Help! JP12 action too high

[volumae]

Hi there. I just need help with this one topic. I've bought a jp12 in November last year and the first thing I did with it was to take it to a luthier for some service since the guitar took a long journey from Kansas, USA to Buenos Aires, Argentina.
So when I first picked it up I notice the strings feel way too high. That was one of the reasons why I send to a luthier but now, after almost a year of constant play I still feel the string action is too high. I measured with a ruler and they are like half a centimeter away from the fretboard in the 12th fret.
I called my luthier back again and he told me to adjust the truss rod up to my needs but when I do this the strings start to fret and sound super steely.

I can provide pictures if necessary.

 

[joshua_helm]

Adjust it in very small increments... It's very sensitive... You have to find a happy medium for the truss rod and saddle(or bridge) height..

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[DrKev]

Wow. 5 mm would be too high for a classical guitar. 2 mm over the 12th fret would be more normal for electric guitars, and most JP guitar players including JP himself prefer it lower than that. (In fact JPs action is so low that some fret buzz is unavoidable, o don't be too concerned by a little buzz).

Without seeing the guitar in front of me it's difficult to know what your luthier did and what needs to be corrected. Truss rod adjustments should not change the action by more than ~ 0.5 mm (usually less). In this case your saddles, and maybe the bridge, will need to be adjusted.

Do you have a photograph of the bridge please?

 

[volumae]

Here I have some pictures, let me know if they are of any use.

Thanks!

 

[volumae]

Actually, here's some more.

 

[DrKev]

Sadly, not a lot of use (even high quality photos are no substitute for having the guitar in front of a professional, or actual accurate measurements).

BUT, everything looks substantially correct, certainly nothing is horribly wrong and the bridge is close to ideal.

I do not see string height of 5mm. The string height is a measurement of the gap between top of the 12th fret and the bottom of the string. It is very difficult to accurately judge from a photograph but that does not look to be anywhere near 5mm and I would say you are close to normal.

If you can't fix this yourself, you should bring it to your luthier.

 

[sanderhermans]

Sadly, not a lot of use (even high quality photos are no substitute for having the guitar in front of a professional, or actual accurate measurements).

BUT, everything looks substantially correct, certainly nothing is horribly wrong and the bridge is close to ideal.

I do not see string height of 5mm. The string height is a measurement of the gap between top of the 12th fret and the bottom of the string. It is very difficult to accurately judge from a photograph but that does not look to be anywhere near 5mm and I would say you are close to normal.

If you can't fix this yourself, you should bring it to your luthier.

Exactly what i was thinking....

 

[Monster212]

looking at those pictures it looks like its ok, but like others have said with out having it in hand cant say for sure. the trem looks like its level also.. just a idea maybe its just the brand of strings or gauge you are using that gives it a different feel? if you are unsure take it to a tech to look at.. or check youtube for some great videos that will guide you on how to check a guitar and give a simple setup...

 

[volumae]

I mean I also have an Epiphone SG and the strings are a lot lower there. Maybe this are just the right measurements for a floating bridge guitar and I'm simply not used to it. I alredy took it to a tech and came back like not too many months ago so I suppose it's ok. The strings are '09 which I've been told are the strings the guitar came set up for.

Thanks everyone!

 

[Lou]

First make sure the neck relief is ok. Once you get that then you should get the trem level. Looks to me like it is slightly raised. It will take some time to get the bridge where you want it while retuning. You might need to lower saddles too. Every guitar is different. This one looks close.

 

[ksandvik]

The thing with floating tremolos is that unless you replace strings one at a time, it's tough to keep the right angle when replacing all strings (you need to set something between that keeps the right angle.) Don't know if this was your case but it's good to know in future.

 

[gurtejsingh]

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Actually, here's some more.

Your last picture shows the bridge is probably not exactly parallel with the body (I can see the back of the bridge raised up). Ideally, it should be exactly parallel to the body to be able to function well. Currently you may experience your guitar going out of tune with the periodic use of the tremolo. Would recommend you adjust the springs at the back and tighten them to bring the bridge down to level. Again, as DrKev rightly said, it's not something terribly wrong, but it will help you lower the action a bit by getting it level.

As already pointed out, JP's are awesome guitars, and to set it up right, you need to give it some time and love . I've had my JP for almost 2 years now, and I spend a good amount of time setting it up myself (yes, I have tried Luthiers), and pay very close attention to cleaning, action, string gauge, bridge level, saddle height etc. Every little detail matters here in case you want to get the max out of this guitar. And yes, even I did not get it right the first time and I am probably still learning. JP's are capable of having incredibly low action, but that obviously comes with a little bit of fret buzz. At the end of the day, all that matters is that you should feel comfortable playing and hearing what the guitar sounds like

Would recommend you read out the setup guide on the EBMM website and follow it step by step. If it still does not help, take it to a good luthier and let them have a look.

Hope this helps!

 

[volumae]

Currently you may experience your guitar going out of tune with the periodic use of the tremolo.

That is very accurate! If I use the tremolo bar too much I go out of tune! Actually, the more I use it, the less out out tune I go, it's something really weird, for instance, I would pick the guitar up one day and use the trem a bit and go out of tune in some strings very quickly, then re-tune and after a few minutes of playing I no longer go out tune with extensive whammy bar usage.

Also, the first thing I did with it was to take it to a very good luthier for a proper set up and came out like this. They told me to adjust the truss rod but I feel this is not the right solution since it's like... temporary. I mean if I lower the strings via truss rod I would get some lower action with some buzz but they'd be way up again the next day!

I am currently reading the guide you suggested me. I'm not quite sure if I get what it says there but it does inspire fear, I don't wanna break anything. There's no 'send the guitar back to factory' where I live.

But hey! Thanks for the data, I'll work towards a super-low action setting

 

[ksandvik]

That is very accurate! If I use the tremolo bar too much I go out of tune! Actually, the more I use it, the less out out tune I go, it's something really weird, for instance, I would pick the guitar up one day and use the trem a bit and go out of tune in some strings very quickly, then re-tune and after a few minutes of playing I no longer go out tune with extensive whammy bar usage.)

Less out of tune when using strings for a while? Aren't we just talking about the pre-stretching of strings that you need to do when you put in a new set of strings?

 

[volumae]

Yeah, I they kinda warm up so they have more tuning stability as I play

 

[DrKev]

If I use the tremolo bar too much I go out of tune!

Actually, that happens to almost everyone and is neither a symptom or cause of your high string problem. Tremolo and tuning stability is a friction question, a tiny amount of lubrication in the nut slots is usually immediately helpful. Do a google search for tremolo lubrication, it's a common thing, you'll find it no time at all.

They told me to adjust the truss rod but I feel this is not the right solution since it's like... temporary. I mean if I lower the strings via truss rod I would get some lower action with some buzz but they'd be way up again the next day!

Yes, it *IS* temporary, and that's why the truss rod is adjustable - so it can be adjusted whenever needed. Once a guitar is setup and the tuned, the bridge and/or saddles will not change on their own. Any change in action is therefore *only* due to changes in the neck relief. These changes are usually seasonal (happens over weeks or months) and related to temperature and humidity. A truss rod adjustment is the correct remedy.

However, if the changes are extreme and over a short duration you have a bigger and more serious problem with the guitar neck. Way up again the next day? Not normal!

Once again, ALL of these responses here, no matter how well-intentioned, are only guessing and *nobody* can accurately diagnose this without seeing the guitar in person. And you don't have the necessary skills to do this yourself (because we are still here discussing it a week later). My best advice...

Take the guitar to your luthier.

 

[Etudica]

Also, the first thing I did with it was to take it to a very good luthier for a proper set up and came out like this.

If I got my JP back from a "very good" luthier looking like that I'd never take it back there again. From what I can tell from your pictures your bridge angle is definitely a bit high. Should be parallel to body. Get that sorted first by adjusting the claw-to-body screws in the back (in your case, tightening them further into the body). Retune after adjusting, check bridge, and continue if necessary. If you go too far, just back the screws out some.

If truss adjustment is needed, you may have to readjust the trem spring screws again depending on the amount of the adjustment.

Once neck and bridge are level and happy, don't be afraid to drop the saddles a little lower if the action still isn't where you'd like it. You'll have to retune between each saddle adjustment, then do a final check to make sure the bridge angle hasn't moved too much. It's all one big balancing act.

Like others have mentioned, its tough to say for sure what is needed without seeing the guitar in person. These JPs are very simple to work on. Just take your time with it.