Jack had a question... I had an answer

[phatduckk]

Jack posed a question on thread in some other forum which i answered there. however, i figured this was pretty important info so I thought I'd share it with you guys a well

So what would you say are the big differences between a pre-EB and a current model?

one major difference is the pre eb ones are old. also, before making cookies the Keebler Elves used to work at Music Man and added some magic to the wood. some humans refer to this magic as "mojo" but the truth is its centuries old elven magic.

when Ernie Ball purchased the company the elves were all laid off and, after much deliberation by the tribal elders, the elves decided to start making cookies. The Keebler Elf magic (aka "mojo") that once used to go into the bass making process is now reponsible for cookie deliciousness.

Rumor has it that stuffing a Keebler cookie in the control cavity of a new SR4 will imbue it with the missing Keebler magic thus giving it the "mojo" of a pre EB 'Ray

 

[Colin]

well there you go...

 

[phatduckk]

i mean, i thought it was funny

 

[Dr Stankface]

AH!!!!



That's funny

 

[bovinehost]

Much better than the rant I almost always have to trot out into the light.

 

[bovinehost]

A kid in Manchester played a Stingray and found it, shall we say, lacking. It didn't compare favorably to his Squier. That's what the thread was really about.

Now usually I just ignore this sort of thing because I don't feel like spending the time, but tonight I said, "Screw it, someone needs to address this."

So here was my response on Talkbass, and I hope it helped:


...you'll notice that I'm the guy who said, a few posts back, something along the lines of, "Well, keep the Squier then."

And I meant it. If a certain bass makes you happy, it doesn't matter what it costs or what other people think of it - it's you who plays it, not them. A few years back, a drummer friend who wanted to take up some bass to be smarter (God bless him) had a Squier which was just in horrible (or, you know, horroble) shape; it needed strings, a setup, some cleaning and possibly a smaller miracle.

I worked on it for a while - it was a P - and played it for a week or two and really fell in love with the thing after I got it back into shape.

Most basses that aren't absolute pieces of crap can be coaxed into playing pretty well. Some need more coaxing than others, to be sure.

Anyway, I say all this by way of telling you that I'm not a snob about Squiers and I wouldn't be the least bit ashamed to play one in public. In fact, I have.

Now that we have that out of the way, I am an undeniable enthusiast of Music Man basses. I have a bit of a personal connection, you might say, but even if I didn't, I'd still play them. Not important, though. What is maybe more important is that you realize that Music Man basses leave the factory after being setup and checked and re-checked by human beings who also happen to be players. They know what they're doing.

So let's leave some room for a bad day and say that 99% of all Music Man instruments leave the factory in damned fine playing shape.

The problem is that the guys in the factory cannot follow the instruments around. (The drive time would be prohibitive.)

So the bass you played - was it new? Was it used? Did it sit for a long time in a hot truck? A slow ship? Did the humidity change quite a bit? Was it abused? Did the people in the shop have a look at it? Do you know enough about setups to ascertain what the problem was? Were the strings old? A million things could have been the issue, but having seen the factory in question and how it works, I can tell you that those basses don't leave San Luis Obispo in anything but prime shape.

Here's an example for you. I took possession of a particular bass in San Luis Obispo a few years ago. Factory fresh! It was beautifully adjusted. Perfect. But I had to fly back to Texas and so the EBMM crew volunteered to send it me via FedEx. Cool.

Less than a week later, the bass was once again in my hot little hands, but guess what? Due to rather extreme environmental changes along the way, it was out of whack. The action was too high, there was too much relief. Well, guess what? One of the great things about EBMM instruments is that they're a breeze to adjust, if you have just a little bit of information about how that stuff works.

I turned the truss rod wheel about 1/4 of a turn, waited an hour for the wood to react and - bam - back to perfection.

What you played is a quality instrument, but nothing is perfect without a little maintenance along the way. If you played one of MY basses, I'm sure you'd see a big difference in your enjoyment.

Whew! I almost never type that much, but I wanted to try to give you some insight. Hope that helps.

______________________________


Jeez, I feel like a grade school teacher sometimes, but I guess people really don't understand the basic deal. Whew.

Jack

 

[phatduckk]

ya i dont get the "older is better" thing. i understand some companies have become some crazy machine spitting out inventory and skimping way too many corners. but MM is not one of those companies.

im gonna go buy myself a vintage, 1983, tv tomorrow due to its warmer picture quality. WTF???!!!

 

[Ken Baker]

Jeez, I feel like a grade school teacher sometimes, but I guess people really don't understand the basic deal. Whew.

No, they generally don't understand. What they don't understand is what we have learned - that a musical instrument made of wood is a live, moving thing.

Most, if not all, of us have wooden items around the house. Chairs, tables, flooring, and what not. Hell, even the house usually. What we don't see, unless we look for it, is the wood moving with environmental changes. Got a solid wood table? Measure it across the grain after the humidity has been down for a while, then again when the humidity is higher. Got a solid wood floor (real solid wood or parquet)? Look under a baseboard and you'll see a gap between the edge of the wood and the wall, because without that gap the floor would buckle when humidity goes up.

The point I'm trying to make is that most people look at wooden items as nice stable things that never change. This includes wooden instruments, at least until the movement makes things ugly. Or until a floor buckles.

So yeah, Jack, you're a teacher sometimes. Most of us who have been around the block a couple times with these stringed things that we love are teachers as well. Not grade school either, because while this seems elementary to you, it isn't elementary to the kid in Manchester. Last I checked, "The Expansion Rates in Wood" is not a subject taught in the schools. Nobody teaches these things except maybe Sam Maloof and others who deal in wood. And while it would be nice to see some mention of the weather in an instrument's owner's manual, you and I both know that it wouldn't be read. So maybe if a salesperson mentioned it, the idea might soak in a little. Nope - ain't gonna happen.

So it falls to those who are more experienced in such things. And we'll have to mention it a lot. And we'll get tired of mentioning it a lot because we feel like a broken record. It's kinda like raising a kid, where you have to repeat yourself at least 2,000 times before the child finally gets it. And then FORgets it.

Damn, aren't I philosophical tonight.

Ken...

 

[phatduckk]

BTW: thats old long ass answer jack. bless you for your keyboard patience.

and i just discovered that if you play long enough with the keebler cookies shoved in the control cavity the cookie actually warms up and its like eating a frash baked batch. thats gonna be a rad trick to pull off during my next gig

 

[phatduckk]

actually in high school they thought us about wood in health class. they went over all the expansion and shrinkage stuff.

LoL

 

[bovinehost]

ya i dont get the "older is better" thing.

Hopefully, the wife does.

 

[Ken Baker]

actually in high school they thought us about wood in health class. they went over all the expansion and shrinkage stuff.

LoL

Seriously? In health class? How did that dovetail into health?

<snicker> I said dovetail.

Ken...

 

[phatduckk]

Seriously? In health class? How did that dovetail into health?

<snicker> I said dovetail.

Ken...

they mentioned that wood can shrink in a swimming pool and there was some explanation regarding the expansion right before u wake up.

 

[Ken Baker]

they mentioned that wood can shrink in a swimming pool and there was some explanation regarding the expansion right before u wake up.

'Scuse me while I remove this hook from my mouth.

Damned young'uns.

Ken...

 

[bassmonkey]

A kid in Manchester played a Stingray and found it, shall we say, lacking.

Damn Limey!

 

[sloshep]

So, if I eat Keebler cookies will that help my playing? Will the Keebler "mojo " make me a groove master? So far the only change I can see it has thickened my mid section up like those goopy thick finishes of old

 

[PzoLover]

elfspeak

this is very interesting info for folks like me who bump into old bald guys at L&M on a Friday afternoon whilst I'm in scoping the latest EBMM shipment in stock and hear the line while I'm boasting about my SR5s that "the new MM basses aren't as good as the old ones ... my usual deflection is something along the same lines as about cars and motorcycles ... old stuff vs. new stuff ... "whatever floats yer boat", but I ain't trading any of my SR5s for any Leo days SR4and when it comes to mojo and vintage stuff, I'm pretty much in love with something that was hand carved in Bernie Ricco's old shop 26 yrs ago, her name is Ruby and she kicks
no offence to anyone meant but waaay too much of this mojo speak is purely subjective, else there'd be no market for new EBMMs and MB amps cuz the old stuff would always be so much better.

/PL

 

[phatduckk]

So, if I eat Keebler cookies will that help my playing? Will the Keebler "mojo " make me a groove master?

exactly.

So far the only change I can see it has thickened my mid section up like those goopy thick finishes of old

you gotta give if youre gonna take. nobody said the magic was calorie free

 

[MrMusashi]

hehe.. eat lots of it and it will bring your bass up in a "funkier" position

MrM

 

[AnthonyD]

Old vs. New...

Doesn't apply here...

I get vintage - I really do - when it applies to a product that has become a shell of it's former self. A product that has it's best days behind it whether it be, for example, regulation or profit-margin that causes the fundamental change in product.

We're not talking "they don't make 'em like they used to" relative to what's missing or what's been lost - in EBMM I see what's been improved...

Truss rod wheel... Neck-joint... Electronics... Improved access to battery... CNC and the Buffing machines... Compensated nut...

The BONGO!!!

Improvements to the product, not improvements to the bottom-line by cutting corners.

You're darn right they don't make them like they used to!