Help! JP6 Free truss nut?

[gurtejsingh]

As DrKev rightly said, this is a scenario where I have run out of relief, and just tried placing a scale with its long edge on the fretboard vertically, and I do see very little, but extra space around the 7-12th fret compared to no space on the higher frets. And EBMM did confirm that the nut can go all the way loose. It just means that you have run out of room to add relief.

I dont think adding moisture is the key here. I came from a very dry place (after almost 6 months), with very little humidity, to a fairly rainy weather back at home. I had the action fairly low over there and there seemed to be no buzzing anywhere. Right now there is considerable buzzing, right from the open string to the 7-9the frets, with the bridge above the guitar body, and even the low E saddle maxed out. The guitar seems to plays fine beyond the 7-9th frets. And my first string sounds like a sitar when played hard.

I am thinking of moving to a heavier gauge and try it as a last option before showing it too a luthier (I don't think I have very good luthiers around me here). I play half step down and have been using a Hybrid Slinky gauge (9's to 11's), so I dont know for sure whether there is less tension to cause this. I have always had this setup for strings.

 

[gurtejsingh]

Also, I dont know if you have already seen my other thread, the guitar case lock was broken and opened by TSA when I came back from the US. I don't know if that has to do with anything. Probably too much pressure on top of the case?

 

[PaoloGilberto]

can you post some pics with the bridge, neck - some ruler to check the relief ?
if you have the tools measure string height at 1st fret, 12th fret ?
are you experienced with setting up a guitar?

I have a very low setup on my JP 7, sure there is buzz , but not really through the speakers ...barely noticeable in some cases
9's gauge a tunned down a half step may cause serious buzz even with higher action setup
have you tried with headphones? can you hear seroius buzz using headphones? or you hear the "acoustic" buzz cause the amp/processor is not high enough in volume to cover the buzz of an unplugged guitar for ex

 

[gurtejsingh]

can you post some pics with the bridge, neck - some ruler to check the relief ?
if you have the tools measure string height at 1st fret, 12th fret ?
are you experienced with setting up a guitar?

I have a very low setup on my JP 7, sure there is buzz , but not really through the speakers ...barely noticeable in some cases
9's gauge a tunned down a half step may cause serious buzz even with higher action setup
have you tried with headphones? can you hear seroius buzz using headphones? or you hear the "acoustic" buzz cause the amp/processor is not high enough in volume to cover the buzz of an unplugged guitar for ex

Sure, I'm putting up some pics which I clicked just now. Pardon the photography, it gets pretty awkward holding the guitar and clicking at the same time. I don't really have tools to measure accurately, but have a scale which should give some idea to you. I've taken heights at the first fret, 12th and the 24th so you should have an idea. There is also a pic of the bridge.

As you notice from the pics:
1. The action is pretty high, otherwise I have buzzing everywhere (even on open strings)
2. The bridge is raised quite high and is not flush with the body. Again same reason
3. The low E saddle is almost touching the cover, which is not recommended.

I am not trained in guitar setup, but have had this baby for over an year, and I have set it up many times to my comfort of playing.

Right now, the buzz is minimal due to the high action, but if I lower it even a little, I start getting a lot of buzz with the open strings. Of course, I don't hear the buzz in headphones, but the open string buzz causing tone issues (muddy sound) in distortion and clean, and palm muting does really have the punch its supposed to have.

I know that this bad boy can do much better! It's one of the finest pieces of equipment that I have ever seen and played.

Thank you again.

 

[PaoloGilberto]

from what I can see in the pics the distance from the top of the 12th fret to the bottom of the string (this is the corect way to measure) is around 2mm.
which is high but not exaggerated.
try to check neck relief - holding the string pressed both at 1st and 12th fret. is there any space between the top of the 7th fret for ex and the bottom of the string? of the string touches the fret?
I will send a pic when I get back home from work with some basic setup instructions from stewmac.
as I said my JP7 setup is very low - 1.2 mm at 12th fret for low B and 1 mm at 12th for high E
the string buzz is normal when unplugged but once you crank up the amp vol or whatever you use for playing you should not be able to hear any buzz through the speakers except maybe the case when you heavy pick or strum /palm mute
check this with headphones...you said "Of course, I don't hear the buzz in headphones" - !!! so that should give us a clue about it, it might be normal buzz you hear without headphones
I intentionally left the truss rod out for a moment to see if the guitar is setup correctly...if yes then you can think about truss rod IMO and check for a solution with the truss rod.
I had JP100 D Sterling with the same truss rod "symptoms" as you describe but the neck was pretty straight and with a regular setup not too low everything was great

 

[gurtejsingh]

Yes, you are correct, the action is around 2mm at the 12th fret, which as you said is high. You are right that its not very very high, but on this guitar, even a little high hurts, since you know what this guitar can do What's your action at the 12th fret for low E?. My high E is around 1.5mm, which is higher than yours.

I checked the relief by pressing the 1st Fret and the 15th Fret, and press the 7th Fret, I do see very minimal relief, but NOT enough to slide in a business card. Its a good sign I think. The guitar has some relief atleast.

Thank you so much for helping me set this up. Looking forward to see your instructions.

 

[mikeller]

I mentioned this earlier and you also mentioned it try heavier higher tension strings for a week or so and let it set. Tighten the truss to the point where there is contact only. Do some internet search on which brand strings have higher tension and just go up one gauge from what you normally use and tune to standard. It's a $5 gamble

 

[PaoloGilberto]

I mentioned this earlier and you also mentioned it try heavier higher tension strings for a week or so and let it set. Tighten the truss to the point where there is contact only. Do some internet search on which brand strings have higher tension and just go up one gauge from what you normally use and tune to standard. It's a $5 gamble

+1 heavier gauge like 11's or at least 10's if you tune a step of half down!
see the link bellow to my Drive with the settings instructions I was telling you about and 2 pics with my setup
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7bzN-lM42byYVY2UllVX3ZjOEk&authuser=0

 

[gurtejsingh]

Thanks Mikeller for reminding me again. I've just been holding back I guess about changing them, and I thought that since I've always had 9's it should work.

Thanks Paolo for sharing the files, I did have a look and did finally change to a higher gauge strings. I am now using a Slinky Top Heavy bottom gauge (10 - 52), and I do see some improvement in the neck, but I think its too early to say anything.

One question I have is, I know you mentioned that you have quite a low action, waented to ask you, what does that do to your tone? Both distorted and clean (demo videos?). I seem to always get a bit of "twang" in my distortion tone if I keep my action lower than usual with some buzz only when played acoustic.

Also, I love that string action gauge that you have there! Links to buy it please? does it ship internationally?

Thanks again!

 

[Etudica]

One question I have is, I know you mentioned that you have quite a low action, waented to ask you, what does that do to your tone? Both distorted and clean (demo videos?).

My JPs are set super low too (can't remember measurements, but there is noticeable buzz when not plugged in). I pick extremely lightly though. Tone sounds normal through an amp, even artificial harmonics sustain nicely with my really low action. Only thing is the piezo will suffer if picked heavy. Small trade off - just learn to control your picking when using piezo.

That reminds me - when I saw DT last spring JPs piezo tone sounded horrible on Finally Free... buzzing like a mofo! Didn't seem to bother him. I guess he prefers awesome action over a pristine piezo tone also

 

[DrKev]

That reminds me - when I saw DT last spring JPs piezo tone sounded horrible on Finally Free... buzzing like a mofo! Didn't seem to bother him. I guess he prefers awesome action over a pristine piezo tone also

Absolutely. His buzz is often obvious when playing with a clean tone. JP's preferred action is so low that many people cannot play without significant buzz. Also note that most manufacturers don't list factory setting as low as JP would normally do, for exactly this reason. Personally, I set my Silhouette Special at 2.0 mm on the low E and I buzz like crazy on the low E and A strings. I can live with it because it's not intrusive when actually playing music, though pretty obvious when doing a setup.

Your Own Personal Fret Buzz | DrKevGuitar.com

 

[straycat113]

When the OP left the US the guitar was in fine playing condition so I would have to agree that his issues are stemming from the change in climate. I know it is a bummer, but unless it is your only guitar just put it away for now and play something else as it is not going to adjust in a week or few days. I have never been to India but is there a split climate there where you have a rainy part of the year and then a dry? I would of stated to go with the advice " Flash Gordon" gave on the homade humidifier as it does work but that is usually for 'fret sprout'. Years ago I had bought two Peavey Wolfgangs off of Ebay three months apart from very dry area's of the country- Arizona and Nevada and both came with some heavy fret sprout. I called my tech who also happens to be one of my close friends outside of the shop and knows my gear and he told me to just leave them alone for a month or so and see if it adjust to the new climate. Well sure as sh!t lol, in both cases the sprout was gone as if it was never there and I never had an issue with it ever returning. Looking at your string height though I can't imagine why you would be having any buzzing as they are basically at a medium height from the way they look in the pics. I personally like my action on the low side but need a touch of relief so it feels like the string pops back up after being fretted rather then playing a neck with strings just high enough to not hit the frets.off the frets. In the meantime look around for a good Luthier who is familiar with working on modern US guitars. If you come across someone bring the guitar in and explain the problem but feel him out to see if he seems up to snuff before handing over your guitar. A good indicator would be if he says when the rainy season comes again you may develop the same issue. I personally would wait the time (of course depending you have another guitar to play) and if nothing happens, your safest bet for a perfect fix and piece of mind would be to ship it back to EBMM. I know it will cost, but you have a high end instrument and if you can't find a good Luthier I doubt you want some shoemaker doing the work.

 

[QuietSpike]

I don't know why, but the mental image of a shoemaker tussling with an EBMM gives me the chuckles.

 

[gurtejsingh]

Spike, I know exactly what you mean. With the help of so many awesome folks here and great suggestions, I finally set it up my own way, and I put in a heavier gauge which did help in the relief. My truss wheel is still loose (I've kept it at contact), but I am hoping it will improve over the course of time.

Stray cat : Yes, the weather in India can get pretty harsh in summers, with humidity dropping quite low, and right now its just a transition period from winters to summers, which is happening via rains this year, which is quite weird. Thats another chapter of discussion I guess The pics are from when I raised the saddles and the bridge quite a bit, and it reduced most of the buzzing. My neck has a slight back bow around the 7th fret I think which caused the buzz. i did try to find a few luthiers around here, but as you said, I'd rather touch this gem myself than let some untrained luthier touch it. People don't even know about this guitar here!

DrKev : Awesome blog post, and I agree with you, JP keeps his action ridiculously low. I've seen pics here on the forum that Maddy had once posted. Needless to say you can't make it out live or in most of his videos unless he switches to the clean channel. I saw DT live in New York last year, but I don't think they played much 'clean' songs, if you know what I mean. I think you are spot on about the Guitar Setup Syndrome, and honestly it takes more than just weeks to get out of it if you stay focused on the problem and not concentrate on your music and playing.

I found one video on YouTube, which can somewhat come close to explaining what we all are talking about here. It's an old video. I am sure many may have already seen this, you can clearly hear the amount of fret buzz while he plays in this video (see around 00:30, use headphones). Notice that his picking is fairly hard as well, still the tone and the playing, godly. HOW????

Cheers guys for all the help! I would rather spend hours here reading and learning more, than take my guitar to a cheap luthier and regret it later!

Let me know what you guys think about that video.