that problem understanding the posts. Maybe it’s because most everyone types on the fly on a forum.
Now I have to go back and check my grammar and spelling before I post. I suppose I could call my secretary in to check my grammar and spelling before I post, but now you’re talking about someone getting their petticoat gathered up. That’s ok. Clean it up. Make it pristine, and see how many post the forum gets.
 

midopa

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I don't think it's a matter of superiority. I don't think encouraging the proper use of grammar is a way to label others as inferior.

The point that I want to drive home is that, without proper grammar, communication becomes increasingly inefficient. Sure, one can type without the proper use of grammar and still be understood, but it takes longer and those reading have to pause occasionally to figure out where the discussion or post has turned to.

What bothers me most is misspelled words and homonyms, such as "your" and "you're". These are K-12 school things and should be known by now. These really throw me off.

Another example is "to bad". What does "to bad" mean? Does that mean that someone or something is heading towards a place called "bad"? Or did the author intend to say "too bad", as in "it's a pity"?

Errors like this can be ignored initially, but the more frequent these things become, the more annoying and confusing things get. Honestly, mistakes such as these can really throw people off and perhaps large portions of the post itself.

I want to encourage everyone to do their best in posting, not type as if slamming down random keys on the keyboard.

Here endeth my rant. ;)
 

lowstrung

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Midopa,

I get your point. I thought that in a forum it was about the subject that the forum was originally conceived. To me much of the written text says allot about the author. The flavor of his “life and times” so to speak. Down here were I live we say “ya’ll” In California you might say “you guys” In Australia they probably say “mate”. Half the things we say down here you probably wouldn’t understand. Especially being in a Tex-Mex rich environment. This doesn’t mean that what people say in their native slang doesn’t mean as much as when said in proper English. I for one enjoy the different styles of grammar in use on this forum. Everyone has their own unique style that starts to shine through.
I don’t take offence to what Bovine said or you for that matter. I just feel that if you want perfect grammar then you would be more apt to find it in the classical music forum than in the Ernie Ball Bass Equipment forum. To judge one on his or her ability to spell correctly and write in perfect grammar shows intolerance. I think it’s grand that you have such an extraordinary grasp of the English language. A lot of people I know have not the luxury of a fine education such as you. Some have handicaps like dyslexia such as me. To make matters worse. They maybe left handed in right handed world. The only thing they wanted to do is learn to play the bass or enjoy music the best they can. Maybe to play half as well as guys like you, Bovine, and a host of other fine bass players on this forum. I think you would be surprised to find out what I do for a living and how much money I make with the limited education I have.
I’m not judging any body here, but it is just my humble opinion that with a forum were you are reading a post from someone as young as a 13yr. old who only wants to be part of the Ernie Ball team. You are expecting too much with your rules and proper grammar.
Owning my own business I work with guys that can hardly speak English, and I rub elbows with some of the richest folks in South Texas and Northern Mexico. They are all the same to me whether they can spell or not.
Sorry for the run-on sentences.
 

bovinehost

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I enjoy unique styles - if you approach the subject from an oblique angle, it looks different. That, no doubt about it, is GOOD in all kinds of ways. I certainly have no objection to playing with language, making it stand up and do what YOU want it to do, and for that matter, I was born in southern Mississippi and you should hear my family.

It takes my mother about ten minutes to say, "Hi, honey." And what education I have, I worked for. Sometimes hard, sometimes not so hard, but I admit that I am proud of my ability to express myself....it wasn't always like this.

To paraphrase Kurt Vonnegut, if you can't explain what you mean to a 12 year old, you're probably a charlatan. So there is, to me, a beauty in saying what you mean.

It doesn't have to wear a tuxedo or have a certain accent or flavor - language is GOOD and healthy and says so much about the person speaking.

I was just hoping, I suppose, for more THOUGHT about what is said here sometimes. I should have kept my fat mouth shut, that's for sure.

And I wasn't attacking anyone in particular, really. When this forum first started, there were only a handful of us, and I suppose we were an "older" crowd and what the hell, I got used to it. Well, wake up, I say to myself - things change and this is one of those things.

It is, in the end, about playing bass and buying basses and comparing our experiences. I was only hoping for more....

...fill in the blank here.

Peace, brothers.

Jack
 

basspastor

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I've invited a quest

I must agree with you because I think you are correct in what you are saying.
There are educated and uneducated and then there are .........fill in the blanks. Most uneducated can't help being the way they are, however; the ..................fill in the blanks can.
nuf said
 

LeftyLB

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Guys,

Let's put this to bed now once and for all.

Let us agree to disagree.

Everyone has a different level of education and the seemingly most iliterate person can be the greatest mathematician in the world. No one would knowingly attack a fellow member of the forum deliberately in this respect.

In my opinion this is purely down to "texting" English creeping into email and chatroom postings. The younger members of the forum use this language as an everyday part of life now.

My only concern is that with some of the posts, I genuinely don't get the meaning of the thread and have to read it over and over again to try to grasp it.

Then again, half the time I cannot understand a group of UK teenagers when they are talking together in a group. I am sure it was the same for our parents when we were teenagers. language changes continually throughout the generation.

Let us remember that this forum is for MUSICMAN BASSES, so let us return to that subject matter and leave pictures of "whores" for other forums.

Let us return to peace and harmony and the way of Ernie.

Liam
 

hands 5

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Re: I've invited a quest

basspastor said:
I must agree with you because I think you are correct in what you are saying.
There are educated and uneducated and then there are .........fill in the blanks. Most uneducated can't help being the way they are, however; the ..................fill in the blanks can.
nuf said
YOU WOULD BE SUPRISE !.Anyway IMO(which doesn't count for much :D )this was one of the better threads that I've seen since I became a member of this forum.I think every one who participated in this discussion all had legit concerns,and disagreements but the thing I was glad to see that there was someone here who understood there is a bigger picture to life than bass playing,now before someone gets in a fluff I understand that this section is basically dedicated to the discussion of the instrument whether you play an EB product or not but I've been in this business for most of my life (music)and there have been a few occasions where the leader of our group had to submit a proposal to try to land us a real good gig i.e a good corporate gig .well he was told to submit a proposal to the company to discuss what was needed to accomadate the members of the group .
Well needless to say the he(the leader of the band at that time) wrote of what he thought was a simple proposal, however he did not take into consideration that proper dictation and grammar would be critical.Well we didn't get the gig,and the sad part of this situation was that it had nothing to do with our talent we were judge on a not well written proposal.Obviously not all gigs are not like this (thank god !) but I must say that not only did I learn a crucial lesson about bussiness, but I also learn that you may never know how crucial it is to know when to use proper grammar because people do have illconcieve perceptions of people who they assume can't write.
As I was told by a teacher who taught english for 30 years( my mother) reading,and writing go hand-n-hand.
Now this doesn't mean you have to but I would like Bovine for brining something to light that most of us take for granted.
I ask my fellow bass brothers to please not only work hard at your skill,and craft but also if you can find the time to make ourselves as educated as possible on the way we write,and speak.As with pratice.It would only make you better.

Peace, Hands V
 
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